A-Spec Points and New Starting Grids - Is there a quick fix?

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Hi All -

This is a very specific and somewhat complex problem, but sooner or later, it will impact anyone who cares about A-Spec points and race balance, so please bear with me...

When you are starting a new cup (series of races) with a given car, and enter the first race, the game tells you that given the car you are using versus those you are racing against, the race is worth between 1 and 200 A-Spec points. You will often find that you are in a series that is far too easy (e.g. - 9 A-Spec Points), or far too hard (200 A-Spec Points). I like my races to be fairly well balanced, with an A-Spec point rating between 90 and 140 points, both because I like a good challenge and would like to average over 100 per race throughout the game.

In this situation, you have to exit the cup, change cars or configurations, and try again in hopes of getting a more favorable A-Spec point rating (an annoying and time consuming process requiring you to go leave that race, leave the hall, enter another or the garage, agree to quit the cup you are in, confirm, save, select a new car or new configuration, and then try again - all in Japanese). You see the loading screen at least 4 times during this process. To make matters worse, the starting grid (the cars you are competing against) is random within a range, and will change, sometimes requiring three or four tries to get the desired outcome of 100+ A-Spec Points. This can take 10 or 15 minutes, if you count the time it takes to go to your garage and select a new car, or un/install upgrades on the car you are in.

So with that rather lengthy bit of background out of the way, on to my questions:

1.) Is there an easier way to do this? Am I missing an option to regenerate a starting grid to get one that suits you?

2.) If not, could somebody please suggest this fix to Sony for the upcoming US/European versions? (I know that someone here who has a contact at Sony)

All it would require is that you are told what your A-Spec Point value will be before you enter the cup - OR - a regenerate option that would create a new starting grid.

Simply put, this kills the fun factor pretty quickly. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks,

pmeegan


BTW - This is also a problem in individual races, but it is much less annoying to exit a single race and restart. There is also an issue that sometimes one of the cars in the starting grid of a single race or cup will blow the balance even though the A-Spec point level is not very different.

A good example: In the World Classic Car Cup in the professional hall, a Cobra 427 or Buick Special will destroy the balance of the races, making it impossible to win with anything less powerful. If they are not there, there are a handful of cars that will be competetive and possible to win with (e.g. - the Ginetta G4 or the old Skyline) making the races much more enjoyable.

Thanks again.


My progress?
Japanese Version
~18% complete
~8000 A-Spec Points
B -silvers and golds
A - silvers and golds
iB - bronze and up
iA - In progress

Most fun to drive: S2000 Type-v (modified a little or a lot)
 
Hey all -

After playing a bit more, and trying very hard to always reach 100++ A-Spec Points, I came to a few more realizations which are helpful...

1.) Go into an individual race before you enter a cup to test if your car is in the right A-Spec range. It saves time in entering and leaving championship cups.

2.) When you go into such a test, and your car is in the ballpark, try to have a few different upgrade options prepurchased for that car so that you can make minor power modifications (up or down) to dial it in to be exactly where you want it. Uninstalling a chip, or downsizing a turbo can drop the power enough to nail the desired point range.

3.) You can always add weight, though I consider this to be much less desireable option than reducing power as it also degrades handling and braking.

4.) If tire swaps are allowed, this can change the points dramatically.

5.) Nitrous does not seem to reduce points, but it sure as hell can decide a close race. Dial down the "shot" value to make sure it lasts for every key straight.

AND - another interesting discovery:

Certain races have specific entrance requirements that can make it hard to win and get high A-Spec points at the same time. A good example is the 500 HP requirement for Super Car Festival in the Professional Hall. Every time I went in with a "stock" super car with over 500 HP, I got fairly low A-Spec points, or had no chance of winning.

Looking for a way around this problem, I built up an Evo MR to over 550 HP and racing everything (except tires - S are required), then gained entrance to the series. Once in, I learned that the car was worth 20-60 points depending on the starting grid. No good. By downgrading the turbo or other bits, I reduced the HP to 468, but since I was already in the race it could not kick me out for having sub-500. The result was a 468 HP Evo that was worth 110-150 points depending on the race, and could still win - though in some cases just barely. (In fairness, I must point out that I am not lapping Nurburgring in 5:34, so driving skill is an issue, too.)

If there is anone else out ther who cares more about how you win then how quickly you win - I hope this is useful!

Any othr A-Spec point geeks out there?
 
Yes, I've been trying to get a good amount of points in A-Spec too and is really isn't easy to find out the points you're going to get for a race. It takes a day in the game and a race lost to enter a race just to see if you're going to get 10 points or 100 points.
They really should tell you what points you're going to get before you start the race, so that you can go and make some adjustments to your parts/performance and then see what you're going to get after those changes. Just like they say "Best A-Spec points" in the screen just before you race, they could also say there what points you'd get if you started this race now.

