750PP, TCS, and you!

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ok so with the new 750PP online races, who out there is in the same boat as me? Sorely tempted to turn on the traction control. I don't want too but i feel like I'm loosing a lot of time trying to babysit the rear wheels. It makes me sad, but even the 4wd skyline is feeling REALLY slippery with this much power. Im having trouble beating my pace with the 733PP EvoX
 
So make it turn better and take HP away. Races are not won by having the best top speed. They are won and lost in the corners of the race track. lol How many times have you ever spun out the a straightaway(without help I.E. Slammers and idiots)? :) So take some HP away and work on geting the rear and front to stick better. One other thing, you could also make the gears taller, if you know how to. If not the tuning forum can help!
 
Not even considered it and I'm driving a sub-1000kg Corvette sending over 370kw and almost 700Nm torque to the rear wheels. Pretty easy to drive actually, check it out at The Lion's Den.
 
With proper (i.e. delicate) throttle control and good brake balance there isnt a single car or setup in GT5P that needs TC. Just work at balance...
 
i know the tuned zo6 is good at this level but EVERYONE is driving one ... and a big part of me wants to NOT drive what everyone else is.

Well those pansys had better remember I was driving the Z06 already when they were still driving lead-footed in GTRs :grumpy:
 
Although not to be mis-interpreted. I'm not saying that GT-R drivers were pansies, just the ones who were only driving it because it was fast. You should drive cars you like. Obviously I'm a General Motors lover so the Corvette was a natural choice for me.;) 600 PP now is great fun in a 512BB. Not the most stable out there, and I think NSXs and Clios will beat it, but the other drivers have to learn how to drive first :sly: Oh, and the flat-12 :drool:
 
Sorry Topgear, can't say I'm with you on this one :( It's not that I didn't have the thought, I just didn't have it long...

When I raced the 700PP Suzuka Circuit, I used the Tuned Corvette and R1 tires, and still had to un-do some things like power, aerodynamics, and put some weight on it to get it in the 700 point range. However with the 750PP, I was able to put R2's on and up my aerodynamics and power, so the 750PP races gave me a slight benefit, and with the R2 tires, I can't see myself giving another benefit with TCS...

I could even drop the Aero and stick R3's on, which would be smarter, but far too easy to drive... I was even thinking about dropping the R2's, since I feel cheap using them...
 
The R3's would certainly be the obvious choice over aero dynamics. Let's be honest, when I tuned the car for 750PP with weight reduciton and aero, I thought "This is... OK... But doesn't feel much better..." but when I stuck the R2's on and de-tuned everything else, all of asudeen it was like "Yeah, there's my ghost, about 100 feet behind me... In the first turn..." LOL!!

It just feels slightly too easy to drive with the R3's though... If you want to win, certainly should be using R3's :) But I prefer all the speed and power of the Vette with knowing that it's still an easy car to screw up in... I'm still thinking about downgrading back to R1's, and just be prepared to never win again (like it was in the 700PP races!).
 
topgearhead: just keep practicing, even a 4WD addict like me bowed to the power of RWD. ;) And it gives so much more satisfaction if you can keep a beast like that under control.
 
I use a Tuned Viper in 750P with insane amounts of downforce. Really easy to drive.
Only have Abs on 1 (cant get the feel on my crappy DFP padals, I wish they could make a cable for my BRD:s)
 
After a good night of tuning I have the GT LM feeling fast and reasonable. Tried the corvette, just didn't feel it. Tried the Viper, love love love the look, love the feel, pushed out, what i thought were some really fast laps .... that ended up being slower than my EvoX, tried the Evo X, just to get walked away from by anyone who knows what they are doing in a 750PP car. Tried the mines skyline, thats a weird one, gobs of understeer most of the time, followed by Viper-like oversteer. Tried the elise, just didn't feel like i was good enough for that chassis. So the GT LM it is. pushing out 2:05's on good laps .... ill work my way up from there.
 
