2010 Nissan GT-R V Spec Hits the Nürburgring

  • Thread starter Thread starter L_Hamilton
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-> I wonder what would the V-Spec II would be like.

BT-> The '09 revision (+5hp & no more Launch Control) are just the revisions of the Base car. Not the real V-Spec model. I'd rather wait for the official release by Nissan (through Mr. Mizuno or Mr. Ghosn either way) itself.

-> Anyhow, most auto manufacturers are hailing now the they 'beat' the GT-R. With all these ACR (Hard Core), C6 ZR1, and the [997v1] GT2; I think they would not see this one coming. They just defeated the Base car with their hi-po versions of their current cars (SRT10, C6 Z51, [997v1] Carrera), not the soon-to-be hi-po car V-Spec. I would like to see this would end up!
 
Um, please show were Dodge & Chevrolet have been talking about how they beat the GT-R? We all know Porsche made a big stink in the news, but where have the 2 Americans been touting anything like that?
 
Every time I hear that tired old dog about the transmission, I've just got to repost this:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26268

JohnTurbo
As we all know by now, our cars have taken a beating over all the controversy of the weak transmissions and launch control and warranty issues, etc. etc.

Because of all this, many GT-R owners (or prospective owners) are feeling that the transmission is incredibly brittle and will just break at any second -- even when just turning a corner with a lot of gas. So many people are scared that at any moment their GT-R transmission is just going to give out.

I would like to share some info from the 'other' side of this issue...

MY CAR.

I now have well over 50 launches on my car. And, no, I'm not worried about Nissan reading this and voiding my warranty -- I voided that with some mods a LONNNNG time ago. ;-)

As mentioned in my "sorry guys, no 10-second GT-R today" thread, I even said 'screw it' and launched the car at the drag strip to try and get us into the 10s (because we had hit a wall at low 11s.) I was willing to risk breaking the transmission. In fact, at one point I *EXPECTED IT TO*. I was willing to have it break and then spend the money to upgrade the transmission anyway.

BUT IT DIDN'T BREAK.

Now, this doesn't mean there may not be 'residual' damage to my gearbox. Those teeth certainly 'could' be getting damaged more and more with every launch. And it may be just a ticking timebomb that's about to break at any moment.

But I really have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, that's not the case. I really think it's very possibly that only 'some' of the GT-R transmissions are weaker than others. Could have been a materials, quality control, or any other manufacturing issue that 'might' (I'm saying might) have produced a run of gearboxes that weren't as strong as others.

My car now has an estimated 600+HP or so now. I launched the living crap out of that car today. Again. And again. And then some more. I was so anxious to break into the 10s that I was ABUSING THE HELL OUT OF THE CAR. Chuck (or anyone else that was there) can tell you. I BEAT ON that GT-R today. We even had a few "AWD Clutch temp is too high" warnings and had to let the car cool off as a result of launching it hard.

I even did several 'Double Launches' -- I would do a launch to try and heat up the tires, then stage make a drag run using launch control again to take off.

My car is currently FANTASTIC. No problems. It runs awesome. In fact, it feels like it just gets better and better.

I'm certainly not encouraging people to go abuse their cars and start launching them -- that's not my point by creating this thread.

I wanted to 'show the other side' of this tranny controversy but sharing MY EXPERIENCE about MY GT-R. I'm abusing it, beating on it, and pushing it to its limits (maybe) and so far so good. A ROCK SOLID CAR. A great experience. KILLER PERFORMANCE.

Do I have a 'freak' GT-R transmission that just lucked out and was made stronger than many others? (Like some engines run stronger) Or is it that maybe a handful of transmissions that have broken are in the minority and maybe have been part of a bad batch of gearboxes? Or is that maybe all the gearboxes are the same, but when you launch the car it will hold up as long as the transmission fluid is at a certain temperature (one theory I mentioned to Chuck).

I obviously don't know the answer to these questions. But I do know this... I'm getting tired of so many people assuming that ALL GT-R transmissions are weak; because there is no definitive PROOF of this just yet. My car is certainly living proof that (at least for now) not all GT-R gearboxes are weak and will break if put under a bit of stress.

