Will NASCAR have more talent then F1 next year?

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GTP_Royalton
Look at the drivers that will race full time next year in NASCAR


  • Dario Franchitti - Indy 500 Champion, IRL Champion

  • Sam Hornish Jr - Indy 500 Champion, 2 time IRL Champion

  • Robby Gordon - 3 time Baja 1000 winner, 3 Dakar Rally stage victories, 6 SCORE International championships, 3 Cup wins, 2 CART wins

  • Jeff Gordon - 4 time Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion, multiple 24 hours of Daytona starts, 79 Cup wins

  • Jimmy Johnson - Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion

  • Juan Pablo Montoya - CART Champion, Indy 500 Champion, 7 F1 wins, 24 hours of Daytona Champion

  • Jacques Villeneuve - CART champion, Indy 500 Champion, F1 Champion

  • Scott Speed

  • Marcos Ambrose - 2 time V8 Supercar champion

  • Tony Stewart - 2 time Cup Champion, IRL Champion, multiple 24 hour of Daytona Starts

  • Casey Mears - 24 Hours of Daytona Champion

  • A.J. Allmendinger - 5 Champ Car wins

  • Patrick Carpentier

  • Dale Earnhardt Jr - Daytona 500 Champion

  • Kevin Harvick - Daytona 500 Champion, Brickyard 400 Champion

And many many more VERY talented drivers, 43 total to be exact

I think NASCAR just eclipsed Formula 1 when it comes to overall talent
 
NASCAR'll have more talent for driving a NASCAR on ovals. F1 will have more talent for driving an F1 car on circuits.

Funny, that.
 
Earth
Look at the drivers that will race full time next year in NASCAR


  • Dario Franchitti - Indy 500 Champion, IRL Champion

  • Sam Hornish Jr - Indy 500 Champion, 2 time IRL Champion

  • Robby Gordon - 3 time Baja 1000 winner, 3 Dakar Rally stage victories, 6 SCORE International championships, 3 Cup wins, 2 CART wins

  • Jeff Gordon - 4 time Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion, multiple 24 hours of Daytona starts, 79 Cup wins

  • Jimmy Johnson - Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion

  • Juan Pablo Montoya - CART Champion, Indy 500 Champion, 7 F1 wins, 24 hours of Daytona Champion - Undisputed FIA Pie eating champion

  • Jacques Villeneuve - CART champion, Indy 500 Champion, F1 Champion - F1 'moaning about why its the car and/or other peoples fault' champion

  • Scott Speed - F1 'moaning about why its the car and/or other peoples fault' runner up (narrowly beaten by JV) - come to think about it why on earth is he even on this list?

  • Marcos Ambrose - 2 time V8 Supercar champion

  • Tony Stewart - 2 time Cup Champion, IRL Champion, multiple 24 hour of Daytona Starts

  • Casey Mears - 24 Hours of Daytona Champion

  • A.J. Allmendinger - 5 Champ Car wins

  • Patrick Carpentier - Err yeah he seems great

  • Dale Earnhardt Jr - Daytona 500 Champion

  • Kevin Harvick - Daytona 500 Champion, Brickyard 400 Champion

And many many more VERY talented drivers, 43 total to be exact

I think NASCAR just eclipsed Formula 1 when it comes to overall talent
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Fixed :)

Your list has some good drivers, but lets be honest a fair amount of padding exists here to say the least.


Scaff
 
Earth
Look at the drivers that will race full time next year in NASCAR


  • Dario Franchitti - Indy 500 Champion, IRL Champion

  • Sam Hornish Jr - Indy 500 Champion, 2 time IRL Champion

  • Robby Gordon - 3 time Baja 1000 winner, 3 Dakar Rally stage victories, 6 SCORE International championships, 3 Cup wins, 2 CART wins

  • Jeff Gordon - 4 time Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion, multiple 24 hours of Daytona starts, 79 Cup wins

  • Jimmy Johnson - Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion

  • Juan Pablo Montoya - CART Champion, Indy 500 Champion, 7 F1 wins, 24 hours of Daytona Champion

