2 engine swap related questions.

[JCE]

While daydreaming at work today after hearing an M3 drive by (god such a great noise that car makes) it occured to me (question 1), is it possible to stuff the BMW I6 (3.2L) in a 3rd generation Camaro? I mean has anyone manufactured/fabricated any mounts? How different are the mounts from a normal V6/V8 compared to an inline engine? I mean there are some crazy ass swaps out there so I thought maybe someone's done this one. I'm not going to do it, I just want to know for my own curiosity...unless its cheap to do the swap compared to swapping an LS1.

And the second question I was going to ask tonight anyway (question number 2), how hard is it to swap out a bike engine into a car. I've seen videos of people (mainly in Europe) doing it in Golfs and other small hatches. So, how would the transmission exactly work? I don't ride or know anything about motorcycles so forgive my ignorance. I think the noise bike engines make in cars on those videos is quite nice.

 

[weiss_komet]

The Camaro would not be smog legal, at least not in California where i live. As far as i know, you cant put engines from other manufacturers in different make cars.

Neat idea though...

 

[=V8 Power=]

Where I live they don't have any regulations on emissions really. So I'm sure if it would fit, it could be done.

 

[dubbed]

M3+engine swap should only be taken seriously if it is this

The 3 series BMW from Hartge is a masterpiece in many ways and not all of them are visual. The Hartge engineers have achieved something very special under the thermodynamically optimized bonnet in particual. Fitted with a modified M5 V10 engine, a 7-speed SMG transmission and the Hartge modification to raise top speed from the electronically limited 155 mph to 200 mph, the H50 V10 puts all its power – 550 bhp and torque of 384 lb-ft – onto the tarmac via a reinforced rear axle and a special suspension setup that is adjustable in terms of both rebound and compression.

Also new and made especially for the Hartge H50 V10, is the stainless steel exhaust system, which turns the V10 sound into an acoustic delight. Customers can choose between two dual round (or oval) tail pipes. The wheel / tire combination consists of 9 x 20 offset 40 at the front and 10 x 20 offset 40 at the back fitted with 245/30 ZR20 and 285/25 ZR20 tires respectively.

The Interior

The interior highlights are a 205 mph speedometer, the carbon interior trim, the 3-spoke leather steering wheel with carbon inserts, the illuminated aluminum gear knob and the leather handbrake cover.

With the H50 V10, Hartge is continuing its long tradition of making wolves in sheep's clothing for individualists who attach importance to understatement.

The H50 V10 is based on the BMW 3 series saloon (E90). A comparable conversion is currently being developed for the Touring (E91) and Coupe (E92).

 

[YSSMAN]

Not to completely poo-poo on the idea, but why would you want the M3's I6 in a Camaro? That has to be breaking a law somewhere...

That said, I think it could be done with some pretty radical engineering, but it would be VERY difficult if you didn't know what you were doing. The big issues are going to come from the wiring harness from the BMW, combining it with some of the GM bits and pieces, and getting everything to hook up properly and "talk" to eachother.

...Quite frankly, you'd be better off buying a $15K LS7, comming away with more power, and I belive less weight as well (not completely sure there). Added to that, the LS7 swap has been done, is "easy," and wouldn't be destroying everything the Camaro stood for.

...But, if you want to go with an I6, a swap of the Vortec 4200 "Atlas" could be very interesting...

 

[Wolfe]

@JCE3000GT: I'm not sure. I think the S54 would be a little on the narrow side to fit an engine bay designed for large V engines, and I'm almost 100% positive that there's no such kit readily available. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible, though, and I agree that it would be something to see.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with YSSMAN on the feasibility/cost-effectiveness of it.

As far as i know, you cant put engines from other manufacturers in different make cars.

Tell that to the thousands of tuners who have done precisely that. One popular swap is putting the Chevrolet LS1 V8 into the Mazda RX-7. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

@dubbed: 1. That isn't an M3, and the engine isn't from an M3.
2. I think Hartge takes awesome-looking BMWs and makes them look hideous.
3. Your post doesn't help JCE3000GT in the slightest.