Why feel the need to be a hero, if you find it easier to drive with aids on, turn them on, do people really think that when Kimi got in his car last year he turned traction control off. :rolleyes:
At the top level, the car will go faster with the aids off, but if you're struggling to control the car, turn them on, that's what they're there for and then lessen them over time.
Don't listen to the wannabe elitists who insist that a time made with aids on somehow isn't valid.👍
 
So make it turn better and take HP away. Races are not won by having the best top speed. They are won and lost in the corners of the race track. lol How many times have you ever spun out the a straightaway(without help I.E. Slammers and idiots)? :) So take some HP away and work on geting the rear and front to stick better. One other thing, you could also make the gears taller, if you know how to. If not the tuning forum can help!

umm no!....races are won on the straights. Its how you exit the turn. Why do you think nailing the Apex a big key in winning. People spend alot of time studying turns just so they get out of it faster. I dont know if you realized but the start/finnish is just one big straight...HP is a big deal. and than after HP its aerodynamics. Get your stuff right.
 
I spin a lot more coming out of turns in 750PP than I did in 700PP, but I'm getting better. You just have to learn to be super smooth with the throttle.
 
I spin a lot more coming out of turns in 750PP than I did in 700PP, but I'm getting better. You just have to learn to be super smooth with the throttle.


Are you using a wheel or the controller, though? I really want a wheel at this point. It is extreamly difficult to feather the throttle just right with the stick. One of the reasons I use the EVO. The other is that I have a better chance of saving it when someone tries to punt me.
 
Are you using a wheel or the controller, though? I really want a wheel at this point. It is extreamly difficult to feather the throttle just right with the stick. One of the reasons I use the EVO. The other is that I have a better chance of saving it when someone tries to punt me.

Wheel. It is much more difficult to make minute adjustments with the controller. When I do use the controller, I set the triggers to be gas and brake because you can control it slightly better that way. IMO, you need to get a wheel if you want to be in full control of an assistless 750PP car.
 
umm no!....races are won on the straights. Its how you exit the turn. Why do you think nailing the Apex a big key in winning. People spend alot of time studying turns just so they get out of it faster. I dont know if you realized but the start/finnish is just one big straight...HP is a big deal. and than after HP its aerodynamics. Get your stuff right.

Let's make a test then... get a car FULL POWER and downgrade remaining settings to make it say 600PP. Drive around a track (not daytona...) and record the time.

Then change the settings on that car and do the opposite, turn everything to the max possible, from tires to aero, and reduce the power to the minimum, also matching 600PP.

Drive the same track and the let us know how it went.

Obviously the perfect setup is somewhere in between those extremes, but you will find you are faster when your cornering speed is higher, and the fastest setup is always close to aero and other corner influencing settings maxed. That is how I can win HSRing on a Tunned Elise against pretty much anything, like tuned Vettes Vipers and GT LM's (not always, but very often). And where I leave them behind is in every corner.

You physically win races in the straights because it's where the finish line is. The stuff that makes you reach that goal ahead of others is cornering speed. On a normal track that is. Much less so on an oval an not at all on drag race track. But I digress... must sleep


Unless of course you can't corner fast anyways, and then yes it's a waste to use PP on that... no offense :-)
The wall riders do it...
 
The Ford GT LM Test car handles like it is driving on air at 750pp. The car's weight is almost all the way down to Le Mans limits at 960kgs, yet the wings only give you a fraction of a Le Mans cars downforce. Overall the driving feels unnatural with the light weight. The Original test car weighs 1300+kgs, and at 700pp I had it down to 1150kgs, but at 960 kgs the car loses all its feeling.

The car also has an extra 70 horsepower now, but that really isn't the problem for me in low speed corners, it's the car rotating too easily at the low weight which makes steering control very difficult
 
The Ford GT LM Test car handles like it is driving on air at 750pp. The car's weight is almost all the way down to Le Mans limits at 960kgs, yet the wings only give you a fraction of a Le Mans cars downforce. Overall the driving feels unnatural with the light weight. The Original test car weighs 1300+kgs, and at 700pp I had it down to 1150kgs, but at 960 kgs the car loses all its feeling.

The car also has an extra 70 horsepower now, but that really isn't the problem for me in low speed corners, it's the car rotating too easily at the low weight which makes steering control very difficult

:lol: I know you started behind me in the few races I tried that car at Suzuka last night. You probably had a good view of a couple of my spins. It's SO hard not to spin it at 750pp with no assists!
 
Let's make a test then... get a car FULL POWER and downgrade remaining settings to make it say 600PP. Drive around a track (not daytona...) and record the time.

Then change the settings on that car and do the opposite, turn everything to the max possible, from tires to aero, and reduce the power to the minimum, also matching 600PP.

Drive the same track and the let us know how it went.

