3 series or GTSt?

[Bollocks#999]

In about 18 months I should be in a position to buy a new (second hand) car, and after what a mate of mine showed me last night, my thoughts on this have changed somewhat

I swore that I wouldnt mention the price of the BMW he bought but needless to say this car does look nice and is around the same price as a Nissan Skyline GTSt

Being one of the staunchest skyline fans that I know I feel I'm going to be torn with this decision

As I mentioned i have around 18 months, any suggestions?

 

[rollazn]

Depends on what you desire for, being such a big Skyline fan myself, I would prefer the Skyline. The 3 series is more of a sport sedan/ luxury car. It depends on what you wish for or what you like.

As you said, you are a true skyline aficionado; if that were the case, I would undeniably go for the Skyline.

I am not taking anything away from the BMW. It is great although for the price, I would take the Skyline.

It all goes down to your individual preference. I think the BMW and the Skyline are diverse cars and you should pick yourself.

 

[SkylineObsession]

They both sound awesome (exhaust note wise) so i don't know. Which is more comfortable? Which has better fuel economy? Think about those sorts of things.

I'll hopefully be getting a job soon as i want to buy the Skyline off of Dad before the end of this year. I'm a huge Skyline fan myself.

 

[Carlover325]

As people have said it is personal preferance. But if you want my opinion: Skyline all the way. I love most BMWs, just not the 3 series. No offense to any 3 series fans.

 

[Victor Vance]

I'd take the latest Skyline (or Infiniti G35), although I think the coupe is the 350GT or something...

 

[Josh]

I don't care if it's a 318ti vs. an R34, or what-ever-the-hell-they're-called, I'd take the BMW.

 

[Ottoman]

what year/model is the bmw?

I own a GTR.. and have driven many Bmws (my parents '95 325iS, my friends '02 330Ci, '04 M3, '99 740iL and some others)

mabe it's just me, but when i think skyline i think GTR... it just isn't the same without the Flared wheel wells and body kit and spoiler and such... (not 4wd either)

and btw... GTR is a heavy car.. and the RB25DET stock doesn't really push the car that fast...

I raced a GTS-T in my Nissan 200SX (S13) rollin and i beat him pretty compfortably...

i say if u're gonna do it, do it right.. save up some more and buy a GTR...
or just get the bimmer (still dunno which bimmer u're talking about tho)

 

[SkylineObsession]

and btw... GTR is a heavy car.. and the RB25DET stock doesn't really push the car that fast...

RB25DET?
That is the engine in the R33 GTS25-t.

RB26DETT - R32/R33/R34 GT-R
RB20DET - R32 GTS-t/GTS-4

 

[Bollocks#999]

The BMW in question is a 1998 318i, silver with a set of 17" wheels(optioned) on it, I'll guess I'll see in 18 months or so as to what I really want

MM: I know you're a big Skyline fan

 

[rollazn]

I don't care if it's a 318ti vs. an R34, or what-ever-the-hell-they're-called, I'd take the BMW.

👍 Personal preferences. However, I just don't know why you would take a 318ti over a R34 (You are talking about the GTR model right)? If so, even if I was all BMW, I would take the Skyline and sell it. Make money on the side and that will give you enough to pay many things off.

I do not see why anyone would take a 328 over a R34 GTR or any other GTR models.

I know its personal preferences but what reasons or why did you make that choice?

Bollocks#999 said a BMW 318i, which compared to the GTR performance wise is a no contest. Nevertheless, Bollocks#999 did not compare it to a GTR, he said a GTsT. Which is an rwd 4 door version of the GTR, it is slower and weaker.

BMW 318i= Sport Sedan/ Luxury
Skyline GTsT = Sport Sedan

Hey, Bullocks, what year Skyline?

