'05 Chrysler 300: Finest American sedan I can recall

[///M-Spec]

Just yanking your chain, man. E60 5-series is overpriced by 5-8k, I agree.


M

 

[pimp racer]

I saw this car at night yesterday!

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Just yanking your, chain man. E60 5-series is overpriced by 5-8k, I agree.


M

Quite an admission from somebody who's just put down a deposit on a car I believe to be one of the most overpriced in its segment...

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Quite an admission from somebody who's just put down a deposit on a car I believe to be one of the most overpriced in its segment...

Ain't no secret. I've said it in plenty of threads before... one with you IN IT.

..and people who buy M5s aren't allowed to talk smack about value.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

..and people who buy M5s aren't allowed to talk smack about value.


M

What about people who buy M5s used?

Ain't no secret. I've said it in plenty of threads before... one with you IN IT.

Then why do it? Infiniti G35: leagues better.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
What about people who buy M5s used?

No exceptions.

Originally posted by M5Power
Then why do it? Infiniti G35: leagues better.

You just busting my chops or do you really want to get into this?


M

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
No exceptions.

What about people who buy M5s used only to sell them weeks later?

You just busting my chops or do you really want to get into this?

If you want to get into it, you'd better have reasons other than "it handles better."

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
What about people who buy M5s used only to sell them weeks later?

Ah, whatever. A CLK55 makes the same point.

Originally posted by M5Power
If you want to get into it, you'd better have reasons other than "it handles better."

Hey, I didn't bring my purchase into this. We were talking about the 5-Series remember?

And I have plenty of very, very good reasons I stayed with BMW rather than jump ship to Infiniti. You want to discuss it, give the word and we move this back to my thread in the Rumble Strip... I don't want to take this one OT.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Ah, whatever. A CLK55 makes the same point.

It really does - talk about trash value. And I'm not even bitter that it's seven zillion dollars and is the only AMG without a supercharger (except the G55, but I'm trying to make a point here so we'll leave that out), I'm bitter that it hasn't got standard Xenon headlights or a 6-disc CD player. I could find Hyundais that are better-equipped for the price than this. But it's quick.

Hey, I didn't bring my purchase into this. We were talking about the 5-Series remember?

And I have plenty of very, very good reasons I stayed with BMW rather than jump ship to Infiniti. You want to discuss it, give the word and we move this back to my thread in the Rumble Strip... I don't want to take this one OT.

Well, I don't want to go all the way to the Rumble Strip. I don't believe there are "plenty" of good reasons to have, let alone very very good reasons on why anyone would select a BMW - any BMW - over the G35 Leather, but if you think so then fine.

More power, cheaper, more stuff, more room, more fuel economy, similar handling...

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Well, I don't want to go all the way to the Rumble Strip. I don't believe there are "plenty" of good reasons to have, let alone very very good reasons on why anyone would select a BMW - any BMW - over the G35 Leather, but if you think so then fine.

More power, cheaper, more stuff, more room, more fuel economy, similar handling...

Of course I think so, I ordered the car didn't I? And here you are eggin' me on and at the same time you say you're not interested in getting into it. If you were a woman, you'd be a worldclass pricktease, you know that?

Doug, you and I have very different expectations from a car. Lets just save a lot of typing and leave it at that. I don't to go into any of my excellent reasons...




...such as 58% vs. 51% resale value over 3 years that makes the G35 end up costing more than the ZHP as an investment over time, OR how BMW picks up the tab for all scheduled maintanence which amounts to a $1500+ value over 4 years OR how Infiniti dealers won't budge an inch under MSRP for 6MT models but I can get the ZHP 1k over invoice. This ultimately comes to a <5k difference and I think I'm getting the better car for my money.

NOR will I get into how as a driver's car, the 3er is head and shoulders more precise, balanced, responsive and ultimately more rewarding. How the chassis maintains the line no matter how hard the road tries to upset it. How the pedals are perfectly lined up for heel-toe operation. How the steering, shifter --everything you touch is all perfectly designed to make you one with the car and the driving experience. The car has heart and soul.. the G was cold to the touch by comparison.

I will also FAIL TO MENTION how over the long haul, the BMW will age much better than the Infiniti, a conclusion I came to after driving an '03 6MT coupe with 18k miles and discovered that my 6 year old E36 with 79k miles felt tighter and more solid. We'll just let all that go....