Also, wouldn't it be really handy if they had some sort of a table, listing all races and showing you what A & B Spec points you've won? And since they can save a jpeg to your memory card, how hard would it be to output a txt table like that?


Anyway, to answer your question, I don't think there is any quick fix. I don't know of any easier way than the one you've described (entering a single race not the series) to find out the points. One slight change to that might be to initially enter the race overpowered. Then when you try it, you might win only a few points, but you can then remove a part or something and do the race again for more points and that way you can end up with the desired amout of points after a couple of attempts. That doesn't work for a series though and it does mean doing races repeatedly.
 
Someone just need to compile a list of AI cars that you will encounter for each race. Since the AI don't usually mod their cars, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what car to use.
 
pmeegan
Looking for a way around this problem, I built up an Evo MR to over 550 HP and racing everything (except tires - S are required), then gained entrance to the series. Once in, I learned that the car was worth 20-60 points depending on the starting grid. No good. By downgrading the turbo or other bits, I reduced the HP to 468, but since I was already in the race it could not kick me out for having sub-500. The result was a 468 HP Evo that was worth 110-150 points depending on the race, and could still win - though in some cases just barely.

Just though I'd drop a line here... This description is a *real* bug. One that should not be in the game at this stage. (or the testers missed it, or the dev. team decided not to correct it/couldn't correct it without breaking something else).

Overall tho, i though there was a way to know how many points you'd win before the race starts... is there are isn't there a way?
 
Hey guys -

Thanks for the responses. Glad to know that there are others working on A-Spec point progression.

First - I agree - Some way of knowing your A-Spec points before the race would be ideal. But, the game is out and I doubt that Sony could/would change anything so major before the US/European releases.

The downside of this is that I am using up days rapidly (I am at 415 with 21% of the game done) because of all of the entering and exiting races, and it destroys your win ratio. Day 694 is coming and I will have no choice but to start racking up money for the CF prototypes.

So what we really need is a definitive list of each race, who the competition are, and what kind of HP and weight figures they are likely to have, and use that as a guideline for car selection. Using the data from the car databases (listed elsewhere) would be a good start.

More importantly, it would be great to have a list of all of the things that change A-Spec points, and some relative ranking indicating by how much.

For example:

Tires
Weight reduction 1,2,3
Power mods
etc.

Maybe I'll start working on that... (Something I am sure my wife will appreciate :indiff: )

If you have any more ideas on A-Spec tweaking, plese keep posting. Enjoy!!




Redoak: It is not so much a bug as a logic problem. I guess that the designers did not anticipate that people would meta-game the system, but as you and I both know, people always do...

I like to think of it as a non-destructive exploit. And anyway, PD can't complain that people exploit flaws in a game that is so imperfect (AI, A-Spec point ratings, etc..)
 
pmeegan
More importantly, it would be great to have a list of all of the things that change A-Spec points, and some relative ranking indicating by how much.

I would be willing to help with this project. I just finished the GT4 Car Quick Reference Guide. I coded the ability to filter as well as sort the table. Here are some screenshots of the new QRG:









What I could do is adapt the above format to fit the needs of this project. Using the drop-down select boxes to pick the desired Hall and Race. Then submit to display a table of eligible cars and how many A-Spec points they would potentially earn.

Since I do not have the game yet (I'm in the US), I would need someone to feed me the raw data. Whenever the game is released here, I will definitely work on deciphering the formulas behind the A-Spec points.
 
tell us, when you'll finish it, i would really like to have it
 
Sorry, perhaps a bit OT, but aside from reflecting on your record, what else do A-Spec points give you?
 
for braging and nothing else. if you have more a spec points you probobly drove more races yourself.
 
I thought they were linked to which trax opened up for you in arcade mode?

or is that down to how many days you have been playing?

either way, if they are just for bragging rights, then whats wrong with showing how fewer days you have been racing, yet how many thousands of points you have accumulated?
I think this would be an excellent way of displaying your prowess.
 
if I remember right, you unlock tracks in arcade mode with driving and unlocking tracks in GT mode.

What+s wrong with that you say? Well if someone completes game in (just an example) 300 days and gets 3000 A-Spec points that is not as good as to complete the game in 300 days and get 6000 A-Spec points. It can serve as an aditional bragging component ;)
 
Here's a question...

I've read that the tracks unlock from Days passed...

Can you race (In a series or cup in GT mode) on a locked track before the days reach the correct time or do these races remain locked also until the track is actually unlocked?

Do you understand what I mean?