Obviously the perfect setup is somewhere in between those extremes, but you will find you are faster when your cornering speed is higher, and the fastest setup is always close to aero and other corner influencing settings maxed. That is how I can win HSRing on a Tunned Elise against pretty much anything, like tuned Vettes Vipers and GT LM's (not always, but very often). And where I leave them behind is in every corner.

You physically win races in the straights because it's where the finish line is. The stuff that makes you reach that goal ahead of others is cornering speed. On a normal track that is. Much less so on an oval an not at all on drag race track. But I digress... must sleep


Unless of course you can't corner fast anyways, and then yes it's a waste to use PP on that... no offense :-)
The wall riders do it...




go to 3:25 The faster your into the corner the faster you can leave it. The bigger your exit speed is. The faster you will get to the next turn. Idk if i am explaning it right, but, thats how i see it. IMO
 
go to 3:25 The faster your into the corner the faster you can leave it. The bigger your exit speed is. The faster you will get to the next turn. Idk if i am explaning it right, but, thats how i see it. IMO


Right, but you have "bigger", or more, exit speed by handling better. You can carry more speed into a corner, if you handle better.

There is a reason Elise' do so well on a roadcourse, and it isn't their acceleration. Or top speed. Its the momentum they can carry through the corners. Meaning they can brake later, carry more speed, and accelerate sooner.

You could have two cars that run the same exact time and mph in a 1/4 mile, put them on a roadcourse, and if one of them has better handling that allows them to brake later, carry more speed, and accelerate sooner, that car will be traveling at a greater mph and cover the straight in less time at the next braking point. Thus, races are won in the corners.

Now, if the other car is significantly faster in a straight line, they might be able to overcome the differance.
 

go to 3:25 The faster your into the corner the faster you can leave it. The bigger your exit speed is. The faster you will get to the next turn. Idk if i am explaning it right, but, thats how i see it. IMO

I'm confused... An F1 example to defend power and straight line speed. I think those are the fastest cornering cars in the world and if a F1 was made for straight line speed it would be 75 km/h + faster on straights. But it would loose 2 or more seconds a lap on road courses.

And about "The faster your into the corner the faster you can leave it", it's not that simple. If a car can do a corner at 100, entering it a 105, means loosing grip, missing the apex, and slowing down to say 90. Thus exiting it slower. Straight line speed is achieved with "slow in, fast out".

And look at Indy cars. On road courses the cars have a big wing to take corners faster. On oval tracks they have little or no aero, a little wing. So for GT5P, with PP regulations, you have to assure corner speed first, then worry about straight line speed (and power).

But maybe I'm missing your point, I'll watch the video better on my PC later.
 
Ahhh, the old "Speed Vs. Handing" debate, it will forever remain in motorsports as the question everyone knows, and at the same time doesn't know the answer to ;)

I'll weigh my opinion in, but please, if and when you start quoting me telling me I'm wrong, please bear in mind it is purely my opinion.

In my opinion, speed is meaningless when the amount of speed is negligible to your competition, as it is in most of the online events in Prologue. Yes, you can be a good deal faster than the rest, and this all depends track by track, but if you take Suzuka for example, the fact that my car can pull upwards of 30 MPH (I have no idea what that is in KM's) faster down the straights than you is moot, because the straights are few and far between, and while I'm braking earlier, taking wide, cautious turns, and slowly accelerating out, you're zipping through the S bends with ease, like a little daredevil, and more than making up for the straights with the fact that you can most certainly maintain a faster average speed through them. In my opinion, if you take any track that contains a good deal of turns, cornering is priority. If you can lose me through 10 corners and gain ground on me all the while, the difference between you and me will probably be such that gaining ground on the 1 or 2 straights seems worthless, and as the race progresses, you'll begin to notice it right away.

This is another reason why I don't believe in mixing drivetrains for competition. Now, you can say what you want to, but a car such as the GT-R will out perfrom a Corvette any day of the week. All this understeer and excuses I here, the fact of the matter is your car can grip the track much easier with simple torque adjustments. RWD's shouldn't be competing with anything but RWD's, and the same should be said for AWD's and FWD's. If you're just screwing around, mucking it up, fine and dandy, but for serious competition, there's no excuse for that. If you want real serious competition, all cars should be the same and that's that, but one of the biggest differences I see made are drivetrain differences. I know, I know, all you AWD users are probably going to pounce on me, call me a RWD fanatic and whatnot, and you'd be right, I like my RWD cars, but the fact of the matter is you know you have a clear advantage on me when it comes to cornering speed and style. I'm not saying it makes you a bad competitor, I'm just saying if anyone is looking for bragging rights and serious competition, you need to really level the playing field for everyone.

