A possible fix for jittery lobbies?

[Leggacy]

I’ve been getting rather fed up with every open lobby I join being a jittery mess. So recently I did a small test between my PS4 and PS5. I hosted on the 4 and joined with the 5 running the PS4 version. There was no jitter and everything was fine, if I left the lobby and rejoined with the PS5 version of the game, from the perspective of the PS4 the PS5 car lagged and jittered but from the point of view of the PS5 everything looked ok.

So my guess is there’s conflict between the software versions that cause the jittering.

To add to this I hosted a lobby on the 5 with two other PS5’s and my PS4. All the PS5 players saw no lag or jitter but from the PS4 the other cars (PS5) all jittered.

The solution?

PS5 players (especially the ones with VR) will hate this simple trick: Run the PS4 version on the 5 if you have a mixed lobby. From what I’ve seen it makes a big difference but i haven’t been able to test it with enough people.

Am I on to something here or is my theory just a load of nonsense?

It’s rather telling that cross play is disabled in sport mode. It’s like they know it’s a problem but don’t want to address it. Sport mode lobbies play fine but they are server based rather than P2P.

 

[SnakeEyes427]

It's not the mix of consoles causing the shakes. It was there and much worse in every game GT5 and up. The problem is in the networking of all the different internet speeds of all the players. This includes the hard lines of the internet providers themselves. So don't blame the people who can't spend $200 on internet each month.

Like I said, it was and could be worse.

 

[Leggacy]

It's not the mix of consoles causing the shakes. It was there and much worse in every game GT5 and up. The problem is in the networking of all the different internet speeds of all the players. This includes the hard lines of the internet providers themselves. So don't blame the people who can't spend $200 on internet each month.

Like I said, it was and could be worse.

Not blaming anyone for anything. GT sport has always been very stable and ultra smooth, never seen anything like we get in GT7. Cars are constantly wobbling and making tyre noises. All other racing games I have don’t have this problem, it’s just GT7. There is an issue, this needs it needs testing.

Also I Said it’s the software versions not the mix of consoles. And from what I can see between my two consoles hosted on a very good connection shows that they don’t play well together.

Edit: I know that a sample size of one shows nothing other that anecdotal evidence. Which is why I need more people to try this out so then we can have more of an idea of what is actually happening (science🤘)

 

[mattikake]

It's not the mix of consoles causing the shakes. It was there and much worse in every game GT5 and up. The problem is in the networking of all the different internet speeds of all the players. This includes the hard lines of the internet providers themselves. So don't blame the people who can't spend $200 on internet each month.

Like I said, it was and could be worse.

Are you referring to jitter or lag? Two different effects with different underlying causes.

Ime a PS5 only lobby is fine.

 

[SnakeEyes427]

Only real point I was making is that the stability of lobbies is vastly superior to what it was in any other version of the game.
Why back when I was a much younger Squirrel, having expensive internet was not a safe bet. Lag, hops, jumps and, spontaneous disconnects (like in the Matrix) was completely normal. It would take a 30 mins to stabilize a room.

Just be happy and have fun. Story times over. Now get off my lawn! (🤣)

 

[hawkeyez]

I’ve noticed jitteryness on Kyoto with sunsets and sunrises. As for jittering any other time, I’ve only noticed it when somebody enters the track. Usually not when somebody enters the room, and it’s only a short jitter. But the sunset, sunrise changes on certain tracks is atrocious.

 

[J Vulture]

.

 

[Leggacy]

I was kind of hoping someone would try out what I have outlined in the original post and report back with confirming or denying it but no one seems interested.

 

[TJC_69]

What the lobby system needs is a simple 3 option box.

Cross gen play
PS4 only
PS5 only

This solves the issue immediately as the code/consoles/or something is very wrong between the generations of machine.

Dailies are console separated and have been since day 1. Manu and nations is cross gen due to running on dedicated servers.

As Polyphony clearly don't want to add dedicated servers for dailies or lobbies, then just give us the option to fix your broken game issues ourselves.

