Road Cars and True Road Cars

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First off, I did my searching like a good mod should and found nothing like this... so here it is...

I would like to discuss the difference between road cars in general and "true road cars."

What I mean by this, is...
IMO, there seems to be a divide between real road cars and road car versions of race cars.

I wanted to hear what you all thought on the various cars in question...

Both Zondas
ZZ2
Nissan r390
Toyota gt-one
TVR Speed 12
Ford GT40
Jaguar XJ220

Do you all think these are legitimate road cars or are they really just tuned down racers ?

Also, where do you draw the line between road car and true road car ?

Should the RGT or the Lotus esprit 350 be considered true road cars ?
(I say yes. :trouble: )

Take your time to answer this and give a quality post if possible. This thread just might be more important than general discussion... who knows, maybe there will be a race along these lines some time. ;)
 
Originally posted by GoKents
Both Zondas
ZZ2
Nissan r390
Toyota gt-one
TVR Speed 12
Ford GT40
Jaguar XJ220

Should the RGT or the Lotus esprit 350 be considered true road cars ?
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For those not in the know, there a big requirement for types of production-based racing cars: you have to sell a certain number of cars for "road-going" use. This process is called homologation. Depending on the racing series, you have sell a certain mumber of these cars, and the sold cars must look very similar to the racing car (another words, what appears on the race car must be on the road car!) Sometimes you have to produce 5000 similar models, sometimes you just have to make a handful of copies...it all depends on the rules.

Cars like the R390, GT-One, Speed 12, and GT40 were really racing cars first, and road cars later. The road car was influenced by what the designers wanted in the racing car.

However, I feel cars like the Zonda and XJ220 were road cars first, and their popularity and prowess made them racing cars later on. These were cars that started out as amazing road cars, and later they were racing cars designed to promote the supercar.

The ZZ II seems to be somewhere in the middle. The description in GT2 seems to give me the idea of "race it on Sunday, sell it on Monday." But despite it's light weight and incredible power, I think it was designed as a supercar that you might want to race professionaly if you had the means to do so...

The Ruf RGT is a road car. I don't think Ruf has any professional racing presence, and despite all the tuning to a certain German manufacturer's already fine product, it's still an exotic car at the end of the day.

The Lotus 350 was a lightweight road car that could be raced, for Lotus sold an all-carbon fiber version of the Esprit called the Esprit GT1 back in the mid-90's. So the Esprit 350 is a bit tamer than that. I'd file that under the category of ZZ II.
 
I believe the Speed 12 is a monster. . . It is not a race or road car it is just scary :eek:
 
but also though its not on the list such as CLK GTR the reason they made 25road cars were because the class they were participating in demanded that the model should exist as a road car at least 25ex...a lot of manufatures have done that just so they can race and let the big times role in!
 
Pupik, that was a pretty good post bud.

I would say your right in many ways. However, I want to mention this seperations I'm thinking of... check it out.
Road cars- vette, tuscan
Tuned cars- rgt, lotus 350
Super cars- jag, zonda, diablo
Production De-tuned Racecars- speed12, Gt-one, Gt1

I think the zz2 is the only problem with this list... where does it go ? I say the zz2 is the same as a super car that is tuned. Of course, truth be told, I just don't know enough about the real world cars in this case.

Note that the ZZ2 can't enter the polyphony digital cup. So I count the zz2 as a racer.

Anyway, keep it up fellas, I wanna hear more. :mad:
 
The Speed 12 wasn't a race car first.

The original concept - the 12/7 - was designed as a road car. TVR then decided to build a race car, using the 12/7 as a start point. But then the GT1 class rules were changed, rendering the Speed 12 ineligible. So, TVR went back to the drawing board and made a third version, which was designed as a road car. There is a race car based on it, detuned to 600hp and running in the British GT Championship. But the Speed 12 as in GT3 - the third genesis of the 12 - is a road car.
 
Originally posted by Famine
The Speed 12 wasn't a race car first....a road car.
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Is this how we get the TVR Cerbera Speed 12 and the TVR Speed 12; are they really two different animals?

I say you if you can't enter it in the Polyphony Cup, then it's not a road car. Kinda Sorta.
 
Yes, sort of... It went like this:

TVR 12/7 Concept (concept)
TVR 12/7 (abortive GT1 race car)
TVR Speed 12 (road car - in GT2)
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 (road car - in GT3)
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 (GT2 race car, detuned).