  • Jacques Villeneuve - CART champion, Indy 500 Champion, F1 Champion

  • Scott Speed

  • Marcos Ambrose - 2 time V8 Supercar champion

  • Tony Stewart - 2 time Cup Champion, IRL Champion, multiple 24 hour of Daytona Starts

  • Casey Mears - 24 Hours of Daytona Champion

  • A.J. Allmendinger - 5 Champ Car wins

  • Patrick Carpentier

  • Dale Earnhardt Jr - Daytona 500 Champion

  • Kevin Harvick - Daytona 500 Champion, Brickyard 400 Champion

And many many more VERY talented drivers, 43 total to be exact

I think NASCAR just eclipsed Formula 1 when it comes to overall talent
Click to expand...

No. Never. Ever, I don't care how talented they are, but my primitive, dimly lit view of the world has lead me to consider NASCAR a Dumbass Redneck "Sport".

Loleth. Seriously.
 
Earth
Look at the drivers that will race full time next year in NASCAR


  • Dario Franchitti - Indy 500 Champion, IRL Champion

  • Sam Hornish Jr - Indy 500 Champion, 2 time IRL Champion

  • Robby Gordon - 3 time Baja 1000 winner, 3 Dakar Rally stage victories, 6 SCORE International championships, 3 Cup wins, 2 CART wins

  • Jeff Gordon - 4 time Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion, multiple 24 hours of Daytona starts, 79 Cup wins

  • Jimmy Johnson - Cup Champion, Daytona 500 Champion

  • Juan Pablo Montoya - CART Champion, Indy 500 Champion, 7 F1 wins, 24 hours of Daytona Champion

  • Jacques Villeneuve - CART champion, Indy 500 Champion, F1 Champion

  • Scott Speed

  • Marcos Ambrose - 2 time V8 Supercar champion

  • Tony Stewart - 2 time Cup Champion, IRL Champion, multiple 24 hour of Daytona Starts

  • Casey Mears - 24 Hours of Daytona Champion

  • A.J. Allmendinger - 5 Champ Car wins

  • Patrick Carpentier

  • Dale Earnhardt Jr - Daytona 500 Champion

  • Kevin Harvick - Daytona 500 Champion, Brickyard 400 Champion

And many many more VERY talented drivers, 43 total to be exact

I think NASCAR just eclipsed Formula 1 when it comes to overall talent
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I think it will be interesting to see the circuit racers taking on the NASCAR specialists. But as to whether this box-ticking exercise is a judge of real talent, I'm not sure. Some of the achievements are quite suspect: A.J. Allmendinger, for example, was following the green when he went to NASCAR, and I'm really not surprised that he's struggling. Robby Gordon is wasting himself: yeah, he's fun, and he's a trier, but his results are distinctly second-tier. Scott Speed doesn't deserve a place in any "talent" list, unless the topic is whingeing. Casey Mears is some way off the best in terms of Cup talent.

And has Franchitti's Cup ride been confirmed yet?
 
By the same token, you could argue F1 has 21 highly-talented drivers. 21, because we all know Sakon doesn't count. :p


Seriously though - you can't "measure" talent unless you have a spec-series running equal cars, with all kinds of tracks, and no strategy involved.

Now, when it comes to the list, the talent of some drivers is very disputable. I don't follow american motorsports (nor anything other than F1, because F1's the only thing on the air here), so I can't rate the american drivers (though I've seen Franchitti in action, and he was good), but Scott Speed isn't much of a talent, Villeneuve is the world's biggest crybaby (and F1's worst-selling singer), and Montoya... Is Montoya.



And personally, saying "NASCAR has more talent than F1" is just begging, begging for someone to answer "How much talent do you need to drive in circles?"
 
Metar
By the same token, you could argue F1 has 21 highly-talented drivers. 21, because we all know Sakon doesn't count. :p


Seriously though - you can't "measure" talent unless you have a spec-series running equal cars, with all kinds of tracks, and no strategy involved.

