2004 Toyota Prius Review

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Well, after talking about it incessantly for a while, my family and I went to Frontier Toyota, in Valencia, to look at a new Prius.

$33,000 later, we left, one SUV lost, and one SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle) gained. While we paid way over sticker (about $25,000), it was actually a quite good price, compared to what this highly in-demand car is currently going for, and unlike most buyers who are paying about the same, we didn't have to wait in line or on a list for this car.

Anyway, on to the car itself. We got Package #9, the top one, that includes everything. The high-tech features are really cool. Possibly coolest is the smart entry feature. Here's how it works:

Instead of a key, the car just has a fob, much like the ones usually used to operate alarm systems or remote locks. But you don't need to use it. Just put the fob, which contains a short-range radio transmitter, in your pocket. As you approach the car, the dors will unlock themselves. Now, just sit in the car, and push the start button on the dash. The car will start.

Once you're in the car, even more features are available. The car includes a dash-mounted touchscreen. The car's stereo, climate, navigation,phone, and info are accessible from it. However, the use of a touchscreen and a standard stereo control system make it much easier to use than BMW's iDrive system. Additionally, it's made easy for the driver to operate the system whild operating the car. Switches and buttons for controlling the radio/CD, climate, and switching to data or nav are on the wheel. Also extremely cool is the voice button. To operate the Nav system, or the climate and audio systems, just press the button and speak a command. The car is very good at recognizing speech, and the several people who tried it all had little problem making it work. The rearview mirror is auto-dimming, and has a built in garage door opener function, with three settings, to allow opening of a gate and a garage, for instance.

The car contains a multitude of storage locations. The console contains the standard top opening, plus a sliding bin on its front. It also contains front opening cupholders, and a rear flipdown pair. In the upper console, there is an opening storage compartment, which is DIN sized, to accomidate audio or video systems. However, the package includes an in-dash 6CD changer, making it somewhat useless. However, I imagine a DVD player could be installed and wired up to the dash LCD. There is the standard glove compartment, and thanks to an unusual airbag mounting location, as second, upper, compartment above the glovebox. The "trunk" beneath the hatch has a lifting bottom, which exposes a compartment big enough to accomidate a small suitcase or briefacse. There is also a smaller compartment to its side, which is deeper. The seats, inclding the front passenger seat, can fold down to carry large payloads. Back in the cabin, andother interesting feature is the side map pockets, which are shaped to accomidate a water or soda bottle.

The car has a quite tight turning radius. It has relatively good pickup, despite it's 76HP. ( 76HP!!! ) The only problem is the engine. It's operation is so silent and smooth when in traffic that it seems like it's not there. It's also impossible to gauge speed by engine "feel". The speed display is mounted farther up the dash than usual, and is totally digital. It is, however, offset towards the driver, unlike the center mounting of the original Prius. The gearshift is electronic, and is just a small handle on the dash. To put the car in gear, just movie it left and down, and release it. It will pop back into its resting place.

Upon parking the car, one just needs to press the "park" button, above the gear lever, and push the power button. Following that, just get out, close the door, and push the small black button mounted on the exterior handle. It will lock the doors. After that, you're free walk away.

Overall, this is no race car, but it performs well enough, it's certainly high tech. The features are ones I think we'll see in more cars in the future.

The only problem with the car is rear visibility. Thanks to the odd hatchback design, there is a horizintal bar about halfway up your view. Also, the mirror, strangely, gives everything an odd, green, tint.

Anyway, i'll get some more info, and some pics, up this weekend, when I'll have the car in daylight. (my mom is driving it, and I actually haven't even seen it in daylight yet, because she gets back from work after dark)

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
It has relatively good pickup, despite it's 76HP. ( 76HP!!! )

That's the interesting thing about electric motors: they make all their power at all speed ranges. That means you have 76 hp working for you from the instant the car begins rolling. There is no power curve on an electric motor, it's a flat line.

 

[1X83Z]

I hate to say it, but the Toyota Prius is the single worst car ever sold.

A brand new Hyundai Accent starts at $9700, with a 104bhp 1.6L 4-cylinder engine, which gets 31mpg.

A brand new Toyota Prius starts at $20000, with a 76bhp 1.5L hybrid 4-cylinder engine, which gets 57.5mpg.

At the current gas price - say $1.30 per gallon - and considering one drives about 10,000 miles a year, the cost per year statistics are as follows:

- Accent requires 322.58 gallons per year ($419.35 per year)
- Prius requires 173.91 gallons per year ($226.10 per year)

The original starting cost of the Accent was $10300 less than that of the Prius. Per year, the Prius gains $193.25 of it back. Dividing $10300 by $193.25, the number of years it would take Prius to become a better value than Accent is shown - and, in fact, my calculator says it's 53.29 years - think February 2056.