...since we're not going to get into it.


M

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
...such as 58% vs. 51% resale value over 3 years that makes the G35 end up costing more than the ZHP as an investment over time, OR how BMW picks up the tab for all scheduled maintanence which amounts to a $1500+ value over 4 years OR how Infiniti dealers won't budge an inch under MSRP for 6MT models but I can get the ZHP 1k over invoice. This ultimately comes to a <5k difference and I think I'm getting the better car for my money.

NOR will I get into how as a driver's car, the 3er is head and shoulders more precise, balanced, responsive and ultimately more rewarding. How the chassis maintains the line no matter how hard the road tries to upset it. How the pedals are perfectly lined up for heel-toe operation. How the steering, shifter --everything you touch is all perfectly designed to make you one with the car and the driving experience. The car has heart and soul.. the G was cold to the touch by comparison.

I will also FAIL TO MENTION how over the long haul, the BMW will age much better than the Infiniti, a conclusion I came to after driving an '03 6MT coupe with 18k miles and discovered that my 6 year old E36 with 79k miles felt tighter and more solid. We'll just let all that go....

...since we're not going to get into it.


M

Wanna put that up to a recently Sold Mustang ? : )

That BMW does sound like a Tuner's choice over the Infiniti. Lately I have actually been frowning more and more upon Japanesse engineering. I am embarassed to Say Acura's build quality from what I remember in the mid to late 90's has dropped in overall build. The RSX is a perfect example of cheaply made interiors. I would say my old Miata had a better build quality from 93 then a car ten years younger then it. I don't know Infiniti's build quality, but I don't think it would match up to German Engineering. Especially Build Quality. Even the 2000 + VWs I once sold seem to be a better build quality then any Honda, Acura, Nissan, Mazda, etc. that I have been in.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by miata13B
Wanna put that up to a recently Sold Mustang ? : )

That BMW does sound like a Tuner's choice over the Infiniti. Lately I have actually been frowning more and more upon Japanesse engineering. I am embarassed to Say Acura's build quality from what I remember in the mid to late 90's has dropped in overall build. The RSX is a perfect example of cheaply made interiors. I would say my old Miata had a better build quality from 93 then a car ten years younger then it. I don't know Infiniti's build quality, but I don't think it would match up to German Engineering. Especially Build Quality. Even the 2000 + VWs I once sold seem to be a better build quality then any Honda, Acura, Nissan, Mazda, etc. that I have been in.

Stock suspension, right? In anything but hauling ass straight forward, yeah

The G35 has a very nice interior --when it is BRAND NEW. The used one I drove made me concerned for the car over the long haul. The plastic had that hazy, dusty brittle feel to it, the leather felt more like glazed rubber than any cowhide I ever felt. When you shut the long, heavy coupe door, it simply clanged shut as if it were hollow inside. It just didn't look or feel like it was going to last.

:shurg: It is possible I drove a rebuilt salvage car whose owner was a chain smoker. But I doubt it.

The RSX... world's best argument to get an aftermarket suspension 👍


M

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Stock suspension, right? In anything but hauling ass straight forward, yeah

Do you think I am a stock kinda guy???

The G35 has a very nice interior --when it is BRAND NEW. The used one I drove made me concerned for the car over the long haul. The plastic had that hazy, dusty brittle feel to it, the leather felt more like glazed rubber than any cowhide I ever felt. When you shut the long, heavy coupe door, it simply clanged shut as if it were hollow inside. It just didn't look or feel like it was going to last.

:shurg: It is possible I drove a rebuilt salvage car whose owner was a chain smoker. But I doubt it.

Sounds like a crap box to me. Possible a rebuild after getting damaged before getting to the dealership. Used though, sounds like the person that had that car treated it like utter crap. I dislike people that neglect their cars. That is almost as bad as neglecting your kids.

The RSX... world's best argument to get an aftermarket suspension 👍


M

World's Best Argument to make a RWD conversion. . . : )

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by miata13B
Sounds like a crap box to me. Possible a rebuild after getting damaged before getting to the dealership. Used though, sounds like the person that had that car treated it like utter crap. I dislike people that neglect their cars. That is almost as bad as neglecting your kids.

