Audi engine in F1 in 2016 isn't happening

  • Thread starter Legro
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I don't know, I just don't see the reason for it. Why would Audi Go to F1, a series they have said does not at all fit in their agenda of trickling technology to Street cars?
 
VAG have two brands in the WEC, Audi and Porsche, it wouldn't make sense to have one of those brands in F1 too. So that leaves Skoda, Seat and Volkswagen badged engines if VAG wants in on F1.

Or Lamborghini, of course, who did have two seasons' experience back in 1991-92 when they were owned by Chrysler.
 
They have 7 brands that they could potentially use for Motorsport. Porsche is far more relevant for sportscar racing. Bugatti would be pointless, Lamborghini would make a lot of sense. I don't see SEAT or Skoda being particularly worthwhile as they are not global brands (are they?)... So Audi or VW....

.. either way, if they are on about leaving the DTM, that would suck a bit.
 
Audi ending their LMP1 program would make some sense, though. It isn't really good for VAG to have two brands competing against each other in WEC. If Audi is going to end the program, F1 wouldn't be so bad move from them.

Of course VAG owns Bentley too, but I don't see them joining F1.
 
Legro
Audi ending their LMP1 program would make some sense, though. It isn't really good for VAG to have two brands competing against each other in WEC.
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They sure don't seem to have a problem with this in many of the GT3 series, In particular the Blancpain series (Especially with the addition of Bentley, another VAG brand). Also doesn't appear to be an issue in WTCC either so I don't see how its an issue in WEC.

Also, what would Audi have to gain from F1? Its never been relevant to Road cars so I don't see anything that'd be favorable for Audi.

SVT Cobra GT
Out of the VAG stable, Lamborghini makes most sense for F1
Ferrari rivalry and all that.
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Why are people so obsessed with this? I highly doubt the brands give a crap about what each other is doing so this just seems like a silly fanboy fantasy.
 
RACECAR
They sure don't seem to have a problem with this in many of the GT3 series, In particular the Blancpain series (Especially with the addition of Bentley, another VAG brand). Also doesn't appear to be an issue in WTCC either so I don't see how its an issue in WEC.

Also, what would Audi have to gain from F1? Its never been relevant to Road cars so I don't see anything that'd be favorable for Audi.



Why are people so obsessed with this? I highly doubt the brands give a crap about what each other is doing so this just seems like a silly fanboy fantasy.
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All things are relative to budget. It does not make sense to pour hundreds and hundreds of millions into two LMP projects. 911's, R8's, and Lamborghinis are sold as race cars, sales of these cars at between €250,000 - €400,000 a car make a business case for themselves... you get coverage, and make a profit. In LMP1 however, at best, half your money is being spent on the first looser, in one series.

As for the brands not giving a crap... VW AG holds the purse strings, they care.
edit: sorry, read that last bit out of context.
 
MatskiMonk
All things are relative to budget. It does not make sense to pour hundreds and hundreds of millions into two LMP projects. 911's, R8's, and Lamborghinis are sold as race cars, sales of these cars at between €250,000 - €400,000 a car make a business case for themselves... you get coverage, and make a profit. In LMP1 however, at best, half your money is being spent on the first looser, in one series.

As for the brands not giving a crap... VW AG holds the purse strings, they care.
edit: sorry, read that last bit out of context.
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2 LMP1 programs are a hell of a lot cheaper than a competetive F1 program. This rumor has been floating around ever since it was announced Porsche was returnibg to P, its always been pure speculation.
 
SVT Cobra GT
Out of the VAG stable, Lamborghini makes most sense for F1

Ferrari rivalry and all that.
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Actually ... Lamborghini wasn't a brand that had racing as an objective, and the late 80's (or early 90's?) F1 adventure was a very weak attempt at changing Lambo's DNA. Old man Ferruccio wanted his cars to be desirable and even the Miura started out as a engineer project, later allowed to enter production but never raced.

Audi, however, is the direct descendant of Auto Union. Can't have more noble Grand Prix heritage than that.
 
aarror
2 LMP1 programs are a hell of a lot cheaper than a competetive F1 program. This rumor has been floating around ever since it was announced Porsche was returnibg to P, its always been pure speculation.
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I doubt they are a hell of a lot cheaper. I heard a lot of talk about Audi's budget being in the F1 region. Even if it was low-end F1, given the relative difference in publicity between the two series (i.e. man in pub does not know what the WEC is, most people know what F1 is), a single F1 team makes more sense to me than multiple WEC teams.

I'm not saying the rumour is true, but it makes sense.
 
Hun200kmh
Actually ... Lamborghini wasn't a brand that had racing as an objective, and the late 80's (or early 90's?) F1 adventure was a very weak attempt at changing Lambo's DNA. Old man Ferruccio wanted his cars to be desirable and even the Miura started out as a engineer project, later allowed to enter production but never raced.

Audi, however, is the direct descendant of Auto Union. Can't have more noble Grand Prix heritage than that.
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I know they never had racing in mind from the start and Audi being descendants of Auto Union making it ideal for them.