Polyphony, are you reading?....

As for the OPs idea of running the PS4 version on PS5. That's a big no thanks from me. I didn't buy a PS5 to run a PS4 version of a game. That's utterly pointless 👍🏻

 

[Leggacy]

What the lobby system needs is a simple 3 option box.

Cross gen play
PS4 only
PS5 only

This solves the issue immediately as the code/consoles/or something is very wrong between the generations of machine.

Dailies are console separated and have been since day 1. Manu and nations is cross gen due to running on dedicated servers.

As Polyphony clearly don't want to add dedicated servers for dailies or lobbies, then just give us the option to fix your broken game issues ourselves.

Polyphony, are you reading?....

As for the OPs idea of running the PS4 version on PS5. That's a big no thanks from me. I didn't buy a PS5 to run a PS4 version of a game. That's utterly pointless 👍🏻

Well there is a point to running the PS4 version; if you run a regular lobby or league with mixed consoles it would ensure smooth racing all the time. The racing is the important thing not the extra graphical sprinkles. I find it hard to drive around cars that are wobbling and lagging all over the place, it’s not how it should be or even realistic.

Seems like there is resistance to even trying it out to see what the results are. Think I’ll just stick to sport races in the future, at least it’s smooth.

 

[hawkeyez]

Well there is a point to running the PS4 version; if you run a regular lobby or league with mixed consoles it would ensure smooth racing all the time. The racing is the important thing not the extra graphical sprinkles. I find it hard to drive around cars that are wobbling and lagging all over the place, it’s not how it should be or even realistic.

Seems like there is resistance to even trying it out to see what the results are. Think I’ll just stick to sport races in the future, at least it’s smooth.

I wonder if they just replaced GT7 with GT5, there shouldn’t be any lag between PS4 and PS5 then.

 

[Leggacy]

I wonder if they just replaced GT7 with GT5, there shouldn’t be any lag between PS4 and PS5 then.

Not sure what you’re getting at but it should be noted that there is no lag or wobbling in GT Sport between PS4 & 5, probably because they are running the same version of the software.

 

[hawkeyez]

Not sure what you’re getting at but it should be noted that there is no lag or wobbling in GT Sport between PS4 & 5, probably because they are running the same version of the software.

GT Sport graphics aren’t as good as GT7 are they? I tried Gt Sport demo and thought project cars 2 looked better.

I’m with the other guy, I have a PS5 because I wanted graphical upgrades. Don’t give me the PS4 because you don’t know how to make lobbies work between the two.

 

[llNovall]

I was kind of hoping someone would try out what I have outlined in the original post and report back with confirming or denying it but no one seems interested.

I can report on your findings. I run an exclusive PS5 only series on Friday nights. All drivers with known PS5's using the ps5 versions inside the United States run super smooth among one another. Introduce a Ps4 player into the mix, and the ps4 player is jittery to the ps5 players. Drivers outside our region on ps5 with ps5 version do have a jitter/gentle lag, specifically from Australia (MrDonovan), and it wasnt game breaking. We had 2 other drivers on PS5 systems with ps5 upgrades that were jittering...one confirmed to be on wireless signal (rsrgse), the other on a super fast in-home network (Icewarden). Outside of those 3 drivers, the room overall looked good. Here is our race broadcast to give an idea of our overall room performance.

 

[DJShadesUK]

Only real point I was making is that the stability of lobbies is vastly superior to what it was in any other version of the game.
Why back when I was a much younger Squirrel, having expensive internet was not a safe bet. Lag, hops, jumps and, spontaneous disconnects (like in the Matrix) was completely normal. It would take a 30 mins to stabilize a room.