Don't all you environmentalists say we'll be out of oil by then? Guess not, if we all drive a Prius. We'll just be out of money.



(by the way, this number includes fuel statistics only - 'better value' is defined simply that way in this post. It excludes Toyota-favouring statistics like depreciation and standard features as well as Hyundai-favouring statistics like passenger and cargo room as well as Toyota's several-thousand-dollar Prius battery which must be replaced every ten years)

 

[Rue]

I admire people for taking responsibility for our environment and using alternative energy, especially when it costs them more to do so.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

OK, number one, I'm wondering where you're getting those gas prices from. The average current gas price is $2.00 or regular unleaded. I've never seen it drop below 1.75, much less 1.30. We calculated the savings, it was in the neighborhood of $1500/yr

Second one, the Prius, in real life, actually gets an average of 65-70 MPG. Second we're driving the car 15-20,000 miles a year.

Plus, the Prius gets you a $2000 tax credit.

Add the fact that the Hyundai is devoid of features is another point that must be made. the toyota has an aboundance of them.

Oh, and, one other thing. Gas economy is only part of this car's benefits. You also have to take into account the fact that the car puts out less that 1/10 as much pollution as the average car sold today.

...and another benefit. The prius, as an SULEV, is subject to a new California ruling, which allows it to operate in the carpool lane with only one occupant. In other words, it massively cuts down on commute time.


BTW, M5Power, by your logic, there is no justification for calling the Prius the worst car ever sold. That honor would go to the Ferarri Enzo. Horrible fuel economy, no luggage space, no passenger space, no features, and a huge pricetag. All for a car that will honestly never get a chance to even approach its top performance.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by chaser_fan
I admire people for taking responsibility for our environment and using alternative energy, especially when it costs them more to do so.

I do like the Prius's alternative energy system - especially when the alternative energy it uses is gasoline, a clear alternative from... gasoline. 👍

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
OK, number one, I'm wondering where you're getting those gas prices from. The average current gas price is $2.00 or regular unleaded. I've never seen it drop below 1.75, much less 1.30. We calculated the savings, it was in the neighborhood of $1500/yr

Second one, the Prius, in real life, actually gets an average of 65-70 MPG. Second we're driving the car 15-20,000 miles a year.

You're mad - according to losangelesgasprices.com, the average gas price in Los Angeles is just $1.61. In my area it's a bit higher - but the country average is about $1.51. So, fine, tack on a few more years for the Prius.

I'd like to see some - any - proof that the car gets above quoted EPA figures. As long as I've lived, I've never seen anybody even approach quoted EPA figures, even if they spent their entire time driving behind a truck at 85mph on a highway. To say the Prius gets up to 13mpg better than EPA figures is totally mad.

The EPA's website used to have a wonderful system telling exactly what it would cost to run a car for one year, but unfortunately, it's also the worst-designed website ever, and I can't find that information, if it still exists.

Plus, the Prius gets you a $2000 tax credit.

That doesn't offset this, does it?

A Prius battery pack replacement will cost $3000-$5000. Toyota says the batteries will last ten years and guarantees them for eight, but that means that a ten-year-old Prius will be worthless (and consider the environmental impact of that, as well as the environmental issues in processing or disposing of hundreds of pounds of burnt-out batteries!).

If you don't believe it, ask your Toyota dealer - they may have neglected to mention it originally. Hey, they're trying to make a sale.

Add the fact that the Hyundai is devoid of features is another point that must be made. the toyota has an aboundance of them.

Fine. The sexy Toyota Corolla starts at $13600 and develops 36mpg. It gets 130bhp out of a 1.8L 4-cylinder. Using the same calculations as I used in my first post (except changing miles driven to 17,500 and gas price to $1.61), the Corolla still takes the Prius in value until about February 2025 (21.7 years). Or, with the $6400 you save off the original cost, you can have the features you want - a Corolla LE, the high-spec model, starts at $14800 and can be fully equipped (leather, power sunroof, cruise control, side airbags, ABS, a CD player, alloy wheels, an alarm, power windows, power locks, keyless entry, power mirrors, a remote trunk release, air-conditioning, and an extra 54bhp) for $17559 - still $2441 less than the Prius.

You can do the math for yourself if you wish.

Oh, and, one other thing. Gas economy is only part of this car's benefits. You also have to take into account the fact that the car puts out less that 1/10 as much pollution as the average car sold today.

