80's cars list and comparo

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jeffgoddin

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Just going to start with the list today so others can chime in with their favorites and any comparisons they've done. Still in the early stages of sorting through them all. I'll be looking at stock utility (can it win races), handling and cost, cost of tuning, ultimate utility and handling before R mod, and then again if R mod is available, style of stock body, style of R mod if available, fully tuned power band quality for AT shifting, and uniqueness, with bonus points for being early 80's. Anything else you would look at?

Many models required a bit of research to establish their inclusion in this 80's model list, more than a few are here that I did not anticipate, and several I'm still not 100% sure should be on the list (Celica GT-Four RC '91, RX-7 Infini III and Cabriolet '90, RUF BTR Type II.) Anybody I'm missing?

Corvette Stingray '82
Starlet 3 Door Turbo S '82
Celica XX 2800GT '83
RX-7 '83
Levin/Trueno Type I '83
RUF BTR Type I '83
Skyline Silhouette R30 '84
Skyline 2000 RS-X R30 '84
Delta S4 '85
Levin/Trueno Type II '85
RS200 Rally Car '86
MR2 1600G-Limited '86
Skyline GTS-R R31 '87
Tommykaira M30 '87
Starlet 3 Door Turbo S '87
RUF Yellowbird '87
Delta HF Integrale '88
Celica GT-Four '88
Silvia K's 1800cc '88
Silvia Q's 1800cc '88
Skyline GT-R R32 '89
Protege 4Door Sedan '89
MX-5 '89
March Super Turbo '89
RUF BTR Type II '89
Supra GT Ltd '89
RX-7 GT-X '90
RX-7 Infini III '90
RX-7 Cabriolet '90
Lotus Elan S2 '90
Infiniti G20 GT '90
NSX '90
Celica GT-Four '91
Celica GT-Four RC '91
Celica GT-R '91
Supra Twinturbo-R '91
CRX SiR VTEC '91
 
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Just a few thoughts regarding a few 80s cars I have some experience with.

Corvette Stingray '82: Underpowered in HP means for a Corvette but still with way too much torque so with sports tires you get the handling of soap tarmac. Back flings out whenever you take a corner in 3rd gear or lower. Both stock and [R] are looking bombastic through.

RX-7 '83: One of the best 80s cars in that power range. Needs some settings tweaks but with a good tuning it's way better than the second generation RX-7s. [R] mod is one of the best looking in the game.


Skyline GTS-R R31 '87: Simply awesome. Nice power and awesome, almost kart-like handling with a stiff suspension.
 
Thanks for chiming in!

Yup, yup, '82 Stingray absolutely gorgeous, but best left in the garage. I'm actually thankful the back swings out like like because otherwise it has the turning radius of an ocean liner!

From my notes re: the R31: "Holy c#@p what a sweet ride!" This ones a keeper! And if you liked that, try the Tommykaira M30. Its 3L engine delivers a very wide power band fully tuned and you still get the same driving pleasure from the base chassis. Competitive in a few more events, too.
 
Still working on this, somewhat less than halfway through, but have a couple notes to make.

Manufacturer Representation: not many are here, and two really stand out. what's up with that, PD?

Toyota: 12*
Nissan: 9
Mazda: 6
RUF: 3
Honda: 2
Lancia: 2
Lotus: 1
Chevy: 1
Ford: 1

*On further review, the Supra Twinturbo R looks like it wasn't released until Aug 1990 as a special Japan-only super sporty version of the Supra revision introduced first in 1989. The only reference to a Twinturbo R before 1990 I could find was for a 1988 model car... so I'll include it because obviously PD did in the 80's events, but I really think they screwed up on that.

One preliminary result of interest, the '82 Stingray, although not on par with either earlier or later corvettes, actually holds its own quite well. In the "normal car" category (which excludes RUFs and Racing mod only models like the Delta S4 and Skyline Silhouette) it has great 1000m times and top speed, and comparing the normal cars at a given weight to power ratio it puts up the best lap times until the Tommykaira M30 (even handicapping it for being overweight and giving lighter weight cars like the '86 MR2 and '83 RX-7 more hp.) This is probably due to 2 factors: it's incredibly sleek and has less drag than most cars, and its engine has a wonderful powerband profile even tuned, so that at a given hp it's got more hp available on average through a lap than most any other car would. So, at the end of the day, it will take you almost as far through the events as any of the other normal cars available (at least through 1988... once we get to the '89 GT-R it'll be another story!) Just wanted to state this for the record since I was bashing the poor thing earlier for sucky handling.

