33 Gr.3 cars Test drive (Sainte-Croix Circuit B)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Sakinen, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Sakinen

    Sakinen

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    I ran a test for almost all Gr.3 cars of the game. The two cars excluded, are Lexus RCF GT3 Prototype Emil Frey Racing 2016 (almost duplicate of 2017 model) and BMW M6 GT3 M Power Liver 2016 (duplicate of BMW M6 GT3 Walkenhorst Motorsport 2016). So 33 cars were tested. The track chosen, was Sainte-Croix Circuit B, one of the races of GT League>Amateur League>Group 3 Cup. By the nature of the test (one off), anyone understands that the times achieved are by no means definite but I think that the results (Race Times and Best Lap Times) considerably demonstrate each car's potential.

    Methodology

    1.
    For each of the 33 cars, Technical specifications (drive, hp, weight, hp/kg ratio) and Performance rating (speed, acceleration, braking, cornering, stability) were gathered in a spreadsheet and were arranged into tables* according to Kg/hp ratio and Average Performance rating (image 1,2).

    2. The driving test, consisted of one warm up lap (in the race) and then restart of the 4 lap race. In case of an exit or a crash, a restart of the race took place but it was in no more than 1-2 occasions, therefore it was a one off race for almost all cars. There was no tuning at all and the tyres used were Racing Soft.

    3. Race Time and Race Best Lap Time were gathered in a spreadsheet and were arranged into tables (image 3).

    4. A new table was created, in order to summarize the previous data (image 4).
    In the first column, the cars are arranged according to their kg/hp ratio (best first).
    In the second column we see the Average Performance rating class** for each car.
    In the third and fourth column we see the Race Time ranking and the Race Best Lap time ranking.

    In this way we can eaisily see, in what degree the kg/hp ratio and the Performance rating ''tell the truth'' about each car's potential***

    *
    Black font is used for existing Gr.3 cars
    Blue font is used for non existinng Gr.3 Cars (modified for the needs of the game)
    Red font is used for fictional Gr.3 cars (Vision etc)

    **
    A > 5,5
    B = 5,5
    C = 5,4
    D < 5,4

    ***
    Fill color index
    Red : difference between kg/ratio place and Race Best LT place is >4, negative
    Green : difference between kg/ratio place and Race Best LT place is >4, positive
    no fill : difference between kg/ratio place and Race Best LT place is up to 4


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. gapper59

    gapper59

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    Wow, good job. That had to take some time to do
     
  3. Granadier

    Granadier

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    That's a lot of information! Nice collection. It's wild to see the Nissan so low in the rankings since when this track was up as a daily race that was the meta car.

    Couple of comments:
    1. Assuming this testing done with 100/100 instead of BoP?
    2. Car existence wise, the Chevrolet C7 and Honda NSX both have real world GT3 variants.

    Thanks for providing this info though!
     
  4. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    This looks like an obvious waste of time to me. Nobody cares gr.3 cars without bop.
     
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  5. breeminator

    breeminator

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    A bit harsh. I'll have a go at translating what you just said into British:
    "Hey, that's great work, have you thought about doing it with BoP on as well?"
     
  6. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    Im not a british.
     
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  7. Ddkklop

    Ddkklop

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    Amazing work, but it's true that with BoP ( Balance of Performance ), this test would have turned up differently. But it's still interesting seeing how fast are these cars without BoP. I expected that Mclaren F1 would be the fastest, but didn't expect porsche and other cars to be so low.
     
  8. Granadier

    Granadier

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    Thank you for your contribution to this thread.
     
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  9. TS050

    TS050 Premium

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    It's a figure of speech.

    There was literally no reason to be so rude
     
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  10. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    I wasnt trying to being rude. I really feel like this is a waste of time. All of those values means nothing because gr.3 cars are uncompetitive without bop. People wont need statistical data to see how overpowered it is 100/100 Mclaren f1 gtr or Ford gt lm spec 2.
     
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  11. Sakinen

    Sakinen

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    I just checked in Brand central and I see that both models ''were specially tuned to meet Gr.3 regulations of GT Sport''.
    Maybe these variants are recent.

    You don't care about Gr.3 cars without BOP. I, on the contrary, don't care about any car with BOP. That's why I ran the test this way.
    What is a waste of time for you, isn't for anyone. We all have our own criteriia.
    Maybe, after all, your age justifies your dogmatism.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2019
  12. Dezcom

    Dezcom

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    The Corvette Gr3 in-game is not based on the real GT3 car because Pratt & Miller are supremely stubborn with their car data, maybe they'll ease up on the C7R now that the C8R is about to hit the track but who knows really. :banghead:
     
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  13. TurboTacho

    TurboTacho

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    Thank goodness I had the Ford as my top favorite Gr.3 car!
     
  14. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    If you dont care about bop that means you missed the entire point of this game. And we dont have all our own criteria. There is one criteria that Pd makes and thats only one matters.

    Also dogmatism is believing something without needing proof. Im saying F1 and ford gt already gets a lot downgrade with bop which proofs those cars would be extremely strong without bop. Thats not dogmatism because i already have my proof.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  15. Riptide

    Riptide Premium

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    Still rude, whichever way you look at it.
     
  16. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    I guess you guys never heard a thing called criticism.
     