...and another benefit. The prius, as an SULEV, is subject to a new California ruling, which allows it to operate in the carpool lane with only one occupant. In other words, it massively cuts down on commute time.

Cool, I'll let those stand. You get SULEV standing and you get to drive in the carpool lane. Not sure if that's worth 21.7 years of misery - hell, it wouldn't be for me - but whatever.

 

[bengee]

umm... gas in california is relatively expensive right now... It just dropped to 1.73 for lowest, and that is the cheapest its been for a while... LA cant be much lower than the bay area...

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

You're right, the gas is cheaper than I thought, I'm used to the Bimmer, which needs premium, and forgot that. Gas is still 1.80 or so, around here, though.

Now, as for the EPA's stats, there may be a reason for that. I bet they are quoting Highway mileage. While it makes sense on a normal car, with the Hybrid arangement, the Prius is actually most economical in stop and go traffic, because it runs off its batteries in those situations, and regenerates power when braking.

And, there's something you have to realize. This would be a great car if it had a normal engine. It has a huge number of high tech features that would be cool in amy car.

There's also another issue. A normal car sold in California is subject to thousands of dollars in additional emmissions taxes and costs. That Hyundai would sell, real wold, for about $13-14,000. Plus, being a little Hyundai, it would be bare of features, and drive like crap. That corolla would be $18-20,000. The Prius, being an SULEV, is subject to none of these regulations. In fact, they give you money for driving one. So, that base Prius, at 19k, is actually going to cost 17k, CHEAPER than a Corolla.

Oh, by the way, that battery issue WAS covered. In 8-10 years, when that battery comes up for scheduled replacement, it's covered by warranty. The battery is guaranteed to be replaced by Toyota on time, and if it fails be fore then, it will be replaced before then.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Whatever happened to getting a drift0r car? And whatever happened to smart shopping? There is no reason in the world why anyone should ever pay 8k over sticker, which is already jacked up over invoice. Based on that fact alone, youre nuts. There are much nicer looking hybrids out there anyway, but oh well. Just another laughmobile on the road.

 

[TsLeng]

Good

 

[TsLeng]

Good

Its nice to see somebody buy a hybrid for its enviromental friendlyness and expected cost savings in the long run.

A Prius is a laughmobile? Yeah, puts a laugh on the owners face.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara

Now, as for the EPA's stats, there may be a reason for that. I bet they are quoting Highway mileage. While it makes sense on a normal car, with the Hybrid arangement, the Prius is actually most economical in stop and go traffic, because it runs off its batteries in those situations, and regenerates power when braking.

No - 'they' aren't quoting anything - the mileage statistics I've quoted are the average of the city and highway mileage given by the EPA; it's the only way to really be fair.

And, there's something you have to realize. This would be a great car if it had a normal engine. It has a huge number of high tech features that would be cool in amy car.

Like what? I checked the spec list and, aside from the motor, nothing's really unique except hill acceleration control...

There's also another issue. A normal car sold in California is subject to thousands of dollars in additional emmissions taxes and costs. That Hyundai would sell, real wold, for about $13-14,000. Plus, being a little Hyundai, it would be bare of features, and drive like crap. That corolla would be $18-20,000. The Prius, being an SULEV, is subject to none of these regulations. In fact, they give you money for driving one. So, that base Prius, at 19k, is actually going to cost 17k, CHEAPER than a Corolla.

I take major issue with all of this; it's completely absurd.

First - in California, ALL new cars are subject to registration taxes. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. Emission (smog) taxes make up exactly 0.039% (flat $25 fee) of the whole registration fee for an average new car ($800), and, even with that wonderful statistic, guess what? The Prius still has to be tested despite its hybrid powertrain.

Second - the real world Hyundai, you claim, costs $13500, despite my MSRP quote at $9700. In your view, then, they're marking the price up 31.1%. The real world Corolla, you claim, costs $19000. Assuming you're referring to the fully-optioned Corolla LE I mentioned, you're alluding to a 16.9% markup. The largest markup I can find is 8.87% on the 12-cylinder BMW 760Li, which lists for $115800.

Third - ever heard of bargaining? Spend an hour in a dealer and you could easily get an Accent or a Corolla under the prices I've quoted. Both are volume sellers and their manufacturer prefers sales to major profit numbers - everybody knows Toyota makes big profits off the SUVs and luxurious models, as does Hyundai. I quote retail prices because I think they're fair.

Finally - you say the Prius is cheaper than the Corolla by your logic. Well, okay - your logic defines the Prius at $19000 (its retail is actually $19995) and you claim the Prius isn't subject to any of the regulations a normal car is, when, in reality, it is. You've also stated yourself you managed to pay $25000 for a new Prius, which, you mentioned, was over sticker. Still cheaper?