 

[Victor Vance]

I think the can whip any non-M BMW 3-series at a cheap price

Hare's a comparison:

330xi

Weight
Unladen 3483 (3538) lbs
Weight distribution, front/rear - Manual Transmission 52.2/47.8 %
Weight distribution, front/rear - Automatic Transmission 52.5/47.5%
Ground clearance 5.55 inch
Engine
Liter/type 3.0/inline 6
Bore/stroke 3.31/3.53 inch
Nominal output/rpm 225/5900 hp
Max. torque/rpm 214/3500 lb-ft
Compression ratio 10.2 :1
Fuel grade Unleaded premium
Transmission
Manual gear ratios - I/II 4.35/2.50 :1
Manual gear ratios - III/IV 1.66/1.23 :1
Manual gear ratios - V/VI/R 1.00/0.85/3.93 :1
Manual gear ratios - Final drive ratio 3.07 :1
Automatic gear ratios - I/II 3.42/2.22 :1
Automatic gear ratios - III/IV 1.60/1.00 :1
Automatic gear ratios - V/R 0.75/3.03 :1
Automatic gear ratios - Final drive ratio 3.46 :1
Performance
Drag coefficient 0.31 Cd
Top speed 2 128 mph
Acceleration 0-60 mph 3 6.9 (7.5) sec
Fuel Consumption 4
6-speed manual transmission - City 20 mpg
6-speed manual transmission - Highway 29 mpg
5-speed automatic transmission - City 18 mpg
5-speed automatic transmission - Highway 25 mpg
Tires, wheels and brakes 5
Tire dimensions - (standard - all-season) 205/50R-17
Wheel dimensions - (standard) 17x7.0
Material Cast alloy
Brake dimensions (standard) - front - vented 12.8 inch
Brake dimensions (standard) - rear - vented 12.6 inch

MSRP: $37,645

Infiniti G35 Sedan/G35X (V35 Nissan Skyline)

Engine type 3.5 liter V6
Drive type Rear-wheel drive/Optional All-wheel drive
Horsepower 260 @ 6,000 RPM
Torque 260 lb-ft @ 4,800 RPM
Suspension Front: Independent, forged-aluminum multi-link with coil springs over ripple-control shock absorbers, stabilizer bar.
Rear: Independent, forged-aluminum multi-link with coil springs, outboard ripple-control shock absorbers, stabilizer bar.
Valvetrain DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder with microfinished camshafts and Continuously Variable Valve Timing Control System (CVTCS) for intake valves.
Intake system High-flow induction system
Compression ratio 10.3:1
Brake rotor dimensions
Standard 11.7" x 0.9" front rotors/11.5" x 0.6" rear rotors
ABS type Computer-controlled 4-channel, 4-sensor with Electronic Brake force Distribution and Brake Assist
Turning diameter 36.0 feet
Wheels
Base, Leather Model 6-spoke 7.0" x 17" aluminum-alloy wheels
Leather 6MT Model 5-spoke 7.0" x 17" aluminum-alloy wheels
Tires
Base, Leather Model 215/55R17 V-rated all-season performance
Leather 6MT Model 215/55R17 W-rated performance

Exterior Dimensions (inches) Back to Top
Wheelbase 112.2
Overall length 186.5
Overall width 69.0
Overall height 57.7
Track (front/rear) 59.1/59.3
Coefficient of drag 0.27 Cd/0.26 Cd with available Aero Package

Interior Dimensions (inches) Back to Top
Head room (front/rear) 40.1/37.9
Leg room (front/rear) 43.6/33.6
Shoulder room (front/rear) 56.4/55.5
Hip room (front/rear) 52.2/54.1

Capacities Back to Top
Interior volume 98.0 cubic feet without sunroof, 95.5 cubic feet with sunroof
Cargo volume 14.8 cubic feet (11.8 when equipped with optional full-size spare tire)
Curb weight
Base model 3,336 lbs
Leather model 3,369 lbs
Leather 6MT model 3,398 lbs
AWD Leather model 3,677 lbs
Fuel capacity 20 gallons

