32 cars on track at same time in GT6?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sk8er913
  • 61 comments
  • 5,716 views

Do you believe GT6 will receieve 32 cars on track in a future update, possibly 2.0.

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 6.6%

  • No

    Votes: 226 93.4%
  • Total voters
    242
sk8er913

sk8er913

Messages
4,101
United States
California
Messages
Sk8er913
From Neogaf user Wax free Vanilla:
"But they're in a GT6 folder. Spec II will bring the greatness....



seems the ai drivers all have the same behaviour settings but the starting position has car boosting magic.

for this event 32 drivers listed all have the same ai settings which means the boost table must sort out where they finish in the race?"

He then copy and paste the tag sheet that he found.

Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=725281&page=156

I find this post to be very interesting, does anything think it could be a thing? I mean, 16 cars already shudders in FPS. Normally I would say "Thats too much for the PS3 to handle you are crazy!"... but in this case, who can argue with code? So you think we will get 32 cars on track in GT6? I have made a poll, discuss.
 
Are we talking about online or offline? Because online I don't see the PS3 handling 32 but offline i think its possible because does F1 2014 not have 20 cars on the track.
 
It'd never happen in GT6 because the PS3 and it's hardware couldn't cope. Even games like Battlefield struggle to have 12 vs 12 multiplayer games on the PS3 and that regularly crashes. But, PS4 and GT7 is a possibility. I remember Kaz saying in an interview, that he is trying to get more cars on track because of the Nurburgring 24 Hour race and other endurance race disciplines around the world. Quote "(Ss to whether we'll ever see such vast numbers of cars in multi-class racing in a Gran Turismo game, Yamauchi says, "It's one of our milestones, and it's on our list of things to do.")"

Now, I don't know if it'll be 20, 24, 28, 32 or 100 cars on track at once but I think they have been trying to make it into reality in recent times. Just look at the recent Sierra Time races, I overtook around 50 cars on that one track in the first Time Trail so maybe, just maybe, they are working on something to allow there to be a lot of cars on track for a future title when the console can cope with it... But, it'll probably never happen in GT6. That is why I voted 'No'.


Reference to quote: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-04-how-gran-turismo-plans-to-save-motorsport-from-itself
 
No way and there is no way I'd want this. The PS3 is ancient hardware, I stopped playing the Sierra track because I noticed my HDD light was going nuts the whole time I was on it. I love my old PS3 and I don't want it pushed to the limit anymore. Push these limits on the new hardware (PS4) & take it easy on the old PS3!
 
If they had an option to only display 10-16 of the cars at once like PC's do then maybe it could be done but I would suspect 32 would be a more realistic target for GT7.

Project Cars have a license for Le Mans and they are looking at reproducing a close to full field (50+?) even on console versions (not confirmed yet). I don't see why Polyphony couldn't manage 32 in GT7. I can get fields of 60+ offline running on a 4GB laptop in some PC sims. I guess it will depend on how developers prioritise features within the available resource.
 
No, I don't think that could happen since the PS3 just wouldn't allow it. I mean, you probably could get 32 cars on the course on GT6, but the FPS would suffer from it horribly. It's better to wait for the PS4 GT games before thinking about something like that.
 
JohnScoonsBeard
If they had an option to only display 10-16 of the cars at once like PC's do then maybe it could be done but I would suspect 32 would be a more realistic target for GT7.

Project Cars have a license for Le Mans and they are looking at reproducing a close to full field (50+?) even on console versions (not confirmed yet). I don't see why Polyphony couldn't manage 32 in GT7. I can get fields of 60+ offline running on a 4GB laptop in some PC sims. I guess it will depend on how developers prioritise features within the available resource.
Click to expand...

You do seem to understand that in console games there is and there will always be finite resources, which is not the case in PC games, but there's one key missing point here. When PD and every console dev optimize those resources and make decisions, practically always graphics have the preference over more cars on track.

GT6 on the PS3 could have 200 cars on track -- looking like a PS2 game with 20fps. GT7 on the PS4 could have 200 cars on track, without any trick -- looking like a PS3 game with 20 fps. Project Cars on the PS4 could have 50 cars on track -- and look nothing alike the trailers do.

And even in the case some GT7 events support those 200 cars, for example the 24 hours of Nurburgring, still there would be lots of performance tricks used, to the point in that one event the game will look quite different than in the others. Some are only displaying maybe 5 cars at distance, lower drawing distances and using 2d assets in some parts, very simplified illumination, there won't be an ambient sound of 200 engines working and so on.
Those tricks bring one huge problem though: That 200 cars event would be nowhere near as great in-game as it sounds, because it wouldn't feel like a 200 cars race.

