Open ◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Presented by ButtKicker: Feel What You've Been Missing

Discussion in 'SNAIL Racing League' started by zer05ive, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. RobbiefromBC

    RobbiefromBC

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    The is, a somewhat simpler solution to all this. Well, for the lower divisions at least. I've noticed in practice rooms throughout the week that the higher division guys are more aggressive. Mainly guys running for GTAcademy, or ex-GTA guys. This doesn't mean every single one of those guys are crazy aggressive, cause some of them aren't, but what I believe to be the problem, is that they lack situational awareness, or they 'Put on the blinders' if you will.

    There also comes a time where a higher division driver may see a hole open up and instinctively they're going to try and take it, but the driver who opened up the hole may close it mid-corner which they're entitled to do so if the passing driver doesn't have overlap. This now brings in the factor of judgement, whether or not to shoot the gap (which may close up), or wait a half second and pass cleanly and be sure in doing so.

    This could very well be the problem y'all are facing, and if it is, I encourage you upper division guys to run Monday Night Miatas once or twice, just because it throws you into a scenario where you can't drive away from slower drivers, and it forces you to be put under pressure, and race with guys who have varying skill levels. It sure has taught me a bunch... Not to mention it's great fun!

    It doesn't matter if you're fast by yourself, what matters is you being able to be fast in a group


    If this isn't the problem then just ignore me. Besides, I'm only a 16 year old chump.:tup:
     
  2. USERID_77a23

    USERID_77a23

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    Wise beyond your years :lol::cheers:
     
  3. Lessen

    Lessen

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    I did not see a yellow room last night. I may have arrived too late maybe.

    I think the key here is most importantly to remind ourselves that OLR exists AT ALL TIMES. Sometimes we simply need to reflect and put ourselves in check. I do feel we should have a true "training" room, that being yellow, in which no racing is to be held.
     
  4. FloptaStr8

    FloptaStr8

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    This is a good solution TEX (hmm, looks strangely familiar:odd:). It won't hurt anyone trying to go up. They will progressively get faster anyway and they can always practice during the week with upper divisions.
    The objective of Thursday practice is to prepare for Sunday anyway. Racing against your own is the best way for that. I also think numbers will increase with this format.
     
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  5. TomMang_68

    TomMang_68

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    Edit: You can always coordinate with some SNAILs you enjoy racing with and open a private lobby.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  6. Falango

    Falango

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    I haven't read all of the replies about practices, but I do have a few things to say about it.

    Not all of the higher division drivers are aggressive and impatient. It seems like Div1-4 are getting that label. Yes, there are some, but there are some very patient and great drivers that know how to set someone up to potentially make a mistake on their own.

    On that note, it seems like there's a divide here based on that assumption. Higher division drivers vs. Lower division drivers. We're all here to race each other in a fair manner and have fun, not to pit each other against one another as combatants.

    I think adding practice rooms on Thursday might be a good idea. When we have 3 rooms that are full, we are mixing 16 drivers from 4 divisions. On Sunday, it's not often we have 16 drivers in a room. More cars on track does bring the risk of more problems. If we split practices to 2 divisions per room, we'll likely get a turnout close to what a division turnout will be on Sunday. At the same time, 16 cars isn't a lot. It's everyones job to be more patient, more aware of whats happening around you, and more cautious. People accuse higher division drivers of being too aggressive and bully their way through, and others accuse lower division drivers of closing gaps and shutting the door. We all need to work together at this rather than calling out someone as the problem. If you're not part of the solution...........

    With that, I'd support 4 practice rooms, 2 divisions per room. I'm on the fence about handing out penalties on Thursday. We are supposed to prwctice the OLR at all times, so on that front it would be fair, but it would exhaust our stewards. If penalties were to be handed out Thursday, maybe half penalties? I'd suspect that most incidents are due to those involved being on their first lap or two on the combo.
     
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  7. DesertPenguin09

    DesertPenguin09 (Banned)

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    Exactly. For many it's the only chance they have to practice the combos with other real drivers before Sunday's official event.
     
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  8. Falango

    Falango

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    That's one reason why I'm on the fence about penalties on Thursday. Hard to penalize someone for practicing. If you walk into Sunday and make a mistake because you're not familiar with the combo, understandable.
     
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  9. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    Here's another question to ask about officially filing IRs for Thursday's practice session. How and where will penalties, if any were to be handed out, be applied?
     
