03-05 E46 M3, a worthy replacement for my S2K?

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Its been a while lurking through S2Ki...

-> I've been thinking replacing an S2K to reduce my monthly payment (USD$555.56/month on more than a year left on payments). Is it worth replacing?

Keep my 2004 Honda AP2 S2000? (yup, this is 'Silvie')

OR

Should I get a 2003-2005 BMW E46 M3? (will be named 'Trina')

-> The M3 that I'm looking for must have the following:

• Has to be between 2003-2006
• 6-Speed Manual (no SMG please!)
• Less than USD$20K
• Has to have either Black or Gray interior
• Around 120K miles/193K km or less

^ I also considering on purchasing any extended warranty and maintenance programs to alieviate the fear to German car ownership. I would think even with these additional packages, the M3 will cost less compared to the one I'm paying on my S2K...and I think the M3 is more of a car too.

-> But before I select the right one, I have to do these procedures:

• Do a Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI#1 and/or PPI#2) by BMW
• Check for oil leaks
• Double check rear subframe

-> Is the E46 a worthy upgrade? Are the parts costs the same? And I'm keeping it stock, yup no Jersey Shore douchebaggery on this M3.

-> Or should I consider other alternatives? Like the fun GTO 6.0/VZ Monaro or should I go back to Subaru with a '07 STi?

 

[Carlos]

Just do it, if ever regret the M3, then you know what you don't want

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

If you're willing to do expensive repairs, go for the BMW E46. E46 can be maintenance nightmares sometimes...

$500 a month on lease payments? Dahell?

 

[EDK]

I just sold my E46 325i. It was our daily driver since we bought it with 8,000 miles on it. It had over 201,000.

Maintenance became prohibitive, to the point that we could have made a $500 per month car payment this last year with the work that had to be done. It's still the best daily driver I've ever owned, and I have no regrets.

Not entirely sure what the extended warranty you are talking about would cover, and whether you could take it to a shop that would know the car. But don't under estimate the cost of maintaining a BMW.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Will it ever see a track?

 

[BobbyBRAKEaNek]

The S2000 is about paid for. I'd keep it and have some extra scratch to save once it's paid for.

 

[Denilson]

I used to own an E46 M3 - 05 Comp. Package.

The car is just awesome, and defenetly something else compared to the S2000..

Gesrbox: I had the SMG II.
Amazing gearbox!! 👍 👍

I would try and find one around the 85.000 km mark.

The mantenance intervals are not calculated from miles, but fuel used.
This means that if the car has less than 85.000 km on it, but the last service was an "Inspection II", it's been driven hard. If the car had "Inspection II" after 85.000 km, it's been driven hard, but not too hard.

Service Intervals are:
Oil Service
Inspection I
Oil Service
Inspection II
Oil Service
Inspection I
Oil Service
Inspection II
and so on..

Oil Service is the cheapest one, the Inspection I, and then Inspection II.
Find a car at around 90.000 km with Inspection II done pretty recently.

1. You kind of know how the car's been driven in the past
2. You don't need to cash for an Inspection II for a while.
The optimal service intervals are each 25.000 km.. But with these cars, it's more like 1900-2100 km between services.
First Service (oil) at around 2000km
2nd Service (Inspection II) at around 4000km
3rd Service (oil) at around 6000km
4th Service (Inspection II) at around 8000km.
The above is an average used M3..
If Inspection II is done at say 7000km, it's been driven hard.
If Inspection II is done at say 9000 km, it's been gently driven..

Just take a look in the Service book. 👍

My old car..

And a youtube video for the memories..
I miss her so..



It's an AMAZING car! 👍

But don't under estimate the cost of maintaining a BMW.

Aaand this ^
So true..

 

[McLaren]

Less than $20K? You're better off looking for something else. These are not cars to buy on that kind of budget.

 

[Denilson]

Less than $20K? You're better off looking for something else. These are not cars to buy on that kind of budget.

I don't know what the list price is in the US, but here, in Sweden, you'd have to pay around 250.000 SEK for a car like mine. That's around 39-40k $.. But I know that the prices in the US are lower compared to here in general.. So maybee it's possible to get hold of an E46 M3 for around 25K $, but then there's maintenance..