But as Audi are in the WEC alongside Porsche, to me Lamborghini sounds like a better alternative.
 
MatskiMonk
I doubt they are a hell of a lot cheaper. I heard a lot of talk about Audi's budget being in the F1 region. Even if it was low-end F1, given the relative difference in publicity between the two series (i.e. man in pub does not know what the WEC is, most people know what F1 is), a single F1 team makes more sense to me than multiple WEC teams.

I'm not saying the rumour is true, but it makes sense.
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I think he could be right... I've read that Audi's LMP budget is around £120M, that would make it half as expensive as the Red Bull or Ferrari budgets of 235M and 250M respectively.

Can't find a source for the Audi budget, but found this quote from Audi supremo Dr. Ulrich;

BBC
To put things into perspective, in recent years the cost of running a mid-grid team in Formula 1 has been more than $200m.

"For a budget like that," says Dr Ullrich, "I could do touring cars, Le Mans and the American Le Mans Series for several years."
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Source.
 
It probably won't happen, but i imagine an Audi powered constructors trophy would sit rather well on the VAG mantelpiece.. Considering Mercedes are one their market share competitors. (works both ways though - Le mans WEC)
 
Wow, if they've hired Domenicali then this story might be onto something. I genuinely thought he'd go back to Ferrari once order was restored.

It was always thought that if VAG appeared in F1 it would be as Porsche but given that Porsche are fresh into LMP and that Audi must be worrying about becoming a stale winner (a la Ferrari or Red Bull in F1) an Audi move to F1 actually makes sense for the first time ever.
 
With the success that Audi has had in ELMS/ALMS/WEC and the 24 Hours of Le Mans there is no way in heck they'd leave just to be in bloody F1. F1's costs are getting stupid, need I bring up the cost for the winning Mercedes? 600 million anybody? VW AG isn't going to be stupid and just pop Audi aside just because Porsche is now there...they allowed them to comeback anyway. It's just a rumour that people love to bring up every year. The only Formula racing that any VW AG brand would do, would probably be Indycar with either a Porsche or VW engine and aerokit for the DW12.

Besides, the coverage that both Porsche and Audi will be getting at Le Mans next year will be nutty as Porsche and Audi compete for the most wins ever at the 24. VW AG is going to enjoy that I believe.
 
For Audi to announce a full blown F1 operation I would be very surprised... For starters, things have really started to become interesting in WEC, four manufacturers, a big ex-F1 name and at least two world champions being linked to various teams. Jouest know what they are doing and are still the top performers in WEC, why create a second high-end LMP1 team if you then go and re-purpose the older experienced team with a load of engineers from F1 anyway?

If VAG appear in F1 I suspect it will be using their LMP1 engine tech as a new power train supplier, they'd be perfect for it. However, if teams start dropping like flies then Bernie might have to make VAG an offer they couldnt refuse.
 
Audi were originally looking at joining Formula 1 this year. That's why the original engine regulations called for inline-fours - it's what Audi wanted. But even then, they lost interest in it, and the FIA went to V6s instead. So why would Audi suddenly change their minds like that?
 
It really is a strange one but if you look at VAG, it makes sense for Audi to venture into F1. Simply because (although they're two different companies) Porsche may steal Audi's thunder in the Le mans/WEC. So taking on Mercedes would seem the next logical step (in my opinion).
 
Nessy
It really is a strange one but if you look at VAG, it makes sense for Audi to venture into F1. Simply because (although they're two different companies) Porsche may steal Audi's thunder in the Le mans/WEC. So taking on Mercedes would seem the next logical step (in my opinion).
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Nope. For one thing F1 is wounded and not doing so hot. Secondly, Porsche and Audi are the pieces of the growing LMP1 category and are rivals: Audi the "new" champions, with legendary Porsche coming back to defend their legacy. Besides, again, VW AG let Porsche back into the mix. Audi is staying in WEC, and so is Porsche. Not many actual car manufactures are interested in F1 besides Ferrari, Mercedes, Honda and Renault. Only 2 teams are manufactures that make the car and drivetrain, Ferrari and Mercedes. F1's going to even struggle to put 22 cars on the grid next year. VW AG knows that WEC is growing in popularity, and that it is the best world championship series right now...F1 has lost its identity and needs to get it back.
 
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catamount39
For one thing F1 is wounded and not doing so hot.
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That's a matter of opinion. Whatever Formula 1's problems are, it will be easier for them to recover than it will be for the World Endurance Championship to supersede Formula 1 as the world's premier form of motorsport. The WEC still has a very, very long way to go before it can come close to claiming that.
 
prisonermonkeys
That's a matter of opinion. Whatever Formula 1's problems are, it will be easier for them to recover than it will be for the World Endurance Championship to supersede Formula 1 as the world's premier form of motorsport. The WEC still has a very, very long way to go before it can come close to claiming that.
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F1 needs to stop adding gimics, and making the race artificial. Granted you're correct, it's a matter of opinion and yes they still have great prestige. But if they aren't careful they are going to start suffering from their decisions. Partly its Bernie needs to go. I love F1, have so for years...but its losing its zing. Partly because of the fuel regulation. WEC has perfected that and its perfect for WEC...but F1 should be about raw speed not conservation.
 