As I said, my tranny may break tomorrow. But so far it's holding up like a Champ. (And then some.)
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*yawn* - and another poster says that other transmission that have broken have done 70-100 launches. Most broken ones were beater press units, though some press units reached the 100 mark before retiring.

If you say "They still break"... well, no sock, Sherlock... all high powered AWD cars with near R-spec rubber break when continuously launched on the dragstrip... old Skylines were infamous for breaking gearboxes at this power-level... Lambos strip clutches, Scoobies and Evos break driveaxles... blah blah blah... you just can't make a case for "fragile" transmissions on the basis of a few guys with really really heavy right feet.

Do I think BMW E46 M3 trannies are fragile? Not really. But you do 15 launch controls and you void the warranty. Hell, even with the new M3 or M5, it's not wise to launch it too often without changing the differential oil... the beater... errh... local M5 test unit is up for sale at half-price... but I'm kind of wondering how bad the diff is by now... the rally driver we rode with a few months ago mentioned it was slipping already... :dopey:

Do I think Lamborghini trannies are... wait... I do... :lol: at least the clutches are a pain in the behind...

----

I'm kinda disappointed... 10 hp and just 2 seconds off on the race track? But the overboost sounds interesting... I'm betting that we might be seeing much more than a 10 hp difference on the dyno.

I know that the Spec-V isn't usually the top-of-the-line model, but I'd been hoping they would do something special.

GT-R R-Tune, anyone?
 
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Am I the only who's thinking that "JohnTurbo" guy is an absolute fool?

I mean, I don't know anything about Nissan's trannies, and nor do I care to study into the new GT-R, but you don't go and abuse such an expensive sportscar to see when the tranny's going to break to say "Hey! You were wrong, it lasted twice as long. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to change a 20k tranny"... :odd:
 
Bram Turismo
Am I the only who's thinking that "JohnTurbo" guy is an absolute fool?

I mean, I don't know anything about Nissan's trannies, and nor do I care to study into the new GT-R, but you don't go and abuse such an expensive sportscar to see when the tranny's going to break to say "Hey! You were wrong, it lasted twice as long. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to change a 20k tranny"... :odd:
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No you aren't the only one who thinks he's a fool. Every time I see that, which tends to be a lot for whatever reason. I'm actually getting sick of seeing one example being touted like it's the be all and end all to the story. I can't help but wonder how much of an idiot that guy is. I mean saying "oh $20k on a trans is nothing for me" is kind of being a bit of a d-bag.

The GT-R is a budget supercar and things are bound to break as speed and cheap/inexpensive do not really bode well together.

Will a upgraded version of the GT-R be stupidly quick? You bet, but putting more power into a car that's already being built on a budget seems like a bad idea at least in terms of reliability.
 
Apart from the fact that the GT-R so far has given absolutely no indication at all that it is unreliable, let alone any less reliable than it's much more expensive competition from the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche. Regardless of your opinions of JohnTurbo and his view of what 20K is worth, the facts are that the only cars to have broken have been absolutely hammered and with constant use of launch control. That will break any car if you over do it, the GT-R isn't exactly breaking on it's first launch, they are taking a lot longer to go than the 6 launches you get from an Enzo. That said, there's still only very, very few GT-R's that have actually broken, one of them had a ridiculous number of launches recorded. You need to get this misconception that GT-R is fragile out of your heads, it's not. Like the car or loath it bashing the car based on lies is not good. Id on't particularly like the GT-R, it's a completely unappealing car to me, but I still think it's a great car from a technical standpoint.
 
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I never said I thought it was unreliable ;) (unless you were directed towards Joey). But what I do think is that following a number of people owning a GT-R provides a more accurate test than only one rich guy to who 20k of cash isn't worth anything. In fact, if a group of 10 owners broke their transmission after 50 launches, and only one guy achieves 200 launches (for example JohnTurbo), I'll rather lean towards the side of those 10 owners group, rather than only that one guy that managed those 200 launches. One person simply cannot give us accurate information about the reliability of a car, but a larger group of persons can.

But on the other side, you don't go and buy the car just for the launch control, unless you're planning to use the launch control system at every stop sign. You don't do such things in any car, regardlessly of the price tag on it. Is the GT-R used in motorsports already? I'm willing to bet all my money that the launch control is being removed as one of the first things when preparing it for a racing modification.
 
