599 vs. F430 vs. California...I must be doing something wrong

  • Thread starter ultrataco
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ultrataco

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ultrataco
Looking at the specs, the 599 should be the fastest, then the 430, then the California. However, I drove them all on Suzuka and the order was backwards.

I used S1 tires, pro physics/steering/etc, no stability control or anything. I think set TC to 1 on the 599 after a few laps. I don't remember if ABS was on or not. If it was on, it was set low.

I did a few "easy" laps in the California for a base time. Then I drove the 430 and was surprised how difficult it was to beat the California. After many hard laps I finally did. Then I tried a little harder in the California and easily beat the 430's time within a few laps. Then I tried the 599 and was even slower! :odd: After many many laps, I gave up.

The times:
California: 1:16.227
F430: 1:16.616
599: 1:17.662

Has anyone else noticed this? I'm not really blaming the game for this, but I thought it was strange. Is this a case of "driveability" and technology trumping skill? Is it the track maybe?

The 430 has narrower front tires (225) than the California (245), but it's lighter and more powerful. The 599 is in between in weight, but way more powerful, with fatter tires.
 
ultrataco
Looking at the specs, the 599 should be the fastest, then the 430, then the California. However, I drove them all on Suzuka and the order was backwards.

I used S1 tires, pro physics/steering/etc, no stability control or anything. I think set TC to 1 on the 599 after a few laps. I don't remember if ABS was on or not. If it was on, it was set low.

I did a few "easy" laps in the California for a base time. Then I drove the 430 and was surprised how difficult it was to beat the California. After many hard laps I finally did. Then I tried a little harder in the California and easily beat the 430's time within a few laps. Then I tried the 599 and was even slower! :odd: After many many laps, I gave up.

The times:
California: 1:16.227
F430: 1:16.616
599: 1:17.662

Has anyone else noticed this? I'm not really blaming the game for this, but I thought it was strange. Is this a case of "driveability" and technology trumping skill? Is it the track maybe?

The 430 has narrower front tires (225) than the California (245), but it's lighter and more powerful. The 599 is in between in weight, but way more powerful, with fatter tires.
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One thing you should also consider is the layout of the cars. How well is the california balanced when compared to the other two? How wide is the stance of each vehicle? Which vehcles brakes the best? Suzuka is a good mix of curves and straights, and that can mean a good well balanced car (that is at least competitive) could very well beat, a weightier yet more powerful car.
 
The California will always won in Suzuka, it can eventually beat a GTR around that track. The 599 sucks so bad at the esses, there's too much weight in the front and too much power, hence is easier to get wheelspin and thus lose time, also, understeer is a possibility if you don't use the throttle properly. Race the Ferrari dealer event, it's held on Suzuka, the AI 599 are always faster, because the F430 is the hardest car to drive fast and being so, the AI can't extract full potential from it.

The F430 deserves a special mention, since it's an MR car, it can actually beat the California in the corners, however that dual clutch automated tranny will make your F430 look slow in the straights and under acceleration, when compared to a California.
 
Dan_
The California will always won in Suzuka, it can eventually beat a GTR around that track. The 599 sucks so bad at the esses, there's too much weight in the front and too much power, hence is easier to get wheelspin and thus lose time, also, understeer is a possibility if you don't use the throttle properly. Race the Ferrari dealer event, it's held on Suzuka, the AI 599 are always faster, because the F430 is the hardest car to drive fast and being so, the AI can't extract full potential from it.

The F430 deserves a special mention, since it's an MR car, it can actually beat the California in the corners, however that dual clutch automated tranny will make your F430 look slow in the straights and under acceleration, when compared to a California.
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If actually driven like a MR car, because it's difficult to drive an MR car correctly. It's counterintuitive, because if you want more grip in the turns, give it the gas baby! (Which does not make sense to the average driver)
 
Ok, well glad it's not just me then. I was under the impression that the 599 was their all-conquering flagship vehicle, with the more nimble 430 a bit behind and the baby California far behind as a GT cruiser.

According to the official specs, the 599 is lighter than the California and has a better power/weight ratio than both the Cali and 430.

There's something more to this than power and weight. The Cali was easier to push hard than the other two. Ferrari and their techno wizardry, making every new car somehow faster than all the rest. (unlike Porsche who like to keep things in order - Boxster, Cayman, 911)

I can't wait to see how slow I am in the Enzo in GT5. :)
 
I've always been a bit suspect at the California's performance. Its numbers don't really add up. I know it has the 7spd dual clutch which the other models don't have, but that's its only performance advantage.

I couldn't find a Fiorano lap time for the California, it's strangely absent. I did find the others here though http://www.fastestlaps.com/track26.html
 
I looked at that site also, there are a few tracks with all three cars. The ones I looked at were how I expected: 599 first, 430 a little behind, then the California further back.

It would be nice to get official lap times from Ferrari, though.
 