Just be happy and have fun. Story times over. Now get off my lawn! (🤣)

View attachment 1256701

I think you're still completely missing the issue here which you may be confusing for lag. The so-called "Jitter" issue is where vehicles, as they deviate from driving in a straight line, appear to rapidly and cyclically (as in at a regular timed interval) shift left and right, which gets progressively worse with more steering input; the tighter the corner, the more steering input, the more Jitter. While a distinct issue from lag it is suspected that the root cause of the Jitter issue is related to the sub-system that is designed to correct for lag butting in when it shouldn't really be doing so. Its been discussed at depth on here before so I'm not going to go into it yet again but basically GT is arguing with itself over where your opponents should be:

Opponents GT: Hey, this car is here.
Your GT: Okay, but I think it should be here.
Opponents GT: Well its not, its here.
Your GT: Yeah, but I think it should be here.
Opponents GT: But it isn't, its here.
Your GT:

 

[Leggacy]

I can report on your findings. I run an exclusive PS5 only series on Friday nights. All drivers with known PS5's using the ps5 versions inside the United States run super smooth among one another. Introduce a Ps4 player into the mix, and the ps4 player is jittery to the ps5 players. Drivers outside our region on ps5 with ps5 version do have a jitter/gentle lag, specifically from Australia (MrDonovan), and it wasnt game breaking. We had 2 other drivers on PS5 systems with ps5 upgrades that were jittering...one confirmed to be on wireless signal (rsrgse), the other on a super fast in-home network (Icewarden). Outside of those 3 drivers, the room overall looked good. Here is our race broadcast to give an idea of our overall room performance.

I can see some wobbling there, I don’t find it acceptable. you’re right it’s not game breaking but it breaks my concentration and I can’t get immersed if cars around look like they jumping around.

I only suggest playing the PS4 version when the lobby has a mix of consoles, as it might stop all that jitter. But if you suggest it to your average PS5 player they point blank refuse without even trying. So I’ve got no evidence for full lobbies but I’d like to try it out. It seems that slightly better graphics and dual sense controls out weighs the desire to have a smooth immersing race with your friends or in a league.

 

[TJC_69]

Well there is a point to running the PS4 version; if you run a regular lobby or league with mixed consoles it would ensure smooth racing all the time. The racing is the important thing not the extra graphical sprinkles. I find it hard to drive around cars that are wobbling and lagging all over the place, it’s not how it should be or even realistic.

Seems like there is resistance to even trying it out to see what the results are. Think I’ll just stick to sport races in the future, at least it’s smooth.

Disagree. I do run regular lobbies, and I stream them. Nobody is ever going to convince me to downgrade my game experience and load times due to Polyphony porting the game at a late stage onto the 4. That's not happening.

I guess it's a happy accident for Polyphony that the PS4 version is causing problems. Makes more people have to jump to PS5 to stop the lag.

But, to be honest, the PS4 version was only ever a stop gap for the consumers so they didn't miss out playing the game at launch due to the semi conductor shortage, and Sony made an extra buck or million in sales.

PS5 has been out for 2.5 years now, and they are easier than ever to get hold of. It's about time PS4 players got into current generation gaming already. If most were on the 5 we'd have no lobby lag issues whatsoever....

Or, they, Polyphony, could put in the 3 lobby options that I suggested and you dismissed, (Cross gen, PS4 only, PS5 only).

Because, apparently, I should play a PS4 version on a PS5 to give old generation gamers, who refuse to upgrade, a better lobby experience...

Uh....nope.

The fix is in Polyphony's hands or the old gen gamers. I'm waiting for either/or to get their shizz together.

Wake me up when they do.

 

[mattikake]

Disagree. I do run regular lobbies, and I stream them. Nobody is ever going to convince me to downgrade my game experience and load times due to Polyphony porting the game at a late stage onto the 4. That's not happening.

I guess it's a happy accident for Polyphony that the PS4 version is causing problems. Makes more people have to jump to PS5 to stop the lag.

But, to be honest, the PS4 version was only ever a stop gap for the consumers so they didn't miss out playing the game at launch due to the semi conductor shortage, and Sony made an extra buck or million in sales.

PS5 has been out for 2.5 years now, and they are easier than ever to get hold of. It's about time PS4 players got into current generation gaming already. If most were on the 5 we'd have no lobby lag issues whatsoever....