2003 EPA Fuel Economy Estimates (city/highway)
5-speed automatic 18/26
6-speed manual 20/27
AWD 17/24

MSRP/AWD: $28,740.00/$32,690.00

Now, although I couldn't find any 'official' specs on the 330xi, I can tell you this much: I'm a regular reader of Motor Trend, Car&Driver, Road&Track and AutoWeek, and a M/T comparison against a 330i and a G35 Sedan (Skyline) revealed, not suprisingly, a roomier rear seating, only slightly diminished handling comapred to the 330, an overall better ride balance, and, hey, you're saving quite a pretty penny, evon on the G35x (Skyline AWD). Factor in that you're gaining 40 horsepower and losing only around 100 or so pounds and the answer is easy: There's a damn good reason the G35 (Skyline) is Motor Trend's 2003 Car of the Year. Plus, it arguably has better heritage as a single model

 

[///M-Spec]

If you decide on a BMW, I recommend a 325/323 minimum. The 318 is woefully underpowered.

I think the can whip any non-M BMW 3-series at a cheap price

I think the G35 does 95% of what a 3 series does at a much better price point. "Whipping" would be an overstatement.


M

 

[Victor Vance]

Well, ok, as Smallhorses would say, 'mildly steam' the 330...

And what you said... reminds me of that Mercedes vs. Pontiac GTO comparison. 'The GTO can do about 90% of what the Benz can do at half the price'.

 

[///M-Spec]

Well, ok, as Smallhorses would say, 'mildly steam' the 330...

And what you said... reminds me of that Mercedes vs. Pontiac GTO comparison. 'The GTO can do about 90% of what the Benz can do at half the price'.

First, I've had this same exact conversation too many times for me to put much effort in it. I extensively test drove both cars in question. For me, the 330i is a better car overall than the G35. There is a hefty price premium for this advantage, but BMW's free maintanence and the 3-series' vastly superior resale value, negtates this advantage when both cars are similarly equiped. Why do people constantly harp on price, but never look into resale?

Second, this thread is NOT about the current 3-Series NOR is it about the G35/Skyline. If you look at the original poster's mention of a 1998 318i, you'll realize he is not in the market for either car because of comparative price range.


M

 

[Victor Vance]

When you're going to run a car into the ground (liky my family typically does) over a 20-year period, resale value doesn't matter much. Case in point: Used Car Wholesale Luqidators on Route 9 currently has a 1985 Mercedes SL-something for $1350 and a 1988 Z for $1425. Thay're only seperated by 29,000 miles. (Benz: 235,000; Z: 264,000)

 

[rollazn]

Victor Vance, where did you get the G35 from? This thread is not about the G35 or the current skyline 350GT (aka G35). It is about the 318i vs. a Skyline GTSt.

I think when he meant Skyline GTSt, he was talking about the sedan model of the R32 - R34. Because those were GTSt. I do not think it is a R34, because I think that the sedan for R34 is GT-T.

Therefore, I am guessing he is talking about a R32 sedan or R33. He has not clarified which one yet.

Skyline GTsT is so broad, care to narrow it down bollocks.

The Skyline Sedan model (GTSt) does not have the same engine as the GTR’s.

They have the RB20DET or RB25DET, they are not twin turbo and has less displacement.

 

[///M-Spec]

When you're going to run a car into the ground (liky my family typically does) over a 20-year period, resale value doesn't matter much. Case in point: Used Car Wholesale Luqidators on Route 9 currently has a 1985 Mercedes SL-something for $1350 and a 1988 Z for $1425. Thay're only seperated by 29,000 miles. (Benz: 235,000; Z: 264,000)

Well heck, if you're going to amortize the car over 20 years, then it makes even less sense to trump up the price difference.

Over a period of 20 years, the cost difference between a loaded 330i and a loaded G35 comes out to about 68 cents a day. ($5,000/7,300 days)

So for less than the price of an average candy bar over 20 years, you can have the better car.


M

 

[Elstro]

Get a Skyline! 3-series are usually driven by assholes who think they own the road!