So the budget, as McLaren says is too low.
I.e 1 set of premium tires (2 sets/season, Michelin Pilot Sport II/III) cost around: 16.000 SEK or 2500$.. Perhaps a tad lower since it's not as expensice as here.. But you have to expect around 4000$/season just for tires (2 sets).

If you never floor it or anything, you can ofc go further/set.. But it's hard to not floor it in an E46 M3.

 

[Anna+Reece]

I think, instead of looking at an M3 as a replacement, you should look for a 350Z. Those cost less, repair costs are cheaper, and they are fun.

 

[Danoff]

The E46 is a good car (I have one) but do be prepared to work on it yourself or pay through the nose.

A couple of things you want to look for at 120k miles:
- Transmission fluid must have been changed (preferably twice)
- Control arm bushings need to have been changed (preferably twice)
- Vanos seals should have been replaced with aftermarket seals
- Fuel pump should have been replaced (preferably twice)
- Check the rear subframe for cracks. Best possible scenario is a subframe reinforcement kit has been added preventatively.
- The car should have had a full cooling system overhaul including the thermostat, expansion tank, water pump, and if they're really doing things well... the radiator. If it was done at 60k mi, it's time to do it again (unless they used aftermarket parts that last longer).
- Engine drive pulleys die every 60k mi or so
- DISA valve dies every 60k mi or so
- Window regulators die fairly regularly, you'll probably learn how to replace that.
- Sunroof breaks early and often. Try not to sweat that.
- Check the rearview mirror for bubbles behind the glass or discoloration and ask whether it has been replaced. If it is bubbly or discolored at all it may begin leaking fluid at any time and this fluid will eat right through the interior panels like Alien blood - so it needs to be refurbished.
- Check for play/looseness in the steering - if so the steering guibo needs to be replaced.


Anyway, lots of stuff can go wrong. On the bright side, pretty much everything in that list can be done yourself if you have the parts and some wrenches. If you get an E46, do plan to learn how to work on it, but there is a wealth of step-by-step instructions and things to look out for on E46fanatics.com. You'll want to become a member there and start reading all of the DIYs and watching the various youtube clips.

 

[McLaren]

I don't know what the list price is in the US, but here, in Sweden, you'd have to pay around 250.000 SEK for a car like mine. That's around 39-40k $.. But I know that the prices in the US are lower compared to here in general.. So maybee it's possible to get hold of an E46 M3 for around 25K $, but then there's maintenance..

So the budget, as McLaren says is too low.
I.e 1 set of premium tires (2 sets/season, Michelin Pilot Sport II/III) cost around: 16.000 SEK or 2500$.. Perhaps a tad lower since it's not as expensice as here.. But you have to expect around 4000$/season just for tires (2 sets).

If you never floor it or anything, you can ofc go further/set.. But it's hard to not floor it in an E46 M3.

That's around what they cost new here. In the states, a decent E46 is around $25K minimum. Any models under $20K are high mileage, hard driven cars, and just not worth the potential nightmare in maintenance costs they will require.

Personally, as again, a decent E46 is around $25K, you can easily save yourself the potential issues even more & just pay the extra $2-3K that will easily get you a model in great to mint condition.

Wanting an M3 with 120,000 miles, let alone 100,000 is just ridiculous IMO. These are not cars built for high mileage usage and will require a large amount of money to keep enjoying them. You want a good M3 with a lot of life left in it, shoot for one with 45,000-60,000 miles that has had all the required maintenance. At that point, you'll be the one enjoying the car as it starts to enter its maintenance years.

 

[Danoff]

That's around what they cost new here. In the states, a decent E46 is around $25K minimum. Any models under $20K are high mileage, hard driven cars, and just not worth the potential nightmare in maintenance costs they will require.

Personally, as again, a decent E46 is around $25K, you can easily save yourself the potential issues even more & just pay the extra $2-3K that will easily get you a model in great to mint condition.