Edit: Oi! I made Junior member status! Just 200x more posts to catch up to Parnelli...
 
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Okay, that took forever.

In this list of cars, there are really three different main categories going on. 1) the supercars, which start with lots of DF and power; 2) the crappy micro boxes; and 3) more or less normal cars. It's really nor fair to compare between categories, do I'll deal with them separately, and I'm going to start with the normal cars.

I used a ton of metrics, giving some more weight than others. I looked at stock performance in a variety of ways, and I looked at fully tuned performance both with and without the R mod. I also looked at stock utility, how many events you could reasonably win without any tuning. I looked at fully tuned potential, what's the toughest event you could reasonably win given full tuning, with and without R mod. I considered subjective elements like styling and sound, and debatable elements like historic significance and uniqueness. I took note of purchase price and tuning cost.

I gave the most weight though to a kind of handicapped time trial at the final 80's event at Tahiti comparing cars at a slightly better than stock tuning. Sport suspension and tires were added, and then weight was brought as close to 1200kg as possible (without R mod). The goal was 4.37 kg/hp, or 275hp at 1200kg. If your weight was higher or lower than 1200kg, though, your kg/hp goal would actually change according to what I've determined is pretty much fair, given that heavier cars have a clear advantage at a fixed weight to power ratio. Basically if you're heavier, like the Stingray at 1349kg, the 4.37 kg/hp goal would tell you to tune to 308hp, but my adjusted goal tells me to tune to only 297hp. For a 1020kg car, instead of 233hp, you get 246hp. I'm happy to say that after completing all the time trials I analyzed the data to see if there was still any advantage given to heavier or lighter cars with the new formula I used, and there was absolutely none. As far as I can tell, I've solved the problem of how to compare cars of different weights. For the time trial, I added camber and then ran 10 laps. Watching the replay I recorded all the section times, then did the math to identify the best section times each car had over all 10 laps, then added those times together to get what I believe is a lap time which is very close to the best I could do if given 100 laps to try.

I kind of mentioned it above, but I'm looking at AT performance. This certainly favors some cars over overs, but I'm just no good at driving MT, too many things to think about. If given the option to push to the rev limit before shifting, many of these cars would see dramatically improved performance I have no doubt.

Well, enough ado about method, here's the results (and the winner is...):

Tommykaira M30 - best time in the time trial, great powerband

but really there was a clear pack of seven at the top, with the Tommykaira M30 only slightly in the lead. The next 6 in order:

RX-7 Infini III '90
NSX '90
Supra Twinturbo-R '91
Supra (Turbo) '93 (aka GT Ltd '89)
Silvia K's 1800cc '88
RX-7 GT-X '90

next a group of 3 to round out the top 10 best normal cars of the 80's:

Skyline GT-R R32 '89
Skyline GTS-R R31 '87
Miata '89

the middle of the pack descends as follows:
Stingray '82 - absolutely great powerband helps a lot
RX-7 '83
MR2 1600G-Limited '86
Skyline 2000 RS-X R31 '84
Primera GT '90 (aka Infinity G20 '90)
Celica GT-Four '91
Delta HF Integrale '88 - was okay with custom tranny, but stock powerband is obviously rally tuned and meant to be shifted early
Celica GT-Four RC '91

and what can be considered the bottom of the pack:
all Levin/Truenos
Celica GT-Four '88
Celica '83
Celica GT-R '91
323 4Door Sedan aka Protege
Starlet 3 door Turbo S '87
Lotus Elan S2 '90 (how embarrassing for Lotus!)
Starlet 3 door Turbo S '82
Nissan Micra/March superturbo '89

did not look at Silvia Q (like K but less so), RX-7 Cabriolet (like GT-X but less so), or CR-X (soo weak, couldn't compete in the last 80's event.)

A few notes: Very many of these cars peak at about the same level, at the Tuned Turbo-3 event, while a few peak at Turbo-1, and quite a few at Pure Sport-3. So for the most part, the difference in the potential length of your career in these cars is only a couple events. Of course there were a few dogs that could barely win the 3rd convertible event, and a couple couldn't even do that. But most of these cars can have a very long career.

