A question about the BMW 3-series for you BMW nuts. :)

[JCE]

I just have a few question that I hope you can answer.

1. What do the E30, E36, and E46 numbers mean exactly? Chassis codes?
2. Does every model year have a coupe?
3. Can any of the engines directly bolt-in to other generation models? eg. Can E46 engines bolt-in an E36?
4. What's the best BMW I6 to modify with the least amount of money? eg. Which of the I6's can get more bhp with the least amount of money?
5. If the answer to #3 is no, will anyother engines directly bolt-in to any 3-series?
6. If the answer to #5 is no, are there any engine bracket kits for any engines to any 3-series models?
7. Whats the best model to start a project on where the car won't cost more than $7000 USD?
8. Any websites out there that gives me every little juicy detail on the 3-series for all generations?

Reason for me asking these questions here is it would take too long googling for some of this info--and it's so much better to get human interaction in this kind of inquiry. And the other reason is I've scrapped my RX-7 LS1 conversion project, and I'm looking for something else interesting. Thanks in advance for any information.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

1. yes ithink
2. yes ithink
3. well if its the same engine and i think some were
4 '85 325i w00t!
5dunno
6 dunno
7 '85 325i
8 look it up on google

 

[Wolfe]

Well, I'm a certified BMW nut, so here goes --

1. E30, E36, and E46 are chassis codes, yes. The "E" stands for "Entwicklung," which means "development." By the way, E21 owners aren't going to be happy that you excluded the E21, but I think they're used to being ignored by now.

2. I believe so. The 3-series started out as a coupe, and didn't receive a sedan until the second generation (E30). The E36 was the first 3-series to be a sedan first and a coupe second, but the E30 carried over until the E36 coupe came out, just like how the E46 coupe has been carried over until the E92 coupe comes out.

3. It depends on the engine and generation. Some engines are part of the same family, making bolting-in easy, but wiring/electronics can become an issue. There have been some crazy swaps, though. I've seen an 850i V12 in an E30.

4. The M30, also known as the "big six," is larger than most of the other BMW 6's, and served in the first three generations of 5-series, the old 6-series, and the first two generations of 7-series. Obviously, the more displacement you have, the easier it is to get power. If you don't need/want to go big, there's also the M20, which served in the E21 and E30...however, the M20 and M30 are starting to get old.

There's also the M50 and M52, which powered the BMW's of the 90's. The M50 has an iron block, which lends itself well to turbocharging, but the M52 is also flexible and a willing partner to naturally-aspirated tuning. These engines were replaced by the M54 in 2000/2001, which is an even better design, but the M54 is obviously newer, so everything about it is more expensive.

5. I doubt it.

6. I'm sure there are. I've seen an SR20 in an E30.

7. You should probably go for an early E36 325i or 325is. According to Kelley Blue Book, a '92 or '93 325i(s) would fit your price range.

8. BMWinfo.com, BMWWorld.com, bimmerforums.com, UnofficialBMW.com....

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Well that should be clear^^ good job

 

[JCE]

Well, I'm a certified BMW nut, so here goes --

woot

1. E30, E36, and E46 are chassis codes, yes. The "E" stands for "Entwicklung," which means "development." By the way, E21 owners aren't going to be happy that you excluded the E21, but I think they're used to being ignored by now.

I listed the 3 that I heard the most around these auto forums.

2. I believe so. The 3-series started out as a coupe, and didn't receive a sedan until the second generation (E30). The E36 was the first 3-series to be a sedan first and a coupe second, but the E30 carried over until the E36 coupe came out, just like how the E46 coupe has been carried over until the E92 coupe comes out.

Great, I prefer coupe's anyway. Doesn't make sense to me to have a fully tuned sports car....with a BMW badge...with 4 doors...that isn't an M5.

3. It depends on the engine and generation. Some engines are part of the same family, making bolting-in easy, but wiring/electronics can become an issue. There have been some crazy swaps, though. I've seen an 850i V12 in an E30.

Dude, I'd kill to stuff that V12 in a 3-series. It's good to know that most of the 3-series engines are seperated in similar generations then. That makes the decision a bit harder however.

4. The M30, also known as the "big six," is larger than most of the other BMW 6's, and served in the first three generations of 5-series, the old 6-series, and the first two generations of 7-series. Obviously, the more displacement you have, the easier it is to get power. If you don't need/want to go big, there's also the M20, which served in the E21 and E30...however, the M20 and M30 are starting to get old.

There's also the M50 and M52, which powered the BMW's of the 90's. The M50 has an iron block, which lends itself well to turbocharging, but the M52 is also flexible and a willing partner to naturally-aspirated tuning. These engines were replaced by the M54 in 2000/2001, which is an even better design, but the M54 is obviously newer, so everything about it is more expensive.

I liked the old 6-series, but I'm almost 100% sure I'll never find one in my price range--if I did I'd get one of those. I'd prefer to go NA tune vs FI. But, I won't limit myself...just depends on the situation I guess.

5. I doubt it.

Not surprised.