Wanting an M3 with 120,000 miles, let alone 100,000 is just ridiculous IMO. These are not cars built for high mileage usage and will require a large amount of money to keep enjoying them. You want a good M3 with a lot of life left in it, shoot for one with 45,000-60,000 miles that has had all the required maintenance. At that point, you'll be the one enjoying the car as it starts to enter its maintenance years.

The maintenance years for these cars is around 45-60k mi (and on). I'd say if someone has stayed on top of the maintenance, they can last a very long time (well beyond 200,000). If it's been to the track a lot (as with any car) 120k mi can be a lifetime.

 

[McLaren]

I should have said in its "prime" years. Most M3s do not last past 120,000 miles without major service needed at some point or another.

 

[Ven0m]

If anything goes wrong on the BMW, you're going to have a bad time. Costs a fortune to fix European cars. Much much less for the Japanese cars. Do yourself a favor and either keep the S2K or buy something cheaper to fix.

 

[Danoff]

 

[Ven0m]

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Porsche Boxster. No, seriously. They're a total steal used. Relatively reliable, not actually that expensive to maintain if you go to a normal mechanic and not the dealer, handle amazingly, and decently fast. Porsche has an awesome community too, and PCA runs tons of track, autocross, and other events that it'll get you into.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

The G35 6MT says hi.

 

[Anna+Reece]

The G35 6MT says hi.

THIS, or a G37 6MT.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

THIS, or a G37 6MT.

Sportier option would be the 350/70Z which is lighter with a shorter wheel base and more on the sport side than the luxury side.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

ATM -> I'm going to call my bank to see how much is the total payoff on my S2K. At this moment I'm looking at this:

'06 M3 w/ 76.5K mi

Link

^ Inspection #2 was done @ 60K mi.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Don't do it.

 

[Denilson]

WOW! Nice car. 👍
It's hard to judge from the pics, but it's Interlagos Blue, right? Not topaz blue?

75600 miles = 120000 km..
That's pretty much milage, but it's not like the car can't handle it. What's important is how the history is.. Yu need to look in to that before deciding.

Inspection II was done at 60000 miles (95000 km), and just by looking at the distance, that indicates that the car has been driven gently..
BUT, you need to look at when all the other services was done as well. Are they all at or slightly below the 12500 mile (20000 km) range? If not => Alarm call!
Cause their's a possibility the owner could'nt afford it, and ran over the service interval and did it too late. Take a look in to that. 👍

EDIT: As McLaren points out, it's been driven quite a lot/year.. But it's likely it's been driven much on highways etc, and that could also explain the relatively long distances between services.
And that meen much less wear compared to a car with half the milage, but was driven hard every single time.
Initially, looks like a good car concidering it's milage. 👍

 

[McLaren]

Don't do it.

Why? That's actually a pretty good model & the miles show it was driven too much each year. Plus, having an Inspection done before hand on record is a major plus.

Higher miles than I'd want, but not a bad car for what the owner is asking.

 

[motortrend]

I'd say keep the s2k and save up for an NSX. The e46 is great though they have the ir niggles like some subframe failure cases

 

[Anna+Reece]

I'd say keep the s2k and save up for an NSX. The e46 is great though they have the ir niggles like some subframe failure cases

Another very good idea.

 

[boomee]

DOnt do it keep you S2K pay it off and enjoy or mod slowly

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Hmm, how about this one?

'04 M3 w/ 79K miles USD$19,900 or best offer

LINK

 

[SpartanG]

I'm confused as to why you want to trade away your S2k. It's a great car that is lauded as having one of the best balanced chassis and engine. You say the reason you want a new car is to lower car payments, but if anything the BMW will cost you more than the Honda S2000. Insurance will be likely similar or more on the M3, and gas will be more. Repairs will be more, both in expense and frequency.

If you plan on owning the car long-term, I think sticking with the S is the smarter move. You already know how it has been treated and you won't get any surprise expenses. But then again, we're gearheads and when it comes to cars we buy things cause its fun, not because it makes sense. All I can say is, make sure you compare the hell out of the M3s you have lined up and make sure the one you get will give you many years of reliable use.