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  17. NJ72

    NJ72

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    Criticism and an attack on someone's work are two different things. You failed to ride the knife-edge on this occasion, sadly.

    That said, my personal thoughts are that the BOP measurements would be of more benefit - to me personally - because I tend to drive Gr.3 in Sport mode. However, it's a great piece of work and I can see it being very useful for those who race in leagues or online lobbies - but of course, talhaONE evidently doesn't do either of these things, so nobody must do them.
     
  18. TrafficEmpire

    TrafficEmpire

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    There’s a tactful way to giving constructive criticism and then there’s being an ******* by calling someone’s hours of work a waste of time.
     
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  19. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    Lol Im not attacking to anyones work. This work is just a waste of time imho. This table teaches or explains nothing and has no value in terms of competitivy.

    Also when it comes to open lobbies there is no way to adjust settings for 100/100 for each car. All you can do is set min max hp and weight so some cars will downgrade some will upgrade. Even for open lobbies this table is still useless.

    Yes this a criticism. @Sakinen take it as a personal attack or whatever you like.
     
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  20. mthomas_95

    mthomas_95

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    I can see the value of comparing Gr3 cars at spec 100/100 settings. The problem is the table isn't useful without an indicator of the pace of the one carrying out the test.

    The Aston Martin using same settings as OP can actually do 2:07s (maybe 2:06 if you practiced enough), not 2:16s. The table is more representative of OP's pace in the cars, but not what they are actually capable of.
     
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  21. KepleroGT

    KepleroGT

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    That was some real effort you put in. I wish you did this but with BOP, as it's not very useful for Sport Mode. But if you don't feel like it, that's fine.
     
  22. NJ72

    NJ72

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    Are you on glue or something? You can disable tuning on a lobby quite easily. Likewise a lot of racing leagues have predefined settings for power and weight which is adhered to through trust and not just the settings restrictions in the game.

    The reasons people are not seeing what you're saying as criticism and seeing it more as putting it down entirely is the use of phrases such as "this table teaches or explains nothing and has no value in terms of competitivy" - firstly, that last 'word' isn't one, but that aside nothing in that sentence is any form of critique, it is just standing on a soapbox shouting "THIS IS WRONG" with no form of feedback - which is core to criticism.

    Another example of your amazing critique is the blind disregard for anybody who plays this game in anything other than Sport mode. To proclaim that it is useless, purely because it doesn't apply to you is absolutely absurd. As I've said, as well as others in this thread, the information supplied here applies to people using lobbies, single player, or just people who enjoy driving Gr.3 cars and want to establish which ones may suit their play style etc.

    You have said not constructive to the OP about how to improve the table beyond the rather eloquent "nobody cares without bop" - which is neither constructive nor correct.

    Ultimately you have not been a critic, whether you ever realise this or not remains to be seen, but your choice of language has been poor, your points have lacked any kind of real feedback beyond "I don't like it" and the fact you still seem incapable of realising any of the above points when they've been illustrated by many other members proves that you probably won't change.

    I'd put a decent amount of money on you replying to this in an irritated way to shoot me down because "I'm not playing the game correctly" by using something other than Sport mode.
     
  23. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    @NJ72 Its not about sport mode. I rarely play sport mode myself. Its about balance. Gr.3 class is unbalanced crapfest without bop. Table has no value because its "unbalanced". Not because its unsuitable for sport mode.

    Also if you think it would be fun to race with 100/100 cars good luck against a Ford gt Lm spec in your Aston Martin Vantage gt3.
     
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  24. NJ72

    NJ72

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    That one post has been more constructive than every other post of yours in this thread, FYI.
     
  25. GTR365

    GTR365 Premium

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    The force is strong in this one.
    We shall name his force Irony.
     
  26. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    English may not be his first language. People dont have to stick in this thread defending their 'criticism' as if its their sworn duty.

    People can very well say that they respect the effort people put into this post but it isnt as useful as it seems and then bow out gracefully instead of belligerently defending their 'criticism'... and for what? To solidify what everyone already knows about their character or lack thereof?

    Disgraceful.
     
  27. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    Uhh When did i sad i dont respect his work? Just because the way i told it doesnt mean i dont respect his work.

    Also thanks for the insult. It clearly shows you are much more grown up then me.
     
  28. GTR365

    GTR365 Premium

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    This seems very much to be a contention in which misunderstood linguistics plays no role.

    When one cheekily attempts to introduce the concept of criticism to those criticizing him for how he criticized another, I label that irony.

    We all, I assume, are adults. I would prefer either we let the OP have the decision to stand by his post concerning its critique or we let GTP moderators moderate.

    On point, I loved his data. I'm a geek.
    I appreciate the time & effort he spent not only in formulating a hypothesis but also in testing cars then collecting, assembling & presenting the data. But, I had a similar concern to @talhaONE about the methodology testing the cars at default levels. Accounting for BOP, even though it remains in flux, would be a more useful examination strategy for those who compete with these cars in sanctioned events. In digital form, BOP adjustments could be easily implemented.
    It's a fine starting point; let's encourage him to run with it so we get an enhanced data set. Otherwise, he's out. If someone stomped on my garden I spent a season growing simply because the color of the blossoms of my plants was not the right shade of red, I'd hang up my shovel.