I never claimed the car was unreliable either, I merely said that fast and inexpensive do not work well together. Parts will probably wear out quicker and thing will not last as long since things can be designed to both be cheap and strong, especially on cars.

I said an upgraded version of the GT-R could be unreliable due to increase in power over an already existing package that was built with the price in mind. This is not to say all V-specs are going to explode, I don't know and neither does anyone else for that matter except a couple of eggheads at Nissan.
 
Woah, that post sounded like I flamed at you, sorry if you got that impression Joey, that was not my intention :)👍.
 
Bram Turismo
Woah, that post sounded like I flamed at you, sorry if you got that impression Joey, that was not my intention :)👍.
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Not a problem, sometimes it hard to see what's be directed at who on the internet. No worries though :D.
 
Bram Turismo
I never said I thought it was unreliable ;) (unless you were directed towards Joey). But what I do think is that following a number of people owning a GT-R provides a more accurate test than only one rich guy to who 20k of cash isn't worth anything. In fact, if a group of 10 owners broke their transmission after 50 launches, and only one guy achieves 200 launches (for example JohnTurbo), I'll rather lean towards the side of those 10 owners group, rather than only that one guy that managed those 200 launches. One person simply cannot give us accurate information about the reliability of a car, but a larger group of persons can.

But on the other side, you don't go and buy the car just for the launch control, unless you're planning to use the launch control system at every stop sign. You don't do such things in any car, regardlessly of the price tag on it. Is the GT-R used in motorsports already? I'm willing to bet all my money that the launch control is being removed as one of the first things when preparing it for a racing modification.
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Ofcourse, you can't take a single example over a dozen, but we don't have a lot of examples of GT-R breaking, we have very few and one of them was with over 100 launches recorded. You mention 50 launches, but even 50 with Launch control on is a lot more than most high powered cars. I refer you again to the likes of Ferrari, how much do you think they can take. The 599 has launch control, the car accelerates feindishly quick with it on, but it destroys the car quick. No different to the GT-R, no different to other high powered cars. The only people and still it's the few, that are damaging their cars are the ones who are repeatedly using launch control, over and over and over, and lo and behold 100 or so launches later something breaks. As for motor sport, the only one I know of is the NISMO GT-R in the super GT but that share very little with the road car.

Joey D
I never claimed the car was unreliable either, I merely said that fast and inexpensive do not work well together. Parts will probably wear out quicker and thing will not last as long since things can be designed to both be cheap and strong, especially on cars.

I said an upgraded version of the GT-R could be unreliable due to increase in power over an already existing package that was built with the price in mind. This is not to say all V-specs are going to explode, I don't know and neither does anyone else for that matter except a couple of eggheads at Nissan.
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In general you are right, fast and cheap doesn't often work, but that doesn't mean it doesn't always work. I just find it funny that people jump on the anti-GT-R bandwagon on false pretenses then they will defend another car to the grave. I'm not talking about you here, I must have misunderstood part of your earlier post, but people in general come up with some very strange logic to back up an opinion. An upgraded GT-R could have reliability issues, but it might not. We simply don't know at this point. A stock GT-R to date doesn't appear to have any reliability issues, it will break when misused, just like plenty of other cars, especially high performance ones. Over time there may be good reason to doubt the GT-R reliability, but right now there isn't. These few examples of launch control breaking the car all point to overuse of the launch control. Even then there's plenty of press cars that have been launch many times and still work fine.
 
NOT meant to sound like I'm slaggin the GT-R V Spec off, but...

Am I the only one a little underwhelmed by the changes vs the standard version? Seems like all you get is 30bhp more, ceramic stoppers and Bilstien suspension... the rest is just cosmetic.

Not sure how that equates to 2 seconds a lap.

I was expecting something much more radical... Where's the 300kg+ of weight saving it really needs?

And how much is 17 million yen anyway?
 
Stotty
NOT meant to sound like I'm slaggin the GT-R V Spec off, but...

Am I the only one a little underwhelmed by the changes vs the standard version? Seems like all you get is 30bhp more, ceramic stoppers and Bilstien suspension... the rest is just cosmetic.