Now, when it comes to the list, the talent of some drivers is very disputable. I don't follow american motorsports (nor anything other than F1, because F1's the only thing on the air here), so I can't rate the american drivers (though I've seen Franchitti in action, and he was good), but Scott Speed isn't much of a talent, Villeneuve is the world's biggest crybaby (and F1's worst-selling singer), and Montoya... Is Montoya.



And personally, saying "NASCAR has more talent than F1" is just begging, begging for someone to answer "How much talent do you need to drive in circles?"
Click to expand...
Everbody keeps saying it takes not much talent driving in circles; you might think that but when you drive in circles you have to hit the brakes in each corner. I live in Bristol,Tn/Va where Bristol Motor Speedway is located If you don't know the track it's the worlds fastest 1/2 mile oval average lap time is about 15-16 seconds the track record is 128.708 mph which Ryan Newman turnd in a lap of 14.908 seconds in March 2003.So yes I think that going in circles does take talent.
 
opelgt1969
Everbody keeps saying it takes not much talent driving in circles; you might think that but when you drive in circles you have to hit the brakes in each corner. I live in Bristol,Tn/Va where Bristol Motor Speedway is located If you don't know the track it's the worlds fastest 1/2 mile oval average lap time is about 15-16 seconds the track record is 128.708 mph which Ryan Newman turnd in a lap of 14.908 seconds in March 2003.So yes I think that going in circles does take talent.
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pointvb2vk7zl5.gif

He wasn't saying NASCAR didn't require skill. He was saying the thread title is essentially a self-bait for someone else to start going off on how NASCAR doesn't require skill.
 
Keichi Tsuchiya
No. Never. Ever, I don't care how talented they are, but my primitive, dimly lit view of the world has lead me to consider NASCAR a Dumbass Redneck "Sport".

Loleth. Seriously.
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Wow. Suddenly, many people on this board are dumbass rednecks? Is that it?
Might want to watch your mouth about other sports. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a dumbass redneck sport.

Of course, you probably think it's easy to do what these guys do as well....
 
Roo
NASCAR'll have more talent for driving a NASCAR on ovals. F1 will have more talent for driving an F1 car on circuits.
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This is about overall talent. Pretty much everyone in F1 comes from an openwheel background, F3000 etc, but NASCAR is far more diverse. You got guys with a rally background, dirt/short track track background, openwheel background, Motorcross backgrounds, sports cars background you name it it's in NASCAR.

GilesGuthrie
And has Franchitti's Cup ride been confirmed yet?
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It's been all but confirmed. Chip Ganassi will release David Stremme at the end of the season in anticipation of Franchitti taking his spot.

Metar
And personally, saying "NASCAR has more talent than F1" is just begging, begging for someone to answer "How much talent do you need to drive in circles?"
Click to expand...

No, I wasn't baiting someone to bash NASCAR, as most will tell you around here I am a NASCAR supporter.

I wrote the original post because I truly think NASCAR has more overall talent then Formula 1.

Trust me, NASCAR can take so many drivers from so many backgrounds because there is 43 seats available. If NASCAR only had 22 seats available like F1 then Juan Montoya, Villeneuve, Ambrose, Speed, etc would have never got in

And if anyone believes driving a stock car on ovals is somehow easy, then let's compare Juan Montoya's first season statistics in F1 vs NASCAR

First season in F1 (17 races):
- 1 win
- 3 poles
- 5 top fives

First season in NASCAR (through 25 races)
- 1 win
- 0 poles
- 3 top fives


I've made an updated list, this does not due justice to all the other talented drivers in NASCAR, but these have the most varied background

_________________________

Robby Gordon
- 3 time Baja 1000 winner
- 3 Dakar Rally stage victories
- 6 SCORE International championships
- 3 Cup wins
- 2 CART wins

Ricky Carmichael
- 5 AMA Supercross Titles
- 500 AMA Supercross wins

James Stewart (rumor)
- AMA Supercross Champion

Mark Martin
- 35 Cup wins
- 4 time ASA champion
- 5 time IROC (International Race of Champions) Champion
- Holds record for all Time Busch Series wins (48)