  10. zer05ive

    zer05ive Premium

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    I know there are some college football fans here, so had to share this. I died laughing. Be sure to watch the encore video near the bottom too. :lol:
     
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  11. Lessen

    Lessen

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    I'm simply not in favor of IR's on Thursday at all. There any multiple reasons why but to me, it's still a practice day. Some things DO need to be tolerated as "mistakes", especially that early in the week. We need to police ourselves for this. I do agree with @FloptaStr8 in that a tweaking of the structure could very well increase Thursday turnout. A couple of the folks who have stepped into this conversation have stated they avoid Thursdays. That leads me to believe they still care about what's going on with it, but care not to partake.

    Having read through @Dragonwhisky SNAIL history post a short time ago has brought to light how much the league has evolved and grown since it's inception. Maybe it's time for a slight change? We won't know if four rooms will boost numbers if we do not give it a shot. I think it may. The Sunday series is a successful program and deserves a successful practice day.
     
  12. Falango

    Falango

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    That's definitely one thing that makes it difficult. Maybe they could be handed out as grid penalties for the Sunday races? The problem with that is there's very little time to submit, review, and apply penalties between Thursday and Sunday. At the same time, we have no way of controlling grid penalties unless we start races after Q by lining up in T1. That just adds time to our already packed schedule on Sunday. Lots of things to discuss hahaha
     
  13. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    With brutal honesty, it makes it more than difficult. Here's a couple reasons, beyond what you've pointed out, why I think filing official IRs is unworkable for practice sessions.

    There are only 2 base consequences for being penalized for infractions during Sunday racing;
    1. Reduction of points earned during Sunday Racing.
    2. Reduction of chances for Sponsor Challenge Prizes.
    The first one is risking bragging rights in relation to season championships. The second however, can rule a person out of contention for the sponsor prize with just one level 2 penalty costing them 6 points. 1 penalty point equals 1 point, of 48 total possible, towards a player's eligibility to get in the Sponsor Challenge number picking pool. It's that way by design.

    I'm still unsure there's an efficient way to encourage practices to be treated as a means to increase sportsmanship and race-craft instead of the time to show off speed. Like I said before, it will require those participating to change their mindsets.
     
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  14. Lessen

    Lessen

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    Thursday IR's would be a logistical nightmare. It doesn't need to get that complicated.

    Consider... If we started an IR program for Thursday practice that held repercussions for Sunday or the season in general, how many folks do you think will show up then?? Lets see... I can practice privately with no consequence, or risk getting penalized in the "official" room. Headcounts will drop. Folks on probation will consider passing on practice nights.

    We need to promote productive practice, not oppressive sanctions.

    The people have the power to make it clean, the leaders have the power to give us the soap.
     
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  15. Gr8_Lakes

    Gr8_Lakes Premium

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    Hey all, is there still an ROC tonight?


    To any wondering, the answer is yes.;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
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  16. Grandpa Money

    Grandpa Money

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    For me when I was D5 I would run the red room and have a good practice session , since I've been moved up to D4 , and now D3... ugh .. I don't feel that practicing in the red room is the right thing to do , so I always look for the yellow room , however the last few times in the yellow room it has not been a whole lot of fun , guys still get run over in there too. I'm to the point now that I don't really care to practice on Thursdays.

    No way would I think of joining the blue room , someone stated earlier that from D1 to D3 is a HUGE difference , I know I would get in the way , then get frustrated and just leave the room without any good practice.

    Don't get me wrong when I do happen to practice (in an open lobby during the week not on Thursdays) with the aliens most of them are great and watching the replays is very very helpful.

    If we went to a D1-D2 , D3-D4 , etc.. I for one would look forward to Thursday practice sessions again.
     
  17. FloptaStr8

    FloptaStr8

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    That's 3(me, grandpa, and TEX)!!!:cheers: What would it hurt if we declared 4 rooms for next week and give it a try?. I don't think it would hurt in any way shape or form. If it works, GREAT. If not, then no harm done.

    And no IRs...
     
  18. Falango

    Falango

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    Changing mindsets is obviously one of the first things that needs to change, but everyone knows that's more difficult to do than moving a mountain. There are so many reasons why IRs are difficult for Thursday practice. I was just throwing something out there, even though it's not likely to be feasible.

    Things would be so much easier if everyone could hold themselves responsible and be respectful to everyone.
     