Not sure how that equates to 2 seconds a lap.

I was expecting something much more radical... Where's the 300kg+ of weight saving it really needs?

And how much is 17 million yen anyway?
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The V-Spec isn't the track version, it's just a premium model in the GT-R range. The track version is further off and is called the GT-R Evolution or something like that. As for 2 seconds a lap, on the Ring I can see it, the power won't make much difference but brake and suspension improvements could easily allow for it on that track.
 
Stotty
Am I the only one a little underwhelmed by the changes vs the standard version? Seems like all you get is 30bhp more, ceramic stoppers and Bilstien suspension... the rest is just cosmetic.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much in the same boat. No doubt it will be fast, just like the "regular" GT-R, but it doesn't add that much more to the "hey, you should care about what I am" factor.

Then again, I get all googly eyed over new Mustang models that are essentially the same. Go figure.
 
Bram Turismo
Am I the only who's thinking that "JohnTurbo" guy is an absolute fool?

I mean, I don't know anything about Nissan's trannies, and nor do I care to study into the new GT-R, but you don't go and abuse such an expensive sportscar to see when the tranny's going to break to say "Hey! You were wrong, it lasted twice as long. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to change a 20k tranny"... :odd:
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RE: JohnTurbo... read him again... he's not encouraging people to go out and rag on their cars... he's a dedicated dragger with a highly-modified car... in other words, he knows the risks, he knows the costs, and he's willing to play. He's already said that his car can't be taken as representative, and he might have a freakishly strong transmission, but he's pointing out, rightly, that you also can't generalize everyone else's cars from one guy who's broken his transmission with fewer launches (which, as Dave A and I are trying to point out, is much more than some other supercars are warranted for or can actually stand.)

$20k is a lot for guys like you and me, but these are guys out there who breathe fuel for breakfast... want to break records, and want to go effin' fast. Take a look at one of the fastest Skylines out there, Ex Vi Termini... that car eats drivetrains for lunch. There's a guy here who's got a 1000 hp R34 Skyline (about 800++++ to the wheels)... rumor has it he spent Ferrari money to get that car... shipped to the US for LHD conversion, shipped to Australia for tuning and parts, and then shipped it over here... he keeps the car in the shop on display just for bragging rights... I haven't seen it run the quarter-mile, but I've heard it's effin' fast.

This same guy now has an R35 to play with. Think he'll go easy on the car or wail about breaking his transmission on the racetrack?

Sure, RWD, ultimately, makes for faster dragsters... but that's the whole fun of trying. :dopey:

---

The whole idea of "fragile" transmissions is just overblown. People hear a guy has blown a transmission after just two months. They go "Damn, that's weak!"... then they hear that's two months and 20 launches... They think about it... their grocery getter can do that many and suffer nothing more than a burnt clutch... they still think "Damn, that's weak!"... without considering that a car with similar power, grip and traction can chew through a clutch in just one day of dragging, and some can strip teeth right off the gears with that many launches. Heck, when I upgraded my tires, I roasted my second clutch in one-tenth the time it took me to roast my first... and popped one or two engine mounts, to boot.

Like everything about the GT-R, it's all hoopla. Like the "warranty-void-if-brought-to-the-racetrack-unless-given-an-expensive-checkup" issue. People jumped all over it without realizing that no street-car is warrantied for track (off-road) use. Some dealers may turn a blind eye to it, but again, that's not corporate policy.

Yes, it's a relatively cheap performance car. Doesn't mean Nissan has to make it indestructible enough to survive the idiots who are going to buy it. At least it doesn't spontaneously combust for no apparent reason... :lol:

fez1ou6.jpg
 
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Its basically an automated system in which the computer is able to actively control the throttle and clutch (in sequential systems, usually) to create the best conditions possible for a clean, fast launch. Ferrari has been putting it to good use for years on their cars, and it would eventually pop up in BMWs, Volkswagens, and even now in Chevrolets.
 