What's scarier is that TVR's dyno, with a rated limit of 1000hp, went to the great toolshed in the sky after an encounter with the 7.7 litre V12 in the 3rd generation one. And someone in the Prodigy owns a road car...
 
It's too bad the tvr in gt3 isn't really the top dog. It should be right there with all the best, but in my opinion it falls way short.

The fastest true road car ?
what's your opinion. ;)

1 vote for rgt.
 
Yep. But outhandled by the XJ220.

Still, that's what happens with an "800hp", 1000kg FR car... TVR guessed at 3.0s to 60mph and 250mph. No-one's stupid enough to try it.


Edit: By "yep" I mean the 12 is the fastest true road car. Just check the Rome 2 Hour times at Racing-Line.
 
I tried it in GT2 and was encountered with loads of wheel spin, have yet to get it in GT3 (only got it recentley :( )
 
The ZZ2 isn't a road car, when you read the information about the car in the car dealership it say's it's a race car witch is road legal.
 
Street cars don't have much mods and crazy exterior stylings (Hoods, Decals, Spoilers etc.).
 
The speed 12 is just insane, there is no other way to descirbe it, its pushing 1000+ hp at the flywheel and thats atleast 850hp at the rear wheels. That 850hp is put straight to the ground through a rear diff and 11 inch wide tires. There is no traction control and there is no radio. 1000kg with 1000+ hp... that power to wait ratio is just incomprehensible. Worlds fastest road car (homolgated GT-1 car) is the Dauer 962 LM. 0-100km/h (62mp/h) in 2.6 seconds. The Dauer 962 weighs 1080kg and has 730hp... now just think about the Speed 12 again... INSANE!
 
Originally posted by AP1
Street cars don't have much mods and crazy exterior stylings (Hoods, Decals, Spoilers etc.).
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Honda NSX-R has a carbon fibre bonnet (hood). McLaren F1 has a carbon fibre everything. And a spoiler - but it's a braking assist. As for outrageous spoilers, seen the Impreza/Lancer lately? Then there's the F40 and F50. And the most ridiculous spoiler ever created, on the Ford Escort RS Cosworth. All of these are road cars.
 
With the original Speed 12 the 12/7 concept, I know they built and showed off the road version first, but I'm pretty sure that Peter Wheeler said, his intentions from the start, were to produce a car eligable for FIA GT-1 racing, and that was it. The Cerbera Speed 12 pushes I think 880Bhp at the wheels and over 960 at the flywheel, not too sure on the accuracy, but both figures came from Wheeler, the 880Bhp was probably an estimation, the car does push over 960 at the flywheel though. The real figure is unkown, as Famine said, the car destroyed the dyno, and one of the cables holding the car in place snapped as well. Thats some seriouse power, the guy in the Prodigy, I forget which one it is but it's not Liam Howlett, but he paid £155,000 for it.
 
I don't know where you'd stick the ZZII. It's more still in concept stage, neither road, nor race. Since there's only one, I can't see how you could call it a road car. It's not like it's a tuned down racer, though.
 
Originally posted by TrUeNo_oF_AkInA
yeah there just tuned down road cars and they call them road cars hahaha.
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No they aren't. All the cars I mentioned were designed as road cars - the McLaren F1 included. In fact the race versions of the F1 had to be detuned to race, and were customer's cars which they had decided to race - not factory racers.

The RS Cosworth never raced anywhere, although the WRC Escort looked similar. The F40 and F50 were designed as road cars. And anyone who calls the NSX a "tuned down race car" (which is what I assume you meant) is a clot.
 
A race car made road legal would be the TS020 GT-One, a Speed 12, or a McLaren F1 do not fit that category. The CLK-GTR might fit it, but I'm not sure, all I know is that there are only a few cars like the TS020 around, the Radical SR3 is a road legal race car, but you can race ANY car, so technically you can call any car a race car. You have to find a point somewhere to draw the line, but who decides where to draw that line.
 
Just thought you guys would like to know that right now, this week in the weekly, we are putting this question to the test.

Any road car
1100kg - 1150kg
2.500 pwr limit
Any tuning to achieve the specs.
no hybrids
Single lap
Apricot hill reverse.

Go have some fun with it if you guys can keep up. :trouble:
:lol:
 
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