 

[Jay]

Like Wolfe said a chance for a fabricated kit those this proposed engine swap be next to none. You will need to fabricate everything from scratch yourself which usually isn't too much of a problem foe someone that is pretty good at metal work (cutting, welding, measuring). Usual issues that may come into it is sump-crossmember clearance, steering rod/rack clearance etc. I'm certain it can be done but the you wont know the difficulty until you get into it and its doubtful there is info of others that have tried it as this is a fairly odd conversion.

As far as i know, you cant put engines from other manufacturers in different make cars.

Of course you can, done and have been involved in a couple myself.

 

[retsmah]

I've got some experience building bike engined cars, specifically this one

The sportbike motors are pretty similar to the motor and transmission on a front wheel drive car, except the transmission is integrated into the motor, you can't pull it off like you can on a car. And, instead of having a differential inside with two outputs for halfshafts, it's only got one output intended for a sprocket.

If you are doing a front engined, rear wheel drive car it'd be really easy, you just mount your driveshaft up to the output shaft on the motor. In a front wheel drive, or mid engined setup it can get a little more complicated. In our case we have a differential that's driven by a chain off the bike motor... not that difficult for us, but we've got a machine shop to make parts, computers/software/knowledge to design the parts, etc.

Motorcycles for the most part don't have reverse, so you would either be stuck with a car that can't go backwards under it's own power, or you would have to come up with something, possibly an electric reverse like Goldwing motorcycles have.

 

[skip0110]

As to the motorbike you'd need to bias the engine to one side becuse the tranny tucks in behind the engine.

There was a C&D article on doing this in a Caterham-like chassis http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-chris-fiaccones-locost-sports-car-page4.html

As to the M3 I6 in the Camaro, I don't think it will possible. I believe the LS-series is lower than the M3 engine and since the Camaro tucks the engine under the cowl, there isn't room for engines with taller valve covers.

You could do it with the engine hanging way out on the bumper, but you would mess up the Camaro handling balance.

And YSSMAN, do you have any idea how tall a 4200 I6 is?! It would never fit.

EDIT: sorry, missed that we were talking about the 3rd gen Camaro. There it would be possible. Not on the 4th gen though.

I've got some experience building bike engined cars, specifically this one

Looks like fun 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

And YSSMAN, do you have any idea how tall a 4200 I6 is?! It would never fit.

To be completely honest, no I don't. We have an Envoy here, but I've pretty much chosen to ignore it, as I'm not a fan of the reasoning behind the purchase of the truck. Our Avalanche is much better... lol

 

[Tornado]

And YSSMAN, do you have any idea how tall a 4200 I6 is?! It would never fit.

EDIT: sorry, missed that we were talking about the 3rd gen Camaro. There it would be possible. Not on the 4th gen though.

I'm not so sure whether it would never fit, but in order to use it you would need the 5-speed slushbox it comes with.
Whilst we are on the subject, I as thinking about swapping out the anemic piece of garbage in my Blazer for a 5.0 or 5.7, and I was wondering what the opinion would be on it.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm not so sure whether it would never fit, but in order to use it you would need the 5-speed slushbox it comes with.
Whilst we are on the subject, I as thinking about swapping out the anemic piece of garbage in my Blazer for a 5.0 or 5.7, and I was wondering what the opinion would be on it.

I think I've seen a lot of S-trucks with that conversion, especially around here. There's probably a kit for it. considering one engine was basically a V-6 version of the smallblock, It'd probably fit pretty well.

 

[JCE]

I was just dreaming is all on the I6 idea, I wasn't even planning on doing it.

I've got some experience building bike engined cars, specifically this one

The sportbike motors are pretty similar to the motor and transmission on a front wheel drive car, except the transmission is integrated into the motor, you can't pull it off like you can on a car. And, instead of having a differential inside with two outputs for halfshafts, it's only got one output intended for a sprocket.

