650pp Rant

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sk8te-penguin
Okay I've been doing the seasonal for a while now and I have been wondering how the heck PD can dare call performance points "making races equal"

I have a detuned BMW MCLaren F1 and Madza 787B which will win easily at 650pp, but then I also have a Ford GT, Camaro LM race car and a few others tuned to 650pp which won't even come close to 3rd... :ouch:
 
I have encountered the same problem with BMW Mclaren F1 and Ford GT at 650pp and in B-Spec the Ford GT has no chance against the MClaren, Personaly i dont think theres a great deal between them both acceleration and top speed but the MClaren makes it a better 650pp because of the handling, There are many examples of cars in the game with similar BHP and PP that perform very differently and most of the time you can see where the time is lost (corners) but i have also experienced more powerful and lighter cars being slower straight line than not as powerful cars. I guess you would have to ask the makers to get a definitive answer.
 
Okay I've been doing the seasonal for a while now and I have been wondering how the heck PD can dare call performance points "making races equal"

I have a detuned BMW MCLaren F1 and Madza 787B which will win easily at 650pp, but then I also have a Ford GT, Camaro LM race car and a few others tuned to 650pp which won't even come close to 3rd... :ouch:

The equality of PP points has been argued for a long long time - best to use it as a rough guide only. Most organisors (of online race series) I know very rarely use "just" PP points, normally there's some other kind of handicap (for the fastest) or boost (for the slowest cars) involved.

On GT5p the accuracy of PP points were blatently shown to be not right (Tuned renault clio @ 650pp = obvious example) - as with many things in GT5, Polyphony do things their way and don't really seem to listen to anyone outside of their own company or country or draw on previous experience.

Always take PP points as a rough guide and remember, certain cars are better suited to certain racks too.....

I agree withh your rant - but as per usual there's nowt anything any of us can do about it - best of luck amigo... 👍
 
The PP system has some flaws but I believe it works quite well when you compare cars of the same class" with the PP range that is naturally suited to them. Take a Ford GT at 600PP and it lines up very well with other supercars at 600PP , the Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, GT-R's etc. 650 PP is the range of all out race cars with large downforce, the LMP's and Group C cars. The fact that a Ford GT can get to 650PP doesn't mean it can compete there.

If you keep cars within their natural PP range they all line up pretty well, it's only when you throw 950 hp on a car designed to run on 550 hp that you run into trouble. How many race cars do you see with 950 hp with no or very little front downforce?
 
Just imagine putting a 2J @650pp will delap them all.
 
Funnily enough I tried a 2J and it couldn't catch up to the BMW McLaren F1 :( Damn B-Spec
 
my BOB lv 33 in 2J with my help, will end up beeing 1st, and without help 8out of 10 times second..
 
sk8tepenguin
Okay I've been doing the seasonal for a while now and I have been wondering how the heck PD can dare call performance points "making races equal"

I have a detuned BMW MCLaren F1 and Madza 787B which will win easily at 650pp, but then I also have a Ford GT, Camaro LM race car and a few others tuned to 650pp which won't even come close to 3rd... :ouch:

During the "ONLINE B-spec Challenge No. 3" I used a Furai on the 650pp Suzuka event and won against the cars you mention. I used a lvl 24 AI, so his strength was pretty much gone by lap 10, but it was possible. Had to sit there the whole race and coach but it worked.
 
Without any help, my level 34 driver will only get to 3rd place with a detuned 2J behind the Mclaren and the Pagani. Once he's in first though, he can easily hold the lead.

I have a system going right now where I start the race, and have a stop watch go off at around lap 5 where I go and tell him to speed up into 1st place.
 
Ive used all the above inc the Lister Storm, R35 TC stock, R34 TC bothe spec II fords and the blue Lemans version and won easily. Ive earnt a ****e load of credits and the 2 cars that were really close where the Mclaren F1 road car and the Nissan R390 road car, still won but was harder in those 2.
 
Pick any PP and you will discover that some cars are faster than others. Sometimes they just have a better power/torque/weight combination and other times they simply have wider tires that provide more grip no matter what tire compound you choose.

The only way to highlight driving ability is to race the exact same car. If you want to highlight tuning ability, you'll have to choose the exact same car and restrict via PP or power/weight but be prepared to spend time playing with ballast and power reduction.

In short, there is nothing fair about PP based racing. No amount of tuning can make every car race equally. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game. Drive all the cars and find the ones that are fast. Race those if you want to win, or race something else and trash talk anyone that can't beat you in the cars you know are faster.
 
A detuned Escudo and a detuned GT-R Concept LM Race Car have done the job, in all seasonal's in the 650pp range. A-Spec ones that is. I also drive with no assists, as it should be, and it isn't really hard, but i suppose with assists it could be easier.

Also, try a detuned normal McLaren F1, if yours exceed the 650pp limit, this one can also take the cake home.
 
My Racing Modified Corvette Z06 makes seasonals a piece of cake. Weight is your enemy OP. A lighter car will handle, accelerate and brake better.
 
It's obvious pp have next to no meaning considering a kart is 500+
 
It's obvious pp have next to no meaning considering a kart is 500+


Have a think about why a cart is 500pp, you will understand it a lot better then.
 
My thoughts:

The equality of PP points has been argued for a long long time - best to use it as a rough guide only. Most organisors (of online race series) I know very rarely use "just" PP points, normally there's some other kind of handicap (for the fastest) or boost (for the slowest cars) involved.

The PP system has some flaws but I believe it works quite well when you compare cars of the same class" with the PP range that is naturally suited to them.

Pick any PP and you will discover that some cars are faster than others. Sometimes they just have a better power/torque/weight combination and other times they simply have wider tires that provide more grip no matter what tire compound you choose.

+1 for each...

One should just remember, PP is NOT something that can make someone completely ignorant about cars, just judge them in the game. *shakes head*

You still need to look at the numbers, look at what kind of car (race car? saloon car? antique?)... look at the engine displacement, the car type, the downforce, the drivetrain, the tire width, the power to weight ratio, the hp, the weight, the ft.lbs. of torque...

And you need to know at least a bit about all those factors.

THEN, you can choose models that MAY be competitive together at a particular PP.

But no 2 car models are identical. Or they'd be the same model car!! :lol:

Some will be better than another always, some will be better than another in certain tracks... etc. etc.

In short, there is nothing fair about PP based racing. No amount of tuning can make every car race equally. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game.

+ 1 👍

PP based racing, is, IMHO, as much about TUNING & choosing cars, as it is about actually driving them on the track competitively... if not MORE about the choosing & tuning of the car.

There's no cheat sheet for GT5. Sorry. :indiff:
 
Go to www.mygranturismo.net and check the car lsit there. Sort the cars by power to weight (w/kg) and then you can see, why some are faster at those PP. Compare their w/kg values and it is clear.

You can tune until you die a car with (for example) 400w/kg but it will surely be impossible to beat a car with 500w/kg on same PP level.

Your example:

BMW McLaren F1 - 497w/kg
Mazda 787B - 631w/kg

Ford GT LM - 415w/kg
Camaro LM race car - 400w/kg

They are just not in same group.

PP system is not great - I agree. But you must find a way arround it.
 
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