Oh, by the way, that battery issue WAS covered. In 8-10 years, when that battery comes up for scheduled replacement, it's covered by warranty. The battery is guaranteed to be replaced by Toyota on time, and if it fails be fore then, it will be replaced before then.

Cool. I checked Prius's warranty details and, not surprisingly, it isn't fully transferrable. So when you sell the it in seven years, the person who buys it (assuming it isn't a family member) is going to have to fork over $3k-$5k for a new battery because their battery isn't covered by warranty. I guarantee the Prius won't be worth even that much by then, making it a crap investment.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Originally posted by ShobThaBob
Whatever happened to getting a drift0r car? And whatever happened to smart shopping? There is no reason in the world why anyone should ever pay 8k over sticker, which is already jacked up over invoice. Based on that fact alone, youre nuts. There are much nicer looking hybrids out there anyway, but oh well. Just another laughmobile on the road.

I'm still getting a Drift car. This is my mom's Prius here.

And we're not the only ones paying over sticker. We actually got a good deal compared to a lot of buyers. Smart shopping was present. Every other dealer not only wanted as much, or more, but they also had a long waiting list, which would have meant waiting until January or February.

Now, personally, I wouldn't have bought the car. For the price, we could have had a pre-owned BMW 5, or a new G35.


Oh, and, you want another reason to buy a car that saves gas, one that's completely non-environmental? Terrorism. The money we pay for gas goes to oil companies. Those oil companies use it to buy oil from countires like Iran, Libya, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and more. Those countries all are well know for supporting terrorists and being openly anti-American.

Which brings me to another point. You keep calling me an "environmentalist". Since when does simply having a car that hurts the environment less thatn a normal car make me an envirmonmentalist? It seems that, according to your logic, anyone who's not a wide-eyed hippie with "greenpeace" and "save the whales" plastered all over his car has it as a responsibility to waste as much gas and pollute as much as possible? You can't simply care about the environment without being some kind of fringe group lunatic?

No, I'm just a normal person. "Environmentalists" are assholes. Greenpeace, well, I don't think I can say my opinion here. Nuke the whales, for all I care, they'e not good fo rmuch anyway. But oil is a limited commodity. There's not a lot of it left in the world. It's cars like the Prius, and the people who drive them, who are gonna make sure that the world's oil lasts long enough to find something better to use.

 

[halfracedrift]

Actually... Canada provides more than 50% of the USA's crude oil supply... ha!

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara

Oh, and, you want another reason to buy a car that saves gas, one that's completely non-environmental? Terrorism. The money we pay for gas goes to oil companies. Those oil companies use it to buy oil from countires like Iran, Libya, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and more. Those countries all are well know for supporting terrorists and being openly anti-American.

Sorry - but this is just stupid. This is buying directly into the horribly slanted, pathetic TV commercials on the topic that pretend all oil comes from terrorist-supporting nations. Those commercials are made, entirely, for people who need their opinions handed to them.

Of all oil used in the United States in 2002, 11% comes from the Middle East. That leaves 89% to come from other nations - Canada is, in fact, our largest oil trading partner, followed closely by Mexico. Are they terroristic? Of the 11% of US oil that comes from the Middle East, 69% comes from Saudi Arabia - they're a bit questionable, but still, that's just 6.2% of all the oil the US used in 2002. 1.8% of all US oil in 2002 came from Iraq, and no oil money there funds terrorism. Kuwait, an ally with no terrorist ties produced 0.9% of all of our oil in 2002. The United Arab Emirates produced about 0.009% (note that it's less than a tenth of a percent) of all of our oil in 2002, and the US does not trade with Iran nor receive oil from Lybia.

Also - I drive a Subaru, I've got a dog, I live in an apartment in Las Vegas, and I teach at the University of Nevada. I also own an oil field in East Texas that supplies several gas stations throughout central and southern Utah as well as Arizona. Would you say I'm a terrorist?

Which brings me to another point. You keep calling me an "environmentalist". Since when does simply having a car that hurts the environment less thatn a normal car make me an envirmonmentalist? It seems that, according to your logic, anyone who's not a wide-eyed hippie with "greenpeace" and "save the whales" plastered all over his car has it as a responsibility to waste as much gas and pollute as much as possible? You can't simply care about the environment without being some kind of fringe group lunatic?

I called you an environmentalist once. The comment was made off-hand and was barely even directed at you. I'd prefer you respond to the points I've actually made in this post and the post above it.

But oil is a limited commodity. There's not a lot of it left in the world. It's cars like the Prius, and the people who drive them, who are gonna make sure that the world's oil lasts long enough to find something better to use.