Or, they, Polyphony, could put in the 3 lobby options that I suggested and you dismissed, (Cross gen, PS4 only, PS5 only).

Because, apparently, I should play a PS4 version on a PS5 to give old generation gamers, who refuse to upgrade, a better lobby experience...

Uh....nope.

The fix is in Polyphony's hands or the old gen gamers. I'm waiting for either/or to get their shizz together.

Wake me up when they do.

I like the idea of a cross gen option. It's an option in a lot of games. WOT has it for e.g.. (and guess what, it works fine with cross gen). Trouble is, you'll find the place quite dead for activity and you could almost forget going to find a random lobby race. In which case, you might as well just save this for league racing, which most do anyway.

I think I might start getting snobby in lobbies and boot laggers claiming they're on ps4 in my lobbies, or demand laggers are booted in someone else's lobby.

 

[TJC_69]

I like the idea of a cross gen option. It's an option in a lot of games. WOT has it for e.g.. (and guess what, it works fine with cross gen). Trouble is, you'll find the place quite dead for activity and you could almost forget going to find a random lobby race. In which case, you might as well just save this for league racing, which most do anyway.

I like the idea of cross generation gaming also. If it works. I estimate around 60%+ of all GT7 players are now on PS5. Yourself now included as you were on a 4.

I predict around 70% on GT7 in the next year or so as the newer console is easier to buy and the players leave their dusty PS4s behind. That's a clear majority of players on 5s looking for clean racing. I don't think it would be dead at all. Even now, in my community at least, I estimate well over half own the 5 as they saw myself and others play it and want the best version of the game possible.

I think I might start getting snobby in lobbies and boot laggers claiming they're on ps4 in my lobbies, or demand laggers are booted in someone else's lobby.

Running lobbies with moaning players going on and on about who's lagging or not is not fun for the host. I'd kick anyone making such demands to me about how I should run my lobbies. And most serious hosts would too.

 

[RacinLei]

I dont know why we are still talking about it, it is clear that crossgen is not working and will never work. Take a look what happen to Halo infinity, it is completely broken becaus of crossgen.

SPLIT THE VERSIONS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION

I stoped online gaming because of that problem. It is no fun to race those lobbys, it is no fun to argue after the races. It is no fun that ps4 hase still slight advatage because of lower impact of physiks, resulting in slightly better times.
Open lobby is since online racing my main part of gaming and PD ruint it completely. Pd knows it and they dont care about it.

Best solution is end Gtsport support and take these servers so PD can split both versions.

For what we have a ps5? only to run the ps4 version for a better online expiriance? For what we have payed 10 bugs more?
It is not my fault that PD is not willing to do something, and yes i dont care about the ps4.
OLD GEN IS DEAD

 

[TJC_69]

I dont know why we are still talking about it, it is clear that crossgen is not working and will never work. Take a look what happen to Halo infinity, it is completely broken becaus of crossgen.

SPLIT THE VERSIONS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION

Agreed.

I stoped online gaming because of that problem. It is no fun to race those lobbys, it is no fun to argue after the races. It is no fun that ps4 hase still slight advatage because of lower impact of physiks, resulting in slightly better times.

Is this an actual thing? (The PS4 version having a lap time advantage because potato processors). Is the PS4 running different, dumbed down physics? I'm curious. I have some PS4 players on pad that have become lap time gods in the last 6 months or so. I'm wondering if it's driver skill, the pad buffs, or could it be this?

Open lobby is since online racing my main part of gaming and PD ruint it completely. Pd knows it and they dont care about it.

I agree. I don't think console parity with net code is in their plans. If it was, we wouldn't have this lag since day 1 and the forever promise in known issues of ''trust us bros, we'll fix it later''.

Best solution is end Gtsport support and take these servers so PD can split both versions.