I'm sorry to those who disagree, but this is my feelings on the whole thing. I believe cornering is a priority, and I believe that AWD cars have the clear advantage in that department. This is your style and taste, and I have nothing against it, I just prefer the raw power, speed, and the unpredicatable, delicate style of driving a high end RWD. It's sort of a rush to know that the slightest screw up has a domino effect in a RWD, whereas with your Skylines and Lancers, you'd have to try pretty hard to seriously put yourself at risk.
 
What Michael is saying there at 3:25, is that he typically can out brake other drivers. He can brake later, while still hitting the apex. And thus the old saying: Brake to go faster. Words to live by.
 
Ahhh, the old "Speed Vs. Handing" debate, it will forever remain in motorsports as the question everyone knows, and at the same time doesn't know the answer to ;)

I'll weigh my opinion in, but please, if and when you start quoting me telling me I'm wrong, please bear in mind it is purely my opinion.

In my opinion, speed is meaningless when the amount of speed is negligible to your competition, as it is in most of the online events in Prologue. Yes, you can be a good deal faster than the rest, and this all depends track by track, but if you take Suzuka for example, the fact that my car can pull upwards of 30 MPH (I have no idea what that is in KM's) faster down the straights than you is moot, because the straights are few and far between, and while I'm braking earlier, taking wide, cautious turns, and slowly accelerating out, you're zipping through the S bends with ease, like a little daredevil, and more than making up for the straights with the fact that you can most certainly maintain a faster average speed through them. In my opinion, if you take any track that contains a good deal of turns, cornering is priority. If you can lose me through 10 corners and gain ground on me all the while, the difference between you and me will probably be such that gaining ground on the 1 or 2 straights seems worthless, and as the race progresses, you'll begin to notice it right away.

This is another reason why I don't believe in mixing drivetrains for competition. Now, you can say what you want to, but a car such as the GT-R will out perfrom a Corvette any day of the week. All this understeer and excuses I here, the fact of the matter is your car can grip the track much easier with simple torque adjustments. RWD's shouldn't be competing with anything but RWD's, and the same should be said for AWD's and FWD's. If you're just screwing around, mucking it up, fine and dandy, but for serious competition, there's no excuse for that. If you want real serious competition, all cars should be the same and that's that, but one of the biggest differences I see made are drivetrain differences. I know, I know, all you AWD users are probably going to pounce on me, call me a RWD fanatic and whatnot, and you'd be right, I like my RWD cars, but the fact of the matter is you know you have a clear advantage on me when it comes to cornering speed and style. I'm not saying it makes you a bad competitor, I'm just saying if anyone is looking for bragging rights and serious competition, you need to really level the playing field for everyone.

I'm sorry to those who disagree, but this is my feelings on the whole thing. I believe cornering is a priority, and I believe that AWD cars have the clear advantage in that department. This is your style and taste, and I have nothing against it, I just prefer the raw power, speed, and the unpredicatable, delicate style of driving a high end RWD. It's sort of a rush to know that the slightest screw up has a domino effect in a RWD, whereas with your Skylines and Lancers, you'd have to try pretty hard to seriously put yourself at risk.

I agree with this, the AWD cars are much quicker and easier to control through the corners then the RWD cars, and an AWD car with power like the GT-R can keep up with any RWD car down the straight.

However according to Nurburgring lap times the GT-R is one of the fastest production cars in the world, so I have no problem with it's rediculous speed in the game.

The AWD Lancer Evolution X can handle better through the corners but it's engine isn't very good so most RWD cars can make the time up they lost in the corners on the straight.

I haven't driven or raced against many skylines so no comment on them.

Of all the AWD cars that I've raced against or driven the Nissan R35 GT-R is the fastest and it really shouldn't be competing vs the other cars in the game online because it's simply faster then them even at equal pp because of the advanced AWD and great power plant under the hood. It should have it's own race event or should be cut short pp.

So yeah, RWD cars may be harder to control then AWD cars, but the only AWD car I've seen with a rediculous advantage is the Nissan R35 GT-R
 

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