6. I'm sure there are. I've seen an SR20 in an E30.

So does that mean you could theoretically bolt-in an RB25DE series or RB26DE series? Since you can bolt-in those engines into Silvias/180SX's. I would drool at the chance of using a GT-R Skyline motor.

7. You should probably go for an early E36 325i or 325is. According to Kelley Blue Book, a '92 or '93 325i(s) would fit your price range.

Those are decent years, and I liked the M3 look of those years too.

8. BMWinfo.com, BMWWorld.com, bimmerforums.com, UnofficialBMW.com....

Thanks a bunch for the info. Left some "rep". 👍

 

[Jay]

So does that mean you could theoretically bolt-in an RB25DE series or RB26DE series? Since you can bolt-in those engines into Silvias/180SX's. I would drool at the chance of using a GT-R Skyline motor.

There will probably be engine mounting bracket kits available for some engines but if not it doesn't matter just make your own brackets. It wouldn't be one of my concerns when thinking of an engine conversion. I have no doubt you could fit a RB into a 3 series.

 

[JCE]

Mmmm BMW V12 for $1295+S&H.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-9...060903816QQcategoryZ46098QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Could you imagine rolling around in a 10 yearold 3-series with one of these under the bonnet?

 

[Wolfe]

Dude, I'd kill to stuff that V12 in a 3-series. It's good to know that most of the 3-series engines are seperated in similar generations then. That makes the decision a bit harder however.

The E30 "350i" --

http://www.bmw-power.de/Fahrzeuge/E30_350i_stelze/roberts_350_uebersicht.htm

I liked the old 6-series, but I'm almost 100% sure I'll never find one in my price range--if I did I'd get one of those. I'd prefer to go NA tune vs FI. But, I won't limit myself...just depends on the situation I guess.

Think again. The 1989 635CSi bluebooks at $6,475, and production began all the way back in 1976, which gives you plenty of 6er's that bluebook for even less. Of course, the relative rarity and desirability of the car means sellers often raise its price, but I still managed to find this on eBay.

It's cool that you want to go NA -- that's the BMW way. 👍

So does that mean you could theoretically bolt-in an RB25DE series or RB26DE series? Since you can bolt-in those engines into Silvias/180SX's. I would drool at the chance of using a GT-R Skyline motor.

I don't know how easy it would be, but I'm sure it would fit, as VIPERGTSR01 said.

Thanks a bunch for the info. Left some "rep". 👍

No problem. Thanks for the rep.

 

[Duke]

I hang out at www.bimmerforums.com and they have seperate boards for each series/chassis. Head over there and ask the experts.

 

[GT4_Rule]

So JCE3000GT you planning to buy a 3?

Oh and I did find a 635CSi here in local newspaper advertised for less than $8000 CDN. Thats cheap!

 

[JCE]

Think again. The 1989 635CSi bluebooks at $6,475, and production began all the way back in 1976, which gives you plenty of 6er's that bluebook for even less. Of course, the relative rarity and desirability of the car means sellers often raise its price, but I still managed to find this on eBay.

I really love the old 6-series, I'd get one in a HEARTBEAT if I ever got the chance. You can rest asured that I'd get one when I had the money ready for the 3-series--and I'd stuff a V12 in it if it would fit. Hell, if I somehow got the chance to get an 8-series I'd get one of those too...I still would prefer the 6-series. 👍

So JCE3000GT you planning to buy a 3?

Yea, since my RX-7 project is scrapped I got to thinking about something German--when I was doing some eBay Motors surfing when I saw a really nice 3-series all modified and though "hey I could do that". And BMW's I6's sound absolutely intoxicating modified.

 

[GT4_Rule]

The old 6 and 8 looked absolutely gorgeous!

There is a green 850CSi in my neighborhood but I dont see it anymore

 

[///M-Spec]

Wolfe has already answered your questions pretty well, but I would like to add these thoughts.

I should warn you now that a motor swap on a BMW can be a serious investment of time and money. It's not something you just walk into and expect everything to be a breeze. I strongly suggest you talk a shop/person that has experience with doing swaps before you get your heart set on this idea. They will give you a clear idea of how much time and money will be involved. I've read some nightmare stories about swaps going bad where after thousands of dollars the car doesn't start or runs badly. BUT I've also read about plenty of projects that have gone well and the owner ends up with a unique, well sorted, fast as snot car for less the cost of a newer BMW. Talk to someone that's done it before.

As for cars, your best bet is to pick an older BMW. I completely agree with Wolfe and suggest a '94-91 325. The E36 is a good solid car that has a lot of features you want from a modern BMW and you can buy them all day long for under $7k.

'94-'91s are good because there are simply less electronic issues to deal with on the earlier models. They are all OBD-I cars, so engine tuning is more open. There is no EWS on pre-95 cars so you won't have to deal with getting the engine ECU to talk to the rest of the car either. With something like a '97 328i, there are lot more electronic hoops you have to jump through to make everything work. Not saying it can't be done, cause it can, but there's more steps.

The most obvious donor for a motor is an E36 M3. The motor bolts right in with little or no modifications to the carrier. Most of the M3 suspension peices are direct bolt ins, as well as the diffy. As are all the interior peices like the seats and IP cluster. If your donor car is a '95 M3, it *should* be a straightforward swap.