 

[Ev0]

Go for a skyline. You're in a part of the world that hasn't been deprived of such an excellent car, so please, get the Skyline. BMWs are ok, but a Skyline GTS completely owns the BMW in performance. Just get the BMW if you're concerned about luxury and comfort though...

 

[Victor Vance]

Well heck, if you're going to amortize the car over 20 years, then it makes even less sense to trump up the price difference.

Over a period of 20 years, the cost difference between a loaded 330i and a loaded G35 comes out to about 68 cents a day. ($5,000/7,300 days)

So for less than the price of an average candy bar over 20 years, you can have the better car.


M

C'mon, a bulletproof VQ versus those German reliability-clunkers? Once you pass up the BMW warranty, with each and every service stop you'll wish you had the Skyline/G35. If this is even a R34, 33, or 32, I'd still take the Skyline. It's a cheaper, more reliable car in the long run.

(Did you know? If you don't use the specific $6.50 a quart Mobil 1 oil for your M3, if you blow the engine it isn't warranted? Those money-greedy Germans )

BTW, if you're not interested in a stock-tune car, the GTS is a mich better choice. Aside from Dinan, who are worth the money for squeezing performance out of your, say M5, I dunno aobut BMW tuners. The Skyline, obviously on the other hand, has a broad tuning market.

 

[SkylineObsession]

I think when he meant Skyline GTSt, he was talking about the sedan model of the R32 - R34. Because those were GTSt. I do not think it is a R34, because I think that the sedan for R34 is GT-T.

Therefore, I am guessing he is talking about a R32 sedan or R33. He has not clarified which one yet.

There is only one GTS-t (220 hp) and that is the 1989-1992 R32 models. The R33's version is the GTS25-t (250 hp) and the R34's is the GT-T (270 hp+).

GTS-t's come in manual or automatic four or two door models.

The Skyline Sedan model (GTSt) does not have the same engine as the GTR’s.

They have the RB20DET or RB25DET, they are not twin turbo and has less displacement.

2.0 litre, single turbo producing roughly 217 hp. It shares the same engine with the 4WD GTS-4 (R32).

 

[rollazn]

There is only one GTS-t (220 hp) and that is the 1989-1992 R32 models. The R33's version is the GTS25-t (250 hp) and the R34's is the GT-T (270 hp+).

GTS-t's come in manual or automatic four or two door models.

2.0 litre, single turbo producing roughly 217 hp. It shares the same engine with the 4WD GTS-4 (R32).

Well yeah, The R33 is GTS25-t but there are people who just calls it GTS-t, but if you want to go correctly all the way, then yes your right.

Yeah, I knew it was either the 2.0L or 2.5L, which Skyline actually use a RB25DET? I know that there is only one twin turbo engine, and its the RB26DETT, the rest are single turbo and has less displacement.

About the R34 GT-T, 270hp + is a pretty broad statement, do you know the real hp output or are you just guessing?

Anyways, thanks for the corrections Mustang Man.

 

[SkylineObsession]

Well i know one of the R34's has close to the power of a GT-R and 270 hp is pretty close. I'll have to find out for sure as i don't know too much about R34's.

And;

RB25DE - R32 GTS25
RB25DET - R33 GTS25-t

 

[rollazn]

Haha. Yeah, I forgot about the R33 GTS25-T. Of course the 25 means 2.5L.

Anyways, yeah. GT-T is actually very famous at least in Hong Kong. (Chaser Fan provide us alot of pictures). The reason is probably because they are cheaper than the GT-R, and not that much weaker. The downside is of course lack of the Altessa!

 

[Bollocks#999]

I was thinking the R33 (thanks for the clarification MM)

A GTR would be the obvious choice for any Skyline fan, but I can make do with a RWD turbo if I do decide to go that way

It would beat the R31 that I presently own in any case, as would a 3 series

 

[skunk]

The BMW 3 series is an amazing car for the price. Sporty and luxurious. It has a great value.

I would buy the BMW anyday.