  19. USERID_77a23

    USERID_77a23

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    Id be willing to try more rooms with a better division split. Over the past year I would say the numbers won't be enough to sustain more rooms but as some have said it may be enough of a change to bring some racers back to the Thursday practice. As others have said , the only thing that I think is really going to make Thursdays more enjoyable is all racers taking responsibility to race by the rules under the snail OLR.


    Edit: good call @Falango lol;)
     
  20. GTP_Vertigo

    GTP_Vertigo

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    Here is my take on practice. I've heard many apologies on practice nights. 90% of the time the #1 excuse I would get was "I'm trying to find the limits of the car". If your looking to find how hard you can push the car do it on your own time. I myself would come back to Thursday night practice if it had a better division split. I myself being in D3 have no issue running with those in D3 in a practice room as they are few that really should be D2. I'd be willing to host the D3/D4 room for next week.
     
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  21. GTP_Nail

    GTP_Nail Premium

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    I've been sitting here reading all the toing and froing about the problem with Rock Apes on Thursdays. I believe that one tends to be much more circonspect around people you know. It is much harder to dive into a nonexistant opening with the guy who you race with all the time rather than with a stranger who you may never race with again. Its human nature...so lets use it. I think that dividing practice by Divisions is a great idea because we all know most of the guys in neighboring divisions..and even more importantly we are going to race with them all one way or the other sooner rather than later.

    It brings to mind the old saw about not pooping in one's nest. Think of it as common sense mixed with self preservation (or preventative medicine):lol: let's do it...soon.

    D1/D2
    D3/D4
    D5/D6
    D7/D8


    And if you can't find your room you go up, not down, and...if you do so you should realize that the guys there are going to be faster and more concistant and try to learn how to emulate them.
     
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  22. Schmiggz

    Schmiggz

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    I agree with Tex's formula.
    D1 and D2
    D3 and D4
    D5 and D6
    D7 and D8

    And I don't support penalties either but a strong voice in the room to calm some people down, TCrash style :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
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  23. fzappa

    fzappa Premium

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    This is not a new concept. Look back over 70,000 posts ago to a post that @zer05ive made, HERE , and you will see we started running 2 practice rooms when we decided to go with 4 divisions keeping in mind what he thought the reason was. 1 room for D1 and D2 and the other room with D3 and the new D4 division. Being a practice room host, way back then, it definitely was much better to race with the racers that had, almost, the same skill level. Those were great practice rooms because we practiced. Everyone raced together and if a few fell behind we all would slow up and wait for them which is now the current idea of the yellow room. No one ran over anyone and it wasn't about winning, it was about practice. If you wanted to practice your qualifying, you did that in you own room with people with that same mindset.

    I also would suggest everyone to read this , as I think @Apmaddock had it correct. I miss his posts:)

    If a higher division racer wants to go to a lower division practice room, it should all be about doing some coaching not about building someone confidence by showing how fast they are and running up front. Drop back and race with the slower guys. Let them follow you to see the lines your taking and then drop behind them to have them feel some pressure. That builds confidence. The one who has been awesome at this is @AJKVail. He's not the fastest racer by any means but he took the time and I know a lot of you appreciated it.

    I have to say that I miss those days. I know we have a lot more racers now than we had back then and not sure if it would work now but I think it would be worth a try.

    Back then, I started running a 'division only' practice room during the week to have everyone in the division get to know one another and race with each other and learn how each other races so when Sunday night came along, we had pretty close, clean racing because we practiced with each other.

    I bailed from hosting Sunday practice because it was changed from Wed at 7pm ET on Thurs at 6ish. But I have also seen, when I do get a chance to attend Thurs, some of what people have been posting. 'Got to get that win' mentality instead of just practicing and helping your, not so fast, fellow Snails.

    I think having a IR system in place for practice is silly. There are a small amount of people that might plow through and forget to follow the OLR but the majority does and they do make mistakes and that is why there is practice.

    I attending last nights Red practice room and I seen mistakes but I also seen when those mistakes took someone out, the OLR was followed. That's what I saw and it was a pretty good practice room and hosted very well by @racingchamp30. He kept it moving, which I liked. I also watched some of the replays and did not see any 'plowing' through anyone but I did see mistakes but that's all.

    I know everyone needs to get their hot laps in during a practice race and I want to also but it wouldn't hurt to drop back and race with a slower racer on occasion.