Infiniti needs to get their materials up to Lexus and VAG standards. THOSE people know how to make an interior. Recent BMW interiors are also very good... but I feel Lexus and Audi are the benchmarks.


M

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Infiniti needs to get their materials up to Lexus and VAG standards. THOSE people know how to make an interior. Recent BMW interiors are also very good... but I feel Lexus and Audi are the benchmarks.


M

The last Lexus I rode in was a 2000 IS300. Fairly nice interior, definately better then any Honda I had driven. My old roommate's '85 #28 (i want to say that) had a wonderful interior for even modern day interiors that I have seen.



Ok, so should there be a benchmark that auto manufactures need to meet or exceed to fill today's interior requirements by the consumer?

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

...since we're not going to get into it.

If someone - anyone - can tell me how to calculate three-year resale value for a car that came out two years ago, I'd give them some sort of pie. Don't give me any of this "the brand's past performance" trash, either - we all know Infiniti's seven thousand times better now than it was in 2001 and that the G35 was the beginning of the revolution.

Your calculations (and I use the term to the loosest possible degree) have you down $5000 initially because the 3-series is, in essence, a better driver's car, which to me is absurd for about a hundred reasons, particularly that the G35 really is a damn good car whose zillions of other attributes outweigh the handling and engineering.

But.

I would sacrifice handling for features to a point. You wouldn't. I'm the only person you'll ever meet who's tried to put a dollar value on handling. In the end, that's why we'll never agree here.

Still, you're wrong. Clearly

Infiniti needs to get their materials up to Lexus and VAG standards. THOSE people know how to make an interior. Recent BMW interiors are also very good... but I feel Lexus and Audi are the benchmarks.

Not yet. Chevrolet's learning this too. Value attracts reviews. Reviews attract new customers. Only once you've attracted a huge fan base of new customers can you even begin to improve in areas other than value, such as total quality. Infiniti's quality is simply not as good as it was in 2001. But they sell better cars for less money. Same's true for Nissan. In six or seven years, Infiniti will be a major player in the luxury sedan game and you may have a harder time choosing the 330i over the G35.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
If someone - anyone - can tell me how to calculate three-year resale value for a car that came out two years ago, I'd give them some sort of pie.

Still, you're wrong. Clearly

BMW enjoys better resale value than nearly every other car it competes with. Ask the Finance Manager to show you the 24-48 month projected residuals they use to calculate lease payments. They are seldom off by more than a grand, because banks bank on these numbers.

Here's the nitty gritty; Going off the top of my head here, so don't flip out if I'm a few dollars off either way. The numbers came directly from BMW and Infiniti themseleves at the time when I was shopping for a car:

2004 330i ZHP. Sale price: $40,000. (About 1k over invoice) Includes ZHP Performance Package, metallic paint, bi-xenon lights, heated front seats, moonroof. 58% 3 year residual.$23,200.

2004 G35 6MT coupe. Sale price: $35,500. (I called around. My negotiating skills may not be all that good because no one would come off sticker on a 6MT.) Includes Premium Package. 51% 3 year residual, $18,105.

3 Year depreciation on 330 ZHP: $16,800. G35 6MT: $17,395. Add the fact that BMW pays for all the scheduled maintanence while Infiniti soaks you for $50 oil changes and the gap just gets wider.

I like peach cobbler.

Anyway, I didn't base my decision on this. To me, the BMW is worth the extra 5 grand... the fact that it has better resale is just a bonus.

Originally posted by M5Power
In six or seven years, Infiniti will be a major player in the luxury sedan game and you may have a harder time choosing the 330i over the G35.

Maybe so. They are well on their way, that I agree. Of course, the E90 3/4 series will move the target again, not to mention its replacement.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

I like peach cobbler.

Well you don't get any. I still want to know how to calculate the damn values!

Maybe so. They are well on their way, that I agree. Of course, the E90 3/4 series will move the target again, not to mention its replacement.

Oh, you'll still choose the 3-series over the G35, I'm just saying you'll have a more difficult time doing it. Once you've had a few vehicles from one manufacturer, you've sworn allegiance - basically just sign over your soul.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Once you've had a few vehicles from one manufacturer, you've sworn allegiance - basically just sign over your soul.

EVERY TIME I TRY TO GET OUT...

:waves arms around:

THEY PULL ME BACK IN!


M