I'm not surprised with your results, in GT5p: They are all quite fast, but

California: Easiest to control for me, feels like best balance.
F430: quite sensitive on the grip at the back, so you get careful after a while to push that tail.
599: difficult to control as well in steering as in grip on the back for me at least

In real life people might drive less to the limit of the car, due the fear of going of track and the acceleration in the straight becomes more important, giving the advantage back to the 599.

There might also be slight modeling mistakes GT5p, but not enough to spoil the fun for me.

The GT5p times at the best positions confirm your results (except that you seem to drive Suzuki East course):

GTRP_Struppi Ferrari California 2'09.917
TEW_Takeuchi Ferrari California 2'09.980

GTRP_Struppi Ferrari F430 '06 2'09.960
TEW_Takeuchi Ferrari F430 '06 2'10.455

GTRP_Struppi Ferrari 599 '06 2'11.392
Takeuchi01 Ferrari 599 '06 2'11.566

===============================================
Edit:
Also for GT5p you are driving the street set-up, the track times you will find in real life will be tuned cars and the right tuning on the 599 does wonders, certainly in GT5p.
 
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Doesn't struppi use the clutch cheat, so I guess u can't really use his times dude.
The california does have an advantage regarding the smooth and quick gear change as well, but yeah, each could perform differently on different tracks.
 
The physics in GT5:P are "bugged" that's why. There is a distinct lack of rear weight transfer when accelerating to give the tyres more grip. So more powerful/torquey rear wheel drive cars are penalised severely

we'll see in the new pro physics in GT5 if this is fixed, otherwise.....
 
ultrataco
I looked at that site also, there are a few tracks with all three cars. The ones I looked at were how I expected: 599 first, 430 a little behind, then the California further back.

It would be nice to get official lap times from Ferrari, though.
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I don't think you really want an "official" lap time from Ferrari. I would rather have independent ones.

Laptimes below from Vairano

Code: 
1.	Ferrari 458 Italia	1:15.146	
2.	Ferrari 430 Scuderia	1:15.159	
-
6.	Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano	1:16.810	
-
9.	Ferrari F430	       1:17.373	
10.	Ferrari Enzo	       1:17.448	
-
18.	Ferrari F430 Spyder	1:18.460	
-
24.	Ferrari California GT	1:19.580
As you can see, the California is a good bit slower than the other 2 in your comparison.

It also shows that age has is a huge factor in lap times too. Who'd have thought that the Enzo is slower than what is essentially the "base" Ferrari...
 
RedSuinit
If actually driven like a MR car, because it's difficult to drive an MR car correctly. It's counterintuitive, because if you want more grip in the turns, give it the gas baby! (Which does not make sense to the average driver)
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Agree with Red, as always. 👍

Slow in, fast out is a must when driving a MR car, careful gas pedal application is demanded too, you just need to calculate and feel the amount of speed, steering and gas demanded to point the front of the car to the apex, rushing the corner at high speeds will only mean oversteer, loss of grip and traction, it takes time, but makes a huge difference. When you're driving a FR car, you just need to get a good corner approach and gas pedal modulation is far easier, since you can almost completeely get off the throttle and the car will give smooth feedback.
 
I believe we agree:

In real life someone world have race times in this order:

599
F430 (special versions might go faster as the 599)
California

In GT5p you will have race times in this order:

California
F430
599

Probably an issue with the modeling and the fact that in real life you would drive less close to the limit then in a virtual world with no risk on injuries.
 
I'm doing a lap chart, driving all cars on the Eiger on S2/S2 tyres. I put down the following laps in the three Ferraris in question:

California > 1'12.479
599 > 1'12.919
F430 > 1'13.589

I found the California very comfy to drive, and the super fast shifting really came in handy. I wasn't completely satisfied with the F430 lap above, I'll be doing a re-run sometime when I have the time.

The California seems to be very videogame friendly :dopey:
 
The 599 has always handled pretty badly in GT5P compared to what it's supposed to handle like in real life. And the California has been unrealistically faster than the 2 cars, that have more horses than it, and one of them is lighter and is mid-engined.
 
I think that your times make sense. I, and it seems other people too, find the California much easier to drive than the 599.

It's not really fair to say the physics are bad based on our lap times vs other people in the real car. Unless we can try the real 599 to compare to the game we shouldn't assume it's inaccurate.

According to 5th Gear the normal 599 (non-HGTE) understeers quite a bit and I feel that is the major problem with it in the game. It makes sense too, since it has a large V12 at the front.

Anyways around Eiger (which is the only track I've been playing lately) I can post good times easily in the California, nearly tie them in the F430 with a little work and beat them by a little after working my rear end off with the 599. I find it understeers too much, doesn't brake well enough for the speed it carries and oversteers too easily for an aggressive driver like me. If I'm gentle with it I can post good times but it is not easy.

Oh yeah by the way I'm not saying all the physics models are right (pretty sure they're not) but it's tough to judge them.
 
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