Jeff Gordon
- 79 Cup wins (6th all time)
- 4 Cup championships
- 3-time Daytona 500 winner
- Race of Champions Team Championship

Tony Stewart
- 2 Cup Championships
- 32 Cup wins
- 4 IROC (International Race of Champions) wins
- IRL Champion & 3 IRL wins

Dario Franchitti
- Indy 500 Champion
- IRL Champion
- 13 CART wins
- Lost CART title tie breaker Juan Pablo Montoya in 1999 (wins 7 to 3)
- Formula Vauxhall Junior Champion

Sam Hornish Jr
- Indy 500 Champion
- 2 time IRL Champion
- 19 IRL wins

Jimmy Johnson
- Cup Champion
- Daytona 500 Champion
- 29 Cup wins
- SCORE International champion
- Race of Champions Team Championship

Juan Pablo Montoya
- CART Champion
- 10 CART wins
- Indy 500 Champion
- 7 F1 wins
- 13 F1 poles
- 24 hours of Daytona Champion
- 2 time cart Junior world champion
- F3000 Champion

Jacques Villeneuve
- CART champion
- Indy 500 Champion
- F1 Champion
- 11 F1 wins
- 13 F1 poles
- 23 F1 podiums

Scott Speed
- Red Bull Driver search winner

Marcos Ambrose
- 2 time V8 Supercar champion

Casey Mears
- 24 Hours of Daytona Champion
- 1 Cup win
- 3 Cup poles

A.J. Allmendinger
- 5 Champ Car wins

Patrick Carpentier
- Champ Car Background

Dale Earnhardt Jr
- Daytona 500 Champion
- 2 time Busch Series Champion
- 17 cup wins
 
Earth
This is about overall talent. Pretty much everyone in F1 comes from an openwheel background, F3000 etc, but NASCAR is far more diverse. You got guys with a rally background, dirt/short track track background, openwheel background, Motorcross backgrounds, sports cars background you name it it's in NASCAR.
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You ususally find guys in NASCAR and ALMS who are older, and have been through the single seater ladder and failed (Scott Speed), whose careers tapered off (Jacques Villeneuve, Patrick Carpentier) or just fancied a change (JPM, Dario Franchitti). The average driver age in F1 of the Fuji grid tomorrow is roughly 27 years 11 months, the oldest being Coulthard at 36. The average driver age in the NASCAR Nextel Cup at the Sharpie 500 (taken from Wikipedia here) is roughly 33 years 11 months, the oldest being Ricky Rudd at 51. By age 33, most F1 drivers are coming to the end of their careers in F1, so if they want to keep racing competitively, they have to look at other race series - such as NASCAR or ALMS, where it's possible to keep going successfully for many a year after (Emanuele Pirro, for example, is fighting for the ALMS title and won the Le Mans 24hrs this year at the age of 45; his last F1 race was in 1991).
 
Earth
No, I wasn't baiting someone to bash NASCAR, as most will tell you around here I am a NASCAR supporter.

I wrote the original post because I truly think NASCAR has more overall talent then Formula 1.
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I know you like NASCAR :rolleyes:

I'm just saying - it was phrased in a manner almost inviting someone who doesn't support it to bash it, turning into yet another high-profile argument involving NASCAR itself.

Earth
Trust me, NASCAR can take so many drivers from so many backgrounds because there is 43 seats available. If NASCAR only had 22 seats available like F1 then Juan Montoya, Villeneuve, Ambrose, Speed, etc would have never got in.
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Do you miss the paradox you created? On the one hand, you're stating they're talented folks (which some weren't even in their previous series'). On the other hand, you're saying they're not talented enough to get into a smaller-grid NASCAR.

If Driver Ex is truly talented, he should be able to enter a series. Otherwise, it's pointless to say he's talented, unless the problem is money.

Earth
And if anyone believes driving a stock car on ovals is somehow easy, then let's compare Juan Montoya's first season statistics in F1 vs NASCAR.