Powerband is key, those that have a good one will be among the best, no amount of perfect balance or aerodynamics will make up for not having power when you need it.

I backwards calculated drag coefficients from top speed trials and this was quite enlightening. Evidently PD wanted to give the Miata an advantage, because its drag is more than 10% less than what it should be, and it's the sleekest car in this 80's comparison. The MR2, Silvia, and Primera are also quite slippery in the wind, which helps them to be overachievers at high speed. The GT-R R32 '87 however is about as aerodynamic as a cardboard box, and this handicap unfortunately prevents it from making the top of the pack. Guess the front air dam to add DF takes its toll. The Celica GT-Four RC is also quite a beast to push to high speeds, but the widebody probably helps for lower speed rally performance so that's the tradeoff Toyota made.

Well, that was the most interesting list. I included the micro boxes though as you'd expect they're all at the end.

Among the RUF's the BTR Type I is the clear favorite, and will outperform anything else the 80's had to offer, posting the best 1000m time, top speed, and winning the GT world championship. We all know the Skyline Silhouette is great, too, of course. The Delta S4 was a real disappointment, and the RS200 was nice but nothing special.
 
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The Delta S4 was a real disappointment,
Recently I've tried to only use Italian cars to complete the game, and I bought the S4 to replace an Integrale Evoluzione I had brought to 293hp with almost no modifications apart from power and weight.
I've got to agree with you: it isn't fast: compared with a fully-modified Delta Collezione I bought later, it's 2-3 seconds slower:

Rome Long
S4: 1'24.606
Coll.: 1'23.045

Apricot Hill
S4: 1'21.262
Coll.: 1'18.198

I would say that the 8V 1988 Delta (which I didn't bought in this savegame but I did in many others) is surely the best street 80s car I've ever tried in GT2: if tuned to 250-300hp, it will easily go faster than any Japanese car of the same era, and also will be a lot more pleasant to drive. I've had many Supra's and MR2 at the beginning of each game, and none of them, though with comparable power, proved to be better.
 
If you race that '88 Delta with a custom tranny and shift it manually, I'm sure it makes a world of difference, maybe enough to propel it to the top of the list of best 80's cars. Its low rpm torque and hp simply can't be beat, you'll never find another car in the game with better engine response in that range, but after a hp peak near something like 4000rpm, it loses fully 1/3 of its power as hp crashes to the redline of like 6000rpm. For automatic driving with stock tranny, I never got to see full hp out of it, it was always running at like 2/3-3/4 power, so in comparison with other cars with better powerbands for automatic driving where you can see an average of 90% power delivered, the Delta just wasn't even close.

It finished right in the middle of the pack, actually, with a best lap time around tahiti of 1:10.122 at 1209kg and 276hp, while the Infini III for example at 1200kg and 273hp made a best lap of 1:08.643 to finish towards the top. Only mods beside weight and power were sport suspension and tires.

But seriously you can win the game with only Italian cars??? (manufacturers events aside obviously) Granted, among FFs Alfas are pretty much boss with the 156 V6. I imagine you're racing the 155 touring car a lot, which of course is very much fun with its 14000rpms! But you really don't have many options... Damn licensing or you'd have Ferrari and Lambos to make cleaning up easy.
 
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But seriously you can win the game with only Italian cars??? (manufacturers events aside obviously) Granted, among FFs Alfas are pretty much boss with the 156 V6. I imagine you're racing the 155 touring car a lot, which of course is very much fun with its 14000rpms! But you really don't have many options... Damn licensing or you'd have Ferrari and Lambos to make cleaning up easy.

I'm not sure I'll have the time to end it (I've never won it, neither with normal options). I've already cheated to buy the first car (155 TS, 11860£) then, after 50days, I realized I could just complete a gold license to get enough money...
After all, it isn't that difficult: the only hard races were the first ones (the 155 is awful): I used it for the first 20 days (pain) then I bought the Delta (Day 20-60) then moved to the S4 and 155 together. Later I bought another Delta to beat the Test Track race of the Turbo Cup (didn't trust the S4).
For MR section I'll win a Stratos from Enduro (in 10 years since I bought GT2, I never entered an endurance race...); for FR and manufacturer events I'll just change the name of the car or its chassis (I'll switch back before starting racing) with GS codes...
Now I'm at day 92 (35% more or less), I'll probably continue during my Christmas holidays...
 
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