4WD M5/4WD VS 2WD/Turbo VS N/A Thread

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Would be best to just offer both a RWD and AWD model. Honestly, how many M5 owners go around doing burnouts and drifting?


I would actually be in the group choosing the RWD model. If I could afford to daily drive an M5 I probably would not be driving it through snow and would have something else for that.
 
As for the original topic at hand, ie, the M5, I can only say that some people are afraid of change. Maybe its because they can't see the forest for the trees and are stuck in a philosophical comfort-zone where arbitrary details are what defines something for them, rather than seeing the big picture.

... How fast and how comfortable has always been subject to the prevailing expectations of the day, not some chiseled in stone edict about engine configuration or drive wheels.

Some people enjoy going faster than X, whatever X may be. It is human nature to want more than what we already have and cars are a natural expression of this. While I don't necessarily subscribe to that creedo personally (for a daily driven street car, objective performance has diminishing returns), I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.

Whilst I am a self profesed BMW Fanboy, I am also in the camp that has no problem with an AWD M5 model alongside the RWD, because I understand there would be a sound business case for it, but...

It would frustrate me that people may consider the AWD version to be the better car to drive, because it recorded better numbers on the track, it would overlook the driving experience.. which is where I would disagree that details such as the driven wheels are not arbitrary.. and where a rock solid edict may be a good thing.. it's all about character, and a certain degree of heritage/pedigree. I would be gutted if those two things were lost because there was a 0.2 second difference around Hockenheim (for example).

Like I say.. I have no problem with an AWD M5 as a car.. I think you and I argued in the X6M thread a while ago about what made an M car... somebody said you have to draw the line somewhere, and I disagreed (in the context of the X M's).. but now I think BMW are approaching that line a little too readily. Philosophical comfort zone or not... brand values are brand values... making an X6 and then making an M version is one thing... but messing with a tried and tested formula is another.
 
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I actually think the previous M5 kind of missed the mark in terms of what focus the M5 should have. Yes, it was luxurious, and hugely capable, but far too focused on track performance, to the exclusion of everything else.

I mean, yes, it was a very special car. Incredibly special. The closest to a four seat (real seats... not padded pews with as much legroom as a suitcase) Formula 1 car as there will ever be. But it was annoyingly stiff and the gearchange (with the SMG) was clunky.

With a dual-clutch box, the new car should be more capable and more comfortable. And AWD should make it a better on-road weapon than the old car.

As to whether it'll be just as good to drive... I think it's a wait-and-see. BMW have managed to make their current turbocharged mills drive so much like naturally aspirated ones that I have no qualms on that point, but whether they can make their AWD system act more transparently than it does in other xDrive products will make a big difference in how well an AWD M5 will be received.

 
Whilst I am a self profesed BMW Fanboy, I am also in the camp that has no problem with an AWD M5 model alongside the RWD, because I understand there would be a sound business case for it, but...

It would frustrate me that people may consider the AWD version to be the better car to drive, because it recorded better numbers on the track, it would overlook the driving experience.. which is where I would disagree that details such as the driven wheels are not arbitrary.. and where a rock solid edict may be a good thing.. it's all about character, and a certain degree of heritage/pedigree. I would be gutted if those two things were lost because there was a 0.2 second difference around Hockenheim (for example).

Like I say.. I have no problem with an AWD M5 as a car.. I think you and I argued in the X6M thread a while ago about what made an M car... somebody said you have to draw the line somewhere, and I disagreed (in the context of the X M's).. but now I think BMW are approaching that line a little too readily. Philosophical comfort zone or not... brand values are brand values... making an X6 and then making an M version is one thing... but messing with a tried and tested formula is another.

I saw this post other day and meant to get back to it, but couldn't quite figure out how to explain myself clearly without a wall of text, so trying the best I can...

Well as niky said in his post, its simply too early to tell if the M5 xdrive (or whatever the hell they call it) will live up to the standards people expect.

I think assuming that it will be worse to drive because it is AWD and faster is the same mistake as assuming it will be better to drive because of the same reasons.

First, there is no precedent for such an M car (to be offered with two drivetrains) so you can't look at past examples.

Second, I believe that the criteria for making a good M car (any performance car, really) is not tied to specific hardware, but rather behavior.

For example, an M car should have excellent throttle response. In the past, the best way to achieve this was with a particular combination of hardware. A high-reving naturally aspirated motor with individual throttle bodies for rapid and precise airflow control. But if you can accomplish the same thing with a turbo motor and pick up extra qualities like better fuel economy and more torque while keeping the downsides to a minimum, then why not?

That's what I mean when I think some people are too hung up on the details and can't see the forest for the trees.

Brand values are based around results; the end product and how it well it accomplishes its mission. Not necessarily how it accomplishes it. How the M5 puts power down is not nearly as important as how it makes you feel.

I also have some examples of M staying traditional when the technology doesn't let them achieve what they set out to do. M cars still don't use run-flats because M doesn't feel they give proper feedback. In the Z4 M, my last BMW, they retained hydraulic power steering instead of an electric rack for the same reason. So I think the people there are still capable of making good choices in the face of technology moving forward.

And let us, for the sake of argument, say the xdrive version of the car isn't as good as the RWD one. Does this make it a bad car? Is the athlete who takes home the silver medal a bad athlete because someone else won the gold? I think in the end, it only needs to be better than the competition... and by many accounts, the RS6 is not a hard target to hit.

I also have some ambivalence about 'fun to drive' as an objective and subjective property, but that's really for another discussion...


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Nothing wrong at all with an AWD BMW. In fact it would make it much easier to drive in the winter thats for sure. Which would result in more sales in states that have winter climates. Its actually smart marketing. AWD haters will hate but in reality its a great idea. Especially if they allowed for the option of AWD or RWD. Even better a push button option that enables Awd at any time.
 
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