Cool - and you do that. I think the facts I've presented are more than enough to sway anybody even mildly interested away from the Prius - faster, cheaper, larger, better resale, more features, longer warranty - whatever it is, the Prius is a crap buy. And that was my point in the first place. You can spend your money on something that gets better gas mileage, but when push comes to shove, anybody who's mildly interested in a good value will stay away in droves. Better find an alternative energy source soon, then.

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
...The speed display is mounted farther up the dash than usual, and is totally digital...

Cool. My dad used to have a Subaru with digital speedometer. The tachometer was this line of bars under the speedometer that would rise as the engine was revved up. I loved that car.

Anyways, glad someone still buys the economic compacts instead of saving up for an SUV, which most people use in the same manner as a compact.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Wait a second...you own an oil field?

You obviously, then, have a biased opinion. That admission makes it completely clear what your motivations for hating the Prius and cars like it are. They represent a threat to your personal wealth. You go out and badmouth a car, not because of any of its faults, but because of your own greed.


Oh, and, by the way, i've never once seen any sort of public statement that oil finances terrorism, except by Ariana Huffington. I've certainly never seen it in a commercial. After all, the oil companies are all totally right wing, and so are the television networks. A statement like that would never make it onto the air.

 

[ShobThaBob]

You are an ignorant prick. I have lived in Saudi Arabia and the UAE for 4 years, and you have no clue what youre talking about. Think about what you say before you say it. The people there are very pro american beliefs. They might not like what america is doing at the moment, but then again, NEITHER DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD. Keep your ignorance to yourself thankyouverymuch.

As far as us supporting them, whatever. As was said before 50% of our oil comes from canada, another good 30-40% comes from venezuela. We dont give much buisiness to the middle east simply because the cost to get it around the world is immense. America also has tons of oil reserves in Alaska which they havent even begun to tap in to. You know nothing. And as far as all television networks being right wing....hah. Fox is really quite conservative when it comes to many issues, and so is CSPAN.

 

[askia47]

this thread is jumbled and very opinionated. The toyota prius is not the worst car sold-(putting all opinions aside) the car will be a success as it has been preforming well so far. Toyota has a good car on its hands. I dont care about opinions on the car, as the car will do well regradless

 

[askia47]

Originally posted by ShobThaBob
You are an ignorant prick. I have lived in Saudi Arabia and the UAE for 4 years, and you have no clue what youre talking about. Think about what you say before you say it. The people there are very pro american beliefs. They might not like what america is doing at the moment, but then again, NEITHER DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD. Keep your ignorance to yourself thankyouverymuch.

As far as us supporting them, whatever. As was said before 50% of our oil comes from canada, another good 30-40% comes from venezuela. We dont give much buisiness to the middle east simply because the cost to get it around the world is immense. America also has tons of oil reserves in Alaska which they havent even begun to tap in to. You know nothing. And as far as all television networks being right wing....hah. Fox is really quite conservative when it comes to many issues, and so is CSPAN.

My uncle is in the airforce and had to stay in Saudi for 6 months. He said the rules and regulations are strict and Saudi despised them(the americans) for being there.

 

[ShobThaBob]

I never said they liked the military. There are 3 things for people in other countries to hate. 1. Government. 2. Military. 3. People. The first 2 are very reasonable things to dislike, for they often come in conflict with foreign country's way of life. The third does not. That is one of the main reasons that 9/11 was so major. It was not an attack on our government or military, it was an attack on the people, who did nothing.

Anyway, them not liking your uncle is very justified, for he was there doing something that could drastically change the way they did things, and they felt threatened by him. Speaking from a civilian POV, I got no such treatment.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara

You obviously, then, have a biased opinion. That admission makes it completely clear what your motivations for hating the Prius and cars like it are. They represent a threat to your personal wealth. You go out and badmouth a car, not because of any of its faults, but because of your own greed.

First - I have NEVER quoted ANYTHING but a fact to make a point in this thread. Get that right. If you can't refute or disprove the facts, do NOT say they're my "opinion" and it's 'obviously biased.' That's completely absurd, and it's borderline stupid. I've very nearly never been so offended in my life. Hell, by your own incomprehensible logic, the fact that you own a Prius makes your 'opinion' biased.

Second, for every Prius sold, they sell five Lincoln Navigators. I already know how much my oil field is going to make me and when it's going to run dry - I've got a contract with an oil company to have it refined, and no amount of Priuses will put a dent in that.

Oh, and, by the way, i've never once seen any sort of public statement that oil finances terrorism, except by Ariana Huffington.

...which is what I was referring to.