If your donor car is a '96-99 M3, you will have to get someone to do a OBD-II to OBD-I backdate on it. The nice thing about this conversion is that it makes a 240 hp 3.2 US motor into something like a 275 hp motor after the conversion. While they've got the whole thing apart, you should consider (depending on your budget) Eurosport's cam kit (300+hp) or FI (350+hp).

This is the route I suggest. I don't see any reason to try to shoehorn a 4.0 liter V8 from the 540i, since it's easy to get silly amounts of power from an E36 3.2 these days with all the aftermarket power-adders out there. There are lots of M3 conversions on the road and the process is fairly well documented. Here's a link to my personal favorite Frankenbimmer.

http://www.bavarianfalcon.com/falconblog/the-evolution-of-the-bavarian-falcon/

It's a long read, but very informative and quite entertaining.


M

 

[neanderthal]

i was going to add something but theres nothing to add really. wolfe and M spec covered it all.

oh, i was going to say that there was a limited (south africa only) 333i using the "big block" six used on the 5, 6 and 7 series vs the smaller M20 used in the 3 series.

 

[Poverty]

The only bad thing about the Bimmas is that its gonna be really costly to get big power out of them. Theres a video of a 800hp E30 though and OMG that car is badass.

Every BMW looks the danglies in black too. Get a black one 👍

 

[Wolfe]

///M-Spec: About how expensive are S52's these days? I figured the price of the engine and the prices of the upgrades might be a bit steep to qualify for JCE3000GT's "cheap BHP" plan.

(BTW, JCE3000GT, the E36 M3's engine is called the S52, and the E46 M3's engine is called the S54.)

 

[JCE]

I should warn you now that a motor swap on a BMW can be a serious investment of time and money. It's not something you just walk into and expect everything to be a breeze. I strongly suggest you talk a shop/person that has experience with doing swaps before you get your heart set on this idea. They will give you a clear idea of how much time and money will be involved.

I'm looking for a longterm project and since I've done motor swaps and motor rebuilds before it should at least not turn into a full blown nightmare.

As for cars, your best bet is to pick an older BMW. I completely agree with Wolfe and suggest a '94-91 325. The E36 is a good solid car that has a lot of features you want from a modern BMW and you can buy them all day long for under $7k.

That's probably the model I'll get, especially since there are angel eye headlight conversions available.

'94-'91s are good because there are simply less electronic issues to deal with on the earlier models. They are all OBD-I cars, so engine tuning is more open. There is no EWS on pre-95 cars so you won't have to deal with getting the engine ECU to talk to the rest of the car either. With something like a '97 328i, there are lot more electronic hoops you have to jump through to make everything work. Not saying it can't be done, cause it can, but there's more steps.

I agree, the newer the car the more electronic headache. I did a swap involving a Ford 4.6L in a 5.0 foxbody and we had some *cough* issues involving the electrics. But we finally got it to work.

The most obvious donor for a motor is an E36 M3. The motor bolts right in with little or no modifications to the carrier. Most of the M3 suspension peices are direct bolt ins, as well as the diffy. As are all the interior peices like the seats and IP cluster. If your donor car is a '95 M3, it *should* be a straightforward swap.

An E36 M3 is definately the way to go I think, it would be the cheapest route probably.

If your donor car is a '96-99 M3, you will have to get someone to do a OBD-II to OBD-I backdate on it. The nice thing about this conversion is that it makes a 240 hp 3.2 US motor into something like a 275 hp motor after the conversion. While they've got the whole thing apart, you should consider (depending on your budget) Eurosport's cam kit (300+hp) or FI (350+hp).

Like we said earlier the newer the motor the more headache involved due to the "electrics". And not to mention the newer the motor the most it will cost just for the longblock.

This is the route I suggest. I don't see any reason to try to shoehorn a 4.0 liter V8 from the 540i, since it's easy to get silly amounts of power from an E36 3.2 these days with all the aftermarket power-adders out there. There are lots of M3 conversions on the road and the process is fairly well documented. Here's a link to my personal favorite Frankenbimmer.

Thanks for the link! As much as I would love to stuff any of the 5-series V8's or the 7-series V12's it would be cost effective for my FIRST BMW project.

M[/QUOTE]

///M-Spec: About how expensive are S52's these days? I figured the price of the engine and the prices of the upgrades might be a bit steep to qualify for JCE3000GT's "cheap BHP" plan.

(BTW, JCE3000GT, the E36 M3's engine is called the S52, and the E46 M3's engine is called the S54.)

Thanks for thoe engine codes. I'm sure somewhere there's an affordable M3 longblock--or something of that nature. 👍

 

[McLaren]

Great, I prefer coupe's anyway. Doesn't make sense to me to have a fully tuned sports car....with a BMW badge...with 4 doors...that isn't an M5.

Besides the fact that there are more tuned E36 M3 4-doors than there are M5s?

 

[GT4_Rule]

Besides the fact that there are more tuned E36 M3 4-doors than there are M5s?

Due to the sheer price of buying a M5, E36 is much cheaper.