Bernie isn't the problem. The teams are.

Why do you think the gimmicks are added? It's to try an open up the racing. But why do you think the FIA feel they are needed? Because the teams won't agree to cost-cutting. Jean Todt asked them to critically examine their expenditures and come up with sustainable ways to save money. Their solution? Save $2 million by not having one pre-season test - when their budgets are over $200 million. They know that they can go faster if they spend more. They don't care if it's unsustainable for smaller teams.
 
Racer has posted the Audi/F1 article...interesting.

prisonermonkeys
Bernie isn't the problem. The teams are.

Why do you think the gimmicks are added? It's to try an open up the racing. But why do you think the FIA feel they are needed? Because the teams won't agree to cost-cutting. Jean Todt asked them to critically examine their expenditures and come up with sustainable ways to save money. Their solution? Save $2 million by not having one pre-season test - when their budgets are over $200 million. They know that they can go faster if they spend more. They don't care if it's unsustainable for smaller teams.
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...you have a point. F1 needs a rethink of what it is I'm starting to realize. They really need to almost "reboot" and start from scratch.

Wishfull thinking...but turn the V6T's into firespitting things with uncontrolled fuel use, rid of DRS and the hybrid drive, meanwhile taking away more downforce and there's good F1...not happening though ever I realize. Tis a pitty. :(
 
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catamount39
Nope. For one thing F1 is wounded and not doing so hot. Secondly, Porsche and Audi are the pieces of the growing LMP1 category and are rivals: Audi the "new" champions, with legendary Porsche coming back to defend their legacy. Besides, again, VW AG let Porsche back into the mix. Audi is staying in WEC, and so is Porsche.
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I suppose it all comes down to market strategy.

If the 'Race win on sunday, sell on Monday' philosophy is to be believed and is still relevant in this day and age, (racing can be a rather neat way of selling cars), then it might actually be in Audi's best interest to take on the might of Mercedes in F1. I have noticed more and more Mercedes new entry level A-class cars on the road - over here in the UK in the past few months. It could (of-course) just be coincidence.. or it could be new founded popularity towards the brand partly in thanks to it's F1 success.

Audi also have entry level cars that they'd like to sell. Surely it makes sense for them to go up against their direct competitors and try and beat them on track - gain even more popularity and grab a tighter hold on the market share..

(This may have little relevance but part explains my thinking, although it's looking at Indian markets and it's not quite up to date): http://articles.economictimes.india...-india-indian-luxury-car-market-eberhard-kern

This philosophy also applies to Le-mans/WEC too, but the difference between entry level Porsche and entry level Audi, i imagine is quite different.
 
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Race on Sunday, sell on Monday; applies more to GT, Touring, and silhouette series. Granted the brand doing well in F1 helps, but F1 is not some place you go to sell cars. Besides, Audi's R18 e-Tron Quattro is bang on to what they make except now with a hybrid system. Audi also has great brand success amongst the GT world right now, after winning both the 24 Hours of Nurburgring and 24 Hours of Spa with the R8 LMS Ultra GT3 car, that and the win at Le Mans makes it 3 24 Hour wins this year alone which is a feat within itself. They are a sportscar racing brand, and they continue to embrace it.
 
catamount39
Race on Sunday, sell on Monday; applies more to GT, Touring, and silhouette series. Granted the brand doing well in F1 helps, but F1 is not some place you go to sell cars. Besides, Audi's R18 e-Tron Quattro is bang on to what they make except now with a hybrid system. Audi also has great brand success amongst the GT world right now, after winning both the 24 Hours of Nurburgring and 24 Hours of Spa with the R8 LMS Ultra GT3 car, that and the win at Le Mans makes it 3 24 Hour wins this year alone which is a feat within itself. They are a sportscar racing brand, and they continue to embrace it.
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I agree, maybe the 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday' applies more to those series, but to common folk with little interest in motorsport as a whole.. F1 is something they're more likely to stumble upon in the media (maybe not the US so much but around the rest of the world). And i believe it's the ordinary Joe, Mercedes and Audi are trying to sell their small cars to (as well as their bigger ones). Audi may have a car that does near enough exactly what the race car does and all the tech that goes with it, filtered down into their entry models, but i still believe F1 has far more exposure to the masses than any of those series you mention. And lets face it, these car manufacturers are all about selling there entry level cars on-mass.. it's their bread and butter.
 
catamount39
F1 is not some place you go to sell cars
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But it is.

Ferrari, for example, they only sell cars to race... but who do they sell the cars to? It's a showroom but it's a showroom for people who are buying completely different cars from the ones I'm lusting after in BTCC.

Audi can put cars into that market, if they couldn't then they wouldn't even consider it.
 
F1 Has more exposure then every other Race Series combined not including NASCAR.

If you don't think race on Sunday Sell on Monday doesn't apply to F1 your concept of Marketing is flawed.

There was a study a year ago that showed even minor sponsers of teams have shown notable growth since being in F1, not to mention how much Mercedes are milking there current status as Constructors champions.
 

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