Depends. Its pretty much just a fancy way of showing off how cool your car is with your fancy transmission, nothing else. Poor design can cause problems, as Nissan has seen with the feature in the GT-R. Volkswagen, BMW, Ferrari, and the like have all been extremely cautious with its inclusion in their vehicles. Some would "have it," but it would otherwise be disabled (I'm thinking of the initial run of MKV GTIs here in the US), or it just isn't there (early F430s had that, as I recall).

The odd thing is that they're applying it to more and more things these days. I seem to recall it being a feature on the Cobalt SS Turbo, despite having a standard transmission. It seems like it was something on the Caliber SRT-4 as well.

I'd likely never get around to using it, too expensive to fix if something goes wrong, but some people like to screw around to show off.
 
Ferrar doesn't include in US cars because it breaks boxes. Like with the GT-R, there's a "secret" unlock code... "secret" in that they don't tell you in the manual how to do it, but owners already know, anyway.

BMW has had it since the E46 M3... but warranty differed for US spec cars (less launches) and current "M" products in the US have a "softer" launch control (lower rpms) than European products to protect the drivetrain... plus a code that prevents multiple launches too close to each other to keep the drivetrain from blowing up... maybe that's what Nissan should have put in instead of removing it completley...

Yeah, yeah... Nissan didn't do its homework... they didn't delete Launch Control from the first run of GT-Rs in the US. And they suffered the bad publicity for it. You live, you learn. :lol:
 
Will the GTR match it's 0-60 performance claims without launch control? Generally, automated manuals need some sort of launch control to enable you to build the revs up before the clutch engages... otherwise they are very sluggish off the line.
 
No, but unless you're starting a lap from a standing start...or *shudder* drag-racing, or *shudder-shudder* street racing, It shouldn't matter.
 
Most GTR's will spend so little time on the track that it's pretty much irrelevant.

However, in general driving there will be times you want to pull away from standstill faster than others... might be that you're feeling like 'giving it death' once in a while, or just want to show someone 'what she'll do'.

If you wanted to do this in a normal car you bring up the revs then let the clutch out in a manner that was appropriate to that particular vehicle. I owned an Impreza that worked best if you gave it the red line then dumped the clutch, but my current 911 requires a bit more sympathy to avoid massive tramp.

In an automated manual without launch control you have no option but to just stamp on the gas pedal and hope for the best... no way is this going to give you optimum standing start acceleration, particularly in something turbocharged, where you're trying to start from tickover (or a little above) vs say engaging the clutch at 4K or 6K (or whatever works best).

Claims of 0-60 in 3.7 seconds (or whatever) become a little silly if the ability to deliver the claim isn't available to the owners.
 
3.7 is without LC. Sub-4 second times have been done in real-world testing without it.

What you do need LC for is to get those incredible times that magazines have achieved (about 3.3 - 3.5 seconds).

Like with the Porsche, use of high-revs under LC causes lots of wheel-hop... which may be partially responsible for drivetrain carnage (though again... very few cars have suffered early catastrophic failure).

Very few cars with claimed 0-60 times of under 5 seconds can actually achieve that on the road, given the varying levels of grip and preparation. I still find it nearly impossible to match any Car&Driver time (stupid SAE correction... how do you apply a correction to seconds? Are SAE seconds longer than metric? :lol: )... and any US time, for that matter. Seems you can't match US magazine times without a drag-strip (European magazine times seem more representative of "real-world" conditions).

Of course owners can match acceleration times. Go to a drag-strip, warm up the car and transmission properly, prep the tires, and go. Private cars have already matched the manufacturer's estimate for quarter mile times... without the use of LC.

Oh, another example of a GT-R with numerous launches and lots of track time with no problems:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2009-nissan-gtr/

Since that time, we've track tested our GT-R twice, used launch control numerous times and ran it hard on the Streets of Willow road course during our GT-R versus ZR1 comparison test. The VDC was off and nothing broke. And this was on a car with over 11,000 miles on it, 5,000 of those miles since the new transaxle was installed. Drove it home last night and the car felt fine.

Again, we're not saying the GT-R doesn't have its problems, but when someone says they barely ever used launch control and suddenly their transmission imploded, you wonder if there's more to the story. We would be glad to hear them if people really want to vent, but for now we'll just keep driving our GT-R as hard as ever - "delicate" transmission and all.

Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor @ 12,171 miles
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