First season in F1 (17 races):
- 1 win
- 3 poles
- 5 top fives

First season in NASCAR (through 25 races)
- 1 win
- 0 poles
- 3 top fives
Click to expand...

I can see two reasons why his NASCAR season was less successful.

A) He moved to F1 after becoming CART champion - and straight into a car which was one of the fastest, with an incredibly powerful engine which was, sadly, also unreliable.

B) When you have 22 drivers and you're in a superior car, you're guaranteed to have things easier than a 40-something grid with almost-equal cars, on circuits you never practiced and cars you're not expirienced with. Not to mention his last time driving ovals (F1's Indianapolis doesn't count :p) was at least 6-7 years ago.

Scaff
He is good isn't he, just not American.

Born in Edinburgh, Scotland.

http://www.franchitti.com/driver_profile.cfm

👍

Scaff
Click to expand...

Cheers 👍

(Though I meant American Motorsports)
 
Metar
I know you like NASCAR :rolleyes:

I'm just saying - it was phrased in a manner almost inviting someone who doesn't support it to bash it, turning into yet another high-profile argument involving NASCAR itself.
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Sorry, but I'm not going to word my posts in a way to try and defer NASCAR haters. I'm not going to include a disclaimer under every post I make about NASCAR that says "Please do not post NASCAR hate messages" because there are closed minded people in this world.

Metar
Do you miss the paradox you created? On the one hand, you're stating they're talented folks (which some weren't even in their previous series'). On the other hand, you're saying they're not talented enough to get into a smaller-grid NASCAR.

If Driver Ex is truly talented, he should be able to enter a series. Otherwise, it's pointless to say he's talented, unless the problem is money.
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They're talented, but they're lack of stock car experience would not allow them to break into a smaller grid. NASCAR's large grid allows people to get a chance other motorsports do not allow. To get into Formula 1 you have to almost be brought up to race in F1 from your youth and trained to eventually race in F1 like Lewis Hamilton. For others it is extremely difficult. And how many drivers are in F1 because they are half-way decent but the main reason they are in the seat is because of their nationality? The Karkathiyan guy, Scott Speed, random Japanese drivers for the Japanese manufactures, the list goes on. Once you get out of the top 10 drivers in F1 the quality drops off dramaticly.

NASCAR stars Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kurt Busch, Mark Martin etc have shown enough talent to have raced in F1 at some point in their career, but their lack of openwheel roadracing experience hurts them but not as much as the openwheel freefall to garbage in the US. Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart would have raced in F1 at some point in their career if Openwheel racing in the US didnt fall flat on it's face, which meant Gordon and stewart headed to NASCAR. A.J. Allmendinger, the latest and greatest openwheel american superstar, left to NASCAR because the guy who finished 39th in NASCAR points made more money than the Champ Car champion Sebastian Bourdais did

Metar
I can see two reasons why his NASCAR season was less successful.

A) He moved to F1 after becoming CART champion - and straight into a car which was one of the fastest, with an incredibly powerful engine which was, sadly, also unreliable.

B) When you have 22 drivers and you're in a superior car, you're guaranteed to have things easier than a 40-something grid with almost-equal cars, on circuits you never practiced and cars you're not expirienced with. Not to mention his last time driving ovals (F1's Indianapolis doesn't count :p) was at least 6-7 years ago.
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Well, my point remains, NASCAR is not easy, oval racing is not easy, so all the claims of me trying to start a NASCAR flame war are completely false.

Sadly, there are still alot of motorsport 'fans' who will never understand or respect what it takes to drive a 850HP 3400 lb stock car with the same size tires on the front and back with little aerodynamic downforce around ovals at speeds averaging 190mph bumper to bumper and door to door with 42 other equally matched cars
 
Speaking of Open-whell talent, The Arca race has concluded. Scott Speed finished 7th and Dario Franchitti finished 17th.
 
So you’re saying Speed was only in F1 because of his nationality, but then you’re listing him as one of the good talents in NASCAR… So a no hoper in F1 is a NASCAR talent, eh? Kinda contradicting yourself there.