With that said, I think GT6 will stay just the same as it is now and GT7 in general will support 24 cars. Maybe there will be a couple of exceptions for some events like the said one and Nascar, but with 64 cars tops and the game not running in the same way.
(of course the trailers would show 64 cars and great visuals, using PCs to render those trailers and run the game with higher settings)


Secondly, is there any point in having a 200 cars race in a Gran Turismo game, even if resources were infinite?

The idea of those endurance races is that finishing the race let alone in 10th place is an achievement. On the other hand, the Gran Turismo like series and events have always been about overtaking slug pace cars and having a guaranteed first place. That gameplay decision makes a 200 car race just an extended version of the existing gameplay, so not a meaningful addition.

If gameplay remains the same, I think Nascar the only case that is currently (kind of) supported in the GT series and in which a big increase of cars on track would make it substantially better.

Of course that would be bring more problems, like that the game would require a lot more content and racing flags would be quite nice there.

Finally, for us consumers there wouldn't be a point on that either, because iRacing and others are way better at Nascar than the GT series will ever be, namely iRacing, so might play those instead.
 
Last edited:
I'd say no, simply because the PS3 is already struggling with everything PD claimed we'd see in GT6.

Besides, who'd want to race 32 line-tracing sheep cars ?, waste of computational resources imo.
 
If they could bring it to GT7 then it'd be only useful online for Leagues and Racing Groups. I do group races where we use Multi-Class racing online but having a 16 max grid restricts that. Having 24 or more cars would be great to have online, 32 would be a little too much in my opinion though. But it'd be nice to be able to do realistic GT3, WEC and Le Mans though... Saying that, it still needs that amount of people to join in the first place. Which is rare with GT nowadays.

Offline however it'd be useless. Seasonal Events and single player are already pointless enough when you get the lead car starting half a lap ahead of you and you have to chase them down.
 
avens
You do seem to understand that in console games there is and there will always be finite resources, which is not the case in PC games, but there's one key missing point here. When PD and every console dev optimize those resources and make decisions, practically always graphics have the preference over more cars on track.

GT6 on the PS3 could have 200 cars on track -- looking like a PS2 game with 20fps. GT7 on the PS4 could have 200 cars on track, without any trick -- looking like a PS3 game with 20 fps. Project Cars on the PS4 could have 50 cars on track -- and look nothing alike the trailers do.

And even in the case some GT7 events support those 200 cars, for example the 24 hours of Nurburgring, still there would be lots of performance tricks used, to the point in that one event the game will look quite different than in the others. Some are only displaying maybe 5 cars at distance, lower drawing distances and using 2d assets in some parts, very simplified illumination, there won't be an ambient sound of 200 engines working and so on.
Those tricks bring one huge problem though: That 200 cars event would be nowhere near as great in-game as it sounds, because it wouldn't feel like a 200 cars race.

With that said, I think GT6 will stay just the same as it is now and GT7 in general will support 24 cars. Maybe there will be a couple of exceptions for some events like the said one and Nascar, but with 64 cars tops and the game not running in the same way.
(of course the trailers would show 64 cars and great visuals, using PCs to render those trailers and run the game with higher settings)


Secondly, is there any point in having a 200 cars race in a Gran Turismo game, even if resources were infinite?

The idea of those endurance races is that finishing the race let alone in 10th place is an achievement. On the other hand, the Gran Turismo like series and events have always been about overtaking slug pace cars and having a guaranteed first place. That gameplay decision makes a 200 car race just an extended version of the existing gameplay, so not a meaningful addition.

If gameplay remains the same, I think Nascar the only case that is currently (kind of) supported in the GT series and in which a big increase of cars on track would make it substantially better.

Of course that would be bring more problems, like that the game would require a lot more content and racing flags would be quite nice there.

Finally, for us consumers there wouldn't be a point on that either, because iRacing and others are way better at Nascar than the GT series will ever be, namely iRacing, so might play those instead.
Click to expand...

That's very true. Consoles are still a lot more convenient than PC's so there is certainly a market for properly done racing games. It will be very interesting to see how much of a market on console when Project Cars comes out. If it's a big success will PD a) notice, or b) do anything about it?
 
TwinTurbo LM
Exactly, even in the Sierra Time Rally, the cars you overtake seem to disappear when out of view.
Click to expand...
Is this for sure? So if you pass a car and it becomes out of sight, it will then never come back? Even if you just sit there waiting? That is so dumb if true. 👍

Initial Reaction: I never would have thought... logic everywhere! :lol:
 
kolio123
Is this for sure? So if you pass a car and it becomes out of sight, it will then never come back? Even if you just sit there waiting? That is so dumb if true. 👍

Initial Reaction: I never would have thought... logic everywhere! :lol:
Click to expand...
Yeah, I tested it by stopping my car and waiting for cars to overtake. I was waiting there for a while...
 