    Remember, this is supposed to be fun and its a game not real life. There are people here that put a lot of time and effort to making Snail a great league and putting more burden on people by instituting IR's for practice nights is wrong. I think we are all adults with brains and need to police ourselves during practice and follow the GD OLR EVERYTIME not just on Sunday. If you are flying the Snail banner in your room title and you are a racer entering that room, you need to follow the Snail OLR. No if's, and's or but's. That is not hard. I suggest you follow those rules at all times not matter where you race.
     
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  24. FloptaStr8

    FloptaStr8

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    Good job, TEX ;)...(cough)
     
  25. fzappa

    fzappa Premium

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    Again, this is not a new idea as it was first implemented back in July '12. Back then it was easily done because it was only 2 practice rooms and they filled up and they were awesome practice rooms. Since then, an explosion of racers wanting to join made other things more important than practice night. Maybe we need to revisit the idea of divisional practice rooms instead of the mix bag we seem to have now.
     
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  26. TRL_Importlife

    TRL_Importlife

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    Roc room open
     
  27. CoachMK21

    CoachMK21

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    Race of Champions



    1- Aston Martin V12 Vantage '10 at Daytona Road Course (2 weeks)
    --- 535HP / PP 528 / SS tires

    2- Honda NSX -R Prototype LM Road Car '04 at Suzuka Circuit 2014 (3 weeks)
    --- 537HP / PP 560 / SS tires

    3- Nissan GT-R NISMO GT-3 '13 (or equivalent) at Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit (votes)
    --- 621HP / PP 617 / RH tires

    STARTING GRID
    1- @syntorz
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    3- @SHOCKY_WELL
    4- @kickenit4evr
    5- @CoachMK21
    6- @DMacs13
    7- @Schmiggz
    8- @Grandpa Money
    9- @USERID_77a23
    10- @socalnatv
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    14- @fizzer
    15- @LLOYDZELITE69

    Currently missing @syntorz and @LLOYDZELITE69
     
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  28. LLOYDZELITE69

    LLOYDZELITE69 Premium

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    Can't sign into PSN, sorry.
     
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  29. ExoSphere64

    ExoSphere64

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    I could keep quoting all night. This is a good conversation. I used to always attend Thursday nights but this discussion is why a don't these days. I do miss it though. I have thought about some kind of solution for quite some time. It looks like many have.

    I was thinking maybe change how Thursday nights are perceived. We all "practice" in some fashion most of the week before race night but Thursday night is an officially sponsored event and should be run under the same rules as League night. If you think about it, every single discipline involving some kind of performance requires practicing before the actual show. In sports, teams don't get together and play full games nor do symphony's play full concerts in an empty house and call it practice. Yes, dress rehearsals and scrimmages are a part of the big picture, most of the time is spent learning, memorizing and fine tuning the little details.

    My bid in this would be to have just the 3 lounges. Each lounge would run only one of the combos the entire 2 hours. This would give individual drivers the choice of what combo they would like to put the majority of their time into and switch around to meet their individual needs.

    Each lounge could be ran something like:

    20min free run. During this time, drivers can work on putting good laps together and discuss strategies with other drivers. This would be the time where more the experienced drivers (Mentors) can field questions and show highlights of the combo.

    At the end of the 20 minutes, a short sprint race, (2-4 laps depending on length of laps) to work on grid starts, first corner etiquette, and getting through the chaos of Lap One. Then one or two more laps to apply ideas learned during free run. Any more laps would just be individual battles.

    Once the sprint race is complete, return to a 20 minute free run to work out the bugs and focus on where you are making mistakes. At the end of that 20, another sprint. Repeat for the entire 2 hours. (Yes, time would be loose to accommodate different scenarios.)

    Obviously having extra hosts would facilitate everyone, including hosts, getting the chance to bounce to the room/combo the need work on. It would also be cool to have an official roster of volunteer "Mentors" that sign up, agree to certain Terms of Service/Code of Conduct and once they have an official SNAIL sponsorship, could even collect shells.

    There are some details that need to be ironed out but I just wanted to plant an idea to see if it would bear any fruit.
     
  30. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    Of everything I've seen over the last 2+ years regarding practice rooms, this is, arguably, the best idea I've seen to date. I really think it should be considered for trial runs the rest of this month. @Wolfsatz.