And you have 17 drivers in your NASCAR talent list, out of a grid of 43. So according to you less than 40% of NASCAR drivers have exceptional talent.

You then say:
Earth
Once you get out of the top 10 drivers in F1 the quality drops off dramaticly.
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So then the top 10 have exceptional talent? That’s over 45% of the grid, and this is in a sport where even you say grid slots are taken up by pay drivers. Yet, with all those wasted seats, F1 stills gets more talent per seat than NASCAR according to your numbers.
 
*McLaren*
Wow. Suddenly, many people on this board are dumbass rednecks? Is that it?
Might want to watch your mouth about other sports. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a dumbass redneck sport.

Of course, you probably think it's easy to do what these guys do as well....
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Maybe, you missed it, but I was hyperbowling :p...

I was being facetious, to each his own, and I seriously have nothing against those who love the 'sport'.
 
Earth, I agree with most of the drivers on the list except Scott speed. Now I'm not saying "he sucks" as I'm not an zealot of any motorsport, but I don't truly see him as talented unless he can aquire some top five finishes, wins and possibly a championship. Unless he can live up to his name(which I think he should be able to), I can't really see how he is considered talented, but thats just my view.
 
Meh, Quantity-wise, 43 drivers is more than, what, 28 on the grid in F1? Thus, there's more "Talent," in the agent's definition of the word, In NASCAR.

However, I don't wish to compare the merits of each series. It's a dead-end debate. like comparing Apples to Stainless.
 
Jim Prower
Meh, Quantity-wise, 43 drivers is more than, what, 28 on the grid in F1? Thus, there's more "Talent," in the agent's definition of the word, In NASCAR.

However, I don't wish to compare the merits of each series. It's a dead-end debate. like comparing Apples to Stainless.
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I totally agree. If you are a driver in NASCAR or F1, you have talent, no matter who you are! And seing that 43 is a higher figure than 22 - wich is the number of F1 drivers on the grid today - there is more talent in NASCAR than in F1!
 
Team666
I totally agree. If you are a driver in NASCAR or F1, you have talent, no matter who you are! And seing that 43 is a higher figure than 22 - wich is the number of F1 drivers on the grid today - there is more talent in NASCAR than in F1!
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So how do you judge talent, Quality or quantity?

I know which talent I prefare...
 
Stevisiov90
So how do you judge talent, Quality or quantity?

I know which talent I prefare...
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You didn´t understand what I meant?
I´m saying, that if you have the level of talent required for racing on that level - be it NASCAR, F1 or WRC, you are talented at what you do, no question about that.
Of course you can argue that there are different levels of talent within these fields, and so I would suggest a percentage measure instead.
At the same time, I don´t want to go there, since talent can be pretty subjective - should this person count or not, etc.
 
Yeah, I knew that was going to ruffle a few feathers. Glad Team666 is on my side.

What i was saying, and what he's trying to say, is that you can't compare Oranges and Aluminum by the way they taste, because they're two completely different things. You wouldn't put an Orange in a tensile stress machine, either. Aluminum is a engineering material. an Orange is food.

My point is that F1 drivers are the best in the world at Formula Racing, and NASCAR drivers are the best in the world at stock car racing. And, hey, I heard something about WRC. Those guys are the best at...rallying. That's it.

By the way, I like it all.
 
NASCRAP more talented than F1? Give me a break.

Driving fast in circles < Driving fast on circuits.
 
Jjacks
NASCRAP more talented than F1? Give me a break.
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For the sake of open-minded thinking, it would best if you didn't bring that sort of thinking here. You don't like NASCAR then thats fine, just don't say something along the lines of starting a "F1 VS. NASCAR" argument.
 
RACECAR
For the sake of open-minded thinking, it would best if you didn't bring that sort of thinking here. You don't like NASCAR then thats fine, just don't say something along the lines of starting a "F1 VS. NASCAR" argument.
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I thought I was using simple logic. Oops.

I just wanted to throw in my input. I don't believe anyone here will follow my lead.
 

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