If you are doing a front engined, rear wheel drive car it'd be really easy, you just mount your driveshaft up to the output shaft on the motor. In a front wheel drive, or mid engined setup it can get a little more complicated. In our case we have a differential that's driven by a chain off the bike motor... not that difficult for us, but we've got a machine shop to make parts, computers/software/knowledge to design the parts, etc.

Motorcycles for the most part don't have reverse, so you would either be stuck with a car that can't go backwards under it's own power, or you would have to come up with something, possibly an electric reverse like Goldwing motorcycles have.

Interesting, this would be a good exercise to buy some old beatup hatchback and stuff a bike engine in it. But it would be a bit too pricy me thinks.

Where I live they don't have any regulations on emissions really. So I'm sure if it would fit, it could be done.

True, we have emissions BS here but I have a "connection" that can and will pass my project car (in this case my Camaro with straight pipes) regardless. 👍

As far as i know, you cant put engines from other manufacturers in different make cars.

There are tons of FB, FC, and FD RX7's floating around with anything from a Chevy 350 to a Nissan VG30 to a Honda S2000 engine in them. Not to mention the Datsun/Nissan 240Z/260Z/280Z cars with Chevy 350's in them. 👍

 

[skip0110]

Whilst we are on the subject, I as thinking about swapping out the anemic piece of garbage in my Blazer for a 5.0 or 5.7, and I was wondering what the opinion would be on it.

S10 V8 conversions are very common and easy.

But every performance trick/part for the 350/5.7 also works for the 4.3. Particularly effective is Vortech's supercharged kit for the 350 which fits the 4.3 with basically no modification (all you do is shorten the boost tube). You would also need a crank-triggered ignition because it interferes with the distrbutor. Hot Rod did a bit on it several years ago and yielded about 400 hp from the 4.3.

 

[Tornado]

I know of the supercharger kits for 4.3's, but I'd rather get a small block instead of pumping up my 4.3 for 3 reasons:

1. My 4.3 is throwing a rod and I don't not want to fix it for the 4th time.
2. I want this to be as easy as possible, and I beleive 4.3's even use the same engine mounts as small blocks
   
3. There is a junkyard about 3 miles from my house practically filled with crap-box Camaro's.

I don't necessarily want (or need) any more BHP than, say, 275. And I (or, rather, my father) owns an engine lift. I just want an engine that is more reliable, and get's better mileage (which I'm sure a stock 5.7 will).

 

[YSSMAN]

I've seen quite a few LT1/LS1 swaps on S-trucks, and depending on who did it, can usually turns out pretty well. Older ones usually use the $4000 turn-key GM crate engines (I'm thinking 350 H.O. Deluxe), which I think would be your best choise (assuming the truck is old enough), otherwise you could pick up an old 305 or 350 and squeeze it in there.

...Otherwise, you should be able to pick up a brand-new LS1 for well-under $10K these days...

 

[Tornado]

If I had $10,000, I would just go out and buy a full size GMT400 Blazer.

 

[YSSMAN]

Sure, there are far better things to spend money on these days, I'd drink to that!

 

[Tornado]

Especially since I hardly ever use my truck, barring off-road expenditures of fuel (which are hella fun. It just won't get stuck.).

 

[YSSMAN]

...For $10K, I know of a nice VW Jetta GLX that has my name on it...

But we are getting off-topic!

---

Think! Think!

...Um...

Maybe when my car "dies" engine wise, maybe I should give the guys at HPA a call and see if they can drop in the R32's 3.2L VR6, twin-turbocharge it, and add the Haldex AWD setup for good measure. That way, shes the ultimate sleeper, dings/dents and all!

 

[Jay]

Think! Think!

...Um...

Maybe when my car "dies" engine wise, maybe I should give the guys at HPA a call and see if they can drop in the R32's 3.2L VR6, twin-turbocharge it, and add the Haldex AWD setup for good measure. That way, shes the ultimate sleeper, dings/dents and all!

Well then hurry up and kill your engine!