REW
Are we talking about online or offline? Because online I don't see the PS3 handling 32 but offline i think its possible because does F1 2014 not have 20 cars on the track.
Click to expand...
Different engine, different detail level for cars, different detail level for tracks. Possibly simpler physics calculations too. Can't really directly compare games like that.


kolio123
Is this for sure? So if you pass a car and it becomes out of sight, it will then never come back? Even if you just sit there waiting? That is so dumb if true. 👍

Initial Reaction: I never would have thought... logic everywhere! :lol:
Click to expand...
Silly, but pretty clever from a design point of view. In almost all situations where the player is actually trying to win, they wouldn't notice.

CeeJay
No way and there is no way I'd want this. The PS3 is ancient hardware, I stopped playing the Sierra track because I noticed my HDD light was going nuts the whole time I was on it. I love my old PS3 and I don't want it pushed to the limit anymore. Push these limits on the new hardware (PS4) & take it easy on the old PS3!
Click to expand...
It was just loading in new cars (or streaming the track) as you played. Your PS3 won't break even if its HDD breaks anyway. You can replace a HDD for less than the cost of a new retail game, just remember to back up your saved games regularly :p.
 
Last edited:
Pseudopod
Well, I'm sure it could be done if only standard cars were used :p
Click to expand...

Graphically it could probably be done. 32 standard cars is probably a lot less demanding than 16 premium cars.

But I have doubts about the PS3s ability to run 31 instances of the AI code and 32 instances of car physics in a sensible manner.
 
As much as I would like this to be a possibility, there is no way it will happen by 2.00, or if we even get that far with the game.

I agree though that for the endurance races there should be a full field of classes, all regulated, even, and not a S4 DTM against a SLS GT3.. For events such as Le Mans 24 and Nurb 24, I would definitely like to see if it is possible to have 50+ cars on track.

But do I expect to see that on GT6.. No chance.
 
Imari
Graphically it could probably be done. 32 standard cars is probably a lot less demanding than 16 premium cars.

But I have doubts about the PS3s ability to run 31 instances of the AI code and 32 instances of car physics in a sensible manner.
Click to expand...
Really it's the other way around. Graphically, things fluctuate wildly in terms of load, but the physics is more or less constant. You plan for the worst with graphics: 32 Premiums right in front of you on a geometrically dense circuit like London; physics has no "worst case", it's "always on", except for things like collisions, which, let's be honest, are determined primarily by the player.

Also, a few hundred thousand polygons is a lot more than <50 degrees of freedom per car, even accounting for the difference in clock rates for the two systems (which is not 3 - 4 orders of magnitude; that is, the physics is not running at 60 kHz). I'm assuming that the physics is mostly explicitly solvable, which perhaps doesn't apply to the new suspension kinematics, but that's a small portion of the overall load.

Remember that vertex setup (transform at least) is done on the SPUs.
If PD can get a better handle on managing scene complexity, e.g. by more sophisticated LoD and culling techniques, perhaps there will be some polygon headroom available, in terms of the "worst case" being softened. Perhaps.



But it seems that the "32 entries" evidence referenced by the OP is indeed just a pool for the event. But then there's this:
...
HIT_WALL
HIT_CAR
HIT_PYLON
WRONGWAY
FUEL_LOST
TIME_OVER
RANK_1
RANK_2
RANK_3
RANK_4
RANK_5
RANK_6
RANK_7
RANK_8
RANK_9
RANK_10
RANK_11
RANK_12
RANK_13
RANK_14
RANK_15
RANK_16
RANK_17
RANK_18
RANK_19
RANK_20
RANK_21
RANK_22
RANK_23
RANK_24
RANK_25
RANK_26
RANK_27
RANK_28
RANK_29
RANK_30
RANK_31
RANK_32
WIN
LOSE
DSQ
...
Click to expand...

It could just be "headroom" built into any data structures used, or perhaps cross-pollination from the PS4 projects, of course. It's not proof of anything, other than PD can internally award entities with the property of "RANK_32" if they so chose.
 
Griffith500
But it seems that the "32 entries" evidence referenced by the OP is indeed just a pool for the event. But then there's this:


It could just be "headroom" built into any data structures used, or perhaps cross-pollination from the PS4 projects, of course. It's not proof of anything, other than PD can internally award entities with the property of "RANK_32" if they so chose.
Click to expand...

Good find :)
 

Latest Posts

Back