 

[SkylineObsession]

Complex String 100 laps - 6:55.52 Car: TVR Speed 6
Apricot Hill 4 Hour - 241 laps - Car TVR Speed 6
Laguna Seca 500 - 4:43:21.226 Winner Car: Pagani Zonda C12s
SSR11 225 Laps - 6:29:47.593 Car: Pagani Zonda C12s
Midfield 300 - Waiting to be completed

*tisk* *tisk*

 

[///M-Spec]

C'mon, a bulletproof VQ versus those German reliability-clunkers?

The M50 family of motors are just as stout and long lived as the VQ series. They've won the same fancy "Engines of the Year" awards. They make better specific power than the VQ and sound better while doing it. The M50 has been around even longer than the VQ and still have more development left in them.

Next year the next 3.0 liter M56 evolution will the same hp as the current VQ 3.5 while qualifying as an LEV and maintain current consumption figures.

As for the general reliablity of German cars compared to Nissan's track record, I suggest you support your conjecture with some hard facts.

Once you pass up the BMW warranty, with each and every service stop you'll wish you had the Skyline/G35.

I've owned several BMWs beyond the warranty period. Never once did I wish I had a Skyline or a G35.

Have you owned a BMW or a Skyline?

If this is even a R34, 33, or 32, I'd still take the Skyline. It's a cheaper, more reliable car in the long run.

See the first part of my post.

(Did you know? If you don't use the specific $6.50 a quart Mobil 1 oil for your M3, if you blow the engine it isn't warranted? Those money-greedy Germans )

Mobil One you can buy for $4.32 a quart at Walmart. The '01+ M3 engine requires 10w-60 because the piston speeds in the S54 approach that of an F1 car. Castrol mixes it up especially for BMW and the reason its so expensive is obvious: look into a concept called economies of scale and supply and demand.

But this is another pointless dead end argument to make because during the entire warranty period, BMW PAYS FOR ALL SCHEDULED OIL CHANGES ANYWAY. So the exotic oil change costs an M3 owner.... ummm.. NOTHING.

BTW, if you're not interested in a stock-tune car, the GTS is a mich better choice. Aside from Dinan, who are worth the money for squeezing performance out of your, say M5, I dunno aobut BMW tuners. The Skyline, obviously on the other hand, has a broad tuning market.

The BMW aftermarket, particularly in the US, is quite strong. Price is competative with high-end imports and the quality is generally top-notch. Dinan stuff however, is over-priced trash. What he is good at engineering is effective marketing.

If you want cheap aftermarket, buy a Civic or a Mustang.


M

 

[Ottoman]

Ask yourself this Q... do u want a sports car? or a daily driver? do u want to impress guys or girls with your car?

the 3 series isn't such a fast car.. but's deffinately a looker.. and has lotsa creature comforts...

the Skyline comprises alot of these things inorder to bring
somewhat "performance" to u...


I own and Drive a GTR.. and my friend has an M3 (had a 330Ci before that)

my car is faster yes... but his car is deffinately Nicer to use Daily and drive around and cruise in... cold AC SMG GPRS, Harmon Kardon Sound, power everything, soft leather.. etc etc... and besides... ppl of the opposite sex don't even know what a skyline or a GTR is...:S


I sit on Cloth Recaro style seats (get uncomfortable in long distances) my KYB adjustable suspension handles nice.. but man i feel every bump and crack on the road gets tiring... my exhaust is louder, my car is turbo so i hafta be more weary about warm up and cool down periods... etc etc...

RB25DET?
That is the engine in the R33 GTS25-t.

RB26DETT - R32/R33/R34 GT-R
RB20DET - R32 GTS-t/GTS-4

ya typo my bad.. I meant GTS25-T instead of GTS-T... was goin to quick.. forget 2 Digits

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Forget the GTS-t. The ones I've seen and been in were underwhelming, to say the least. In all honesty, the interior on the R33 I saw the other day was shockingly similar to the interior on my S14. And the power isn't that much greater, and is ofset by the weight.

If I were you, I'd forget the BMW and the Skyline, and get a Silvia / 200SX instead.