They could simply add dedicated servers for all game modes for GT7. And they could do it tomorrow. Ride 4 and others have dedicated servers for online play. Good old GT with its wonky peer to peer in 2023 though. They just don't want to spend the money on servers where it could help the game massively. I found top of the line dedicated servers at Hosting.co.uk costing £435.83/month. Granted, I know nothing about how they'd go about that as a business, but I can see this would be a cost to them. And seeing as GT7 is the real MTX simulator, I can see them just wanting maximum profits over our experience. Sony and Polyphony after all... Imagine this game with silky smooth cars running 1 cm from each other online. And how absolutely amazing that racing would be. And compare it to what they lump us with, it's a huge insult.

For what we have a ps5? only to run the ps4 version for a better online expiriance? For what we have payed 10 bugs more?
It is not my fault that PD is not willing to do something, and yes i dont care about the ps4.
OLD GEN IS DEAD

Exactly my point. I've encountered this a lot. The PS4 player mindset saying ''oh well I bought the game so I have no need to upgrade to a 5 now!!''. Uh, ok then smh. They don't get that Polyphony only ported it to the 4 due to the sniffles shutdown and the chip shortage. Oh, and profit. Moaaaaar profit for Sony. Pffft.

 

[RacinLei]

@TJC_69

It is a combination of several things.
Noone can programm on 2 so diffrent machines the exact same physics. And on both version are slightly diffrent weather conditions. I notice it with several cars, tracks and evnts. Right now you can test it on the green hell tt. The supra hase a slighlty grip advantage. It dosnt slip so hard like on the ps5 version.
Then the ps4 controller the trigger travel is slightly shorter and stickmovement is a bit less and it felt i have a bit more steering angel ergo easyer in tight corners.

I test it back to back with diffrent events and cars, the diffrents are minor and only noticeable on the limit but there are real.

But i cant blame the ps4 user for it that those diffrents and problems exist. Its PDs fault.
Crossgen release is ok but crossgen online gaming dosnt work and will never work. It is on PD to do something.

 

[hawkeyez]

@TJC_69

It is a combination of several things.
Noone can programm on 2 so diffrent machines the exact same physics. And on both version are slightly diffrent weather conditions. I notice it with several cars, tracks and evnts. Right now you can test it on the green hell tt. The supra hase a slighlty grip advantage. It dosnt slip so hard like on the ps5 version.
Then the ps4 controller the trigger travel is slightly shorter and stickmovement is a bit less and it felt i have a bit more steering angel ergo easyer in tight corners.

I test it back to back with diffrent events and cars, the diffrents are minor and only noticeable on the limit but there are real.

But i cant blame the ps4 user for it that those diffrents and problems exist. Its PDs fault.
Crossgen release is ok but crossgen online gaming dosnt work and will never work. It is on PD to do something.

Cross gen works at times… my uncle plays COD on PS4. I know for a fact he isn’t buying a PS5 any time soon. So it’s nice to be able to game online with him. But that being said, if I’m not gaming online with him, sure a toggle to play PS5 servers only would be nice. I mean they can toggle out keyboard and mouse controllers, so why not systems and why not wheel or controller?

Who knows, I may open a wheel only, ps5 only room and nobody shows up? But it’d be interesting to see. I know if I leave traction control and all of those assists on the room always fills up more but I find the racing less fun And more violent. And while I’m on that topic, what’s with rooms having no tire or PP limit? You jump in a room like that and it’s almost always full and everyone is running whatever, nobody is remotely competitive with each other, if you want to be, tomahawk or red bull. Idk I just don’t get it. Lol

 

[RacinLei]

@hawkeyez

It can work but it is a game by game thing. It is a diffrent between a shooter lobby where 24+ people jump and lock in a lobby and sync together, or like in Gt where people can jump in and out in a running session and cause on top entry exit lag becaus both version are to diffrent.
Crossgen online gaming is always a compromise for both version, ergo split the version for online gaming and leaderboards and both are happy.

 

[mattikake]

Probably needs more investigation but when I switched to PS5 I definitely and instantly found the cars much more slidey, in a tricky way particularly into corners. But this was in January before the physics patch.