C.
 
you can also get 200pts in b spec, right?

so, what makes it such a challenge then? i mean, getting 200pts in a-spec is probably a way more difficult
 
Yeah, I guess Vipersan's point that they are worth only "bragging rights" is technically correct, though maybe a bit cynical. (Sorry Vipersan if I am misinterpreting.)

The way I look at it is that GT4's AI is a bit weak. The best way to measure the challenge of your races is A-Spec points, and usually, a 170+ point race requries some finesse to win. 200 only more so.

If all you care about is getting through the game - then by all means drive the F1 Car through Sunday Cup. You will win, and if it is fun for you - enjoy.

But, if you want a real challenge, the best way to get it is to drive a car that is weak enough (compared to the competition), that the miserable AI is a threat, and it is your driving skill that makes the difference. Isn't it more fun to pass the lead car on the straight leading up to the finish on the last lap? And only then because you nailed the corner and drafted him just right? In a car that isn't quite as powerful?

It's the same reason that you have a handicap in golf, or you give a kid a head start in a foot race - it is more fun and more sportsman-like. (Though, of course, it is considered good form to still let the kid win most of the time, unlike GT4.)

And, going back to Vipersan - the first person to max A-Spec, will indeed have some bragging rights.

But that's just my .02
 
How is the actual base value of A-Spec points caluclated if you don't know who you're up against? One time you could enter a race with a car that has 300bhp and get 20 points, but if you enter the race with the same car later on, you might get 25. Shouldn't the base value (0 points) be listed when you go through the race seletion screen to make it easier to find a suitable car? Surely PD would have thought to incorporate this because exiting a race before you actually compete counts as a race that has not been won and so your average rank and win ratio will come down. And if this Base Value doesn't exist, hopefully it will be fixed for the PAL version.
 
Hi guys,

going to deviate abit from the topic. Just like to ask if anyone is able to use their own garage cars in arcade mode? I have the chinese version and during arcade mode, given 3 tabs to choose from, i always can't get the last tab (literally means fave cars) to work. So what is that about?

I would be happy if someone can enlightened me on that. Thanks alot.

Regards.
 
Pdreams
Hi guys,

going to deviate abit from the topic. Just like to ask if anyone is able to use their own garage cars in arcade mode? I have the chinese version and during arcade mode, given 3 tabs to choose from, i always can't get the last tab (literally means fave cars) to work. So what is that about?

I would be happy if someone can enlightened me on that. Thanks alot.

Regards.
There's another thrad on this already. The current theory is that you can't use your own cars because A) every car can be unlocked in Arcade and B) it's to stop you from test-driving your cars for free. Or something like that. Here's the link: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53996

Remember everyone, just because a thread isn't on Page 1 it doesn't mean that thread is no longer active! And searching works wonders as well ...
 
Do you race?
There's another thrad on this already. The current theory is that you can't use your own cars because A) every car can be unlocked in Arcade and B) it's to stop you from test-driving your cars for free. Or something like that. Here's the link: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53996

Remember everyone, just because a thread isn't on Page 1 it doesn't mean that thread is no longer active! And searching works wonders as well ...

Hi, thanks alot. Really appreciated. I had spent some time searching but I guess I just did not come up with the right words.

I had also tried to start another thread but realise that it needed approval from the moderators. My topic was that I was wondering if anyone had a Spoon Civic that rev to 16000rpm? GT3 allowed that but GT4 does not, or maybe I am not doing something right. The needle stops at 12K when in fact the rev counter reaches 18000rpm.

Sorry if it seems that I am working the shortcut but where a search does not work and that the thread is not present, where should I be posting? The most relevant thread? Thanks again.
 
pmeegan
Yeah, I guess Vipersan's point that they are worth only "bragging rights" is technically correct, though maybe a bit cynical. (Sorry Vipersan if I am misinterpreting.)

Not at all. Yes, perhaps it did sound a bit cynical. No offense taken ;).

Must add this though, I've read on this forum, that there have been some trouble reagarding these points. If you enter a race and get offered (example) 120 points, you can expect not easy race, but when you drive, it is very easy. And then people entered another race and were offered (for example) 70 points and were expecting easier race, but it was indeed much harder than previous, 120pts race. I had that in mind when writing the forst post.

But bottom line remains - points (sadly) don't unlock something special, but only serve to show how steep progress route through the game you took.

And another thing, from what I've read so far, I believe it is easier to win a 200pts race in A-spec than in B-spec, because in A-spec it's still your driving and you decide and push the car to the limit. In B-spec it's still AI, which (to be honest) is still not what we hoped for. Off course as long as you don't do a lot mistakes.
 
Pdreams
I had also tried to start another thread but realise that it needed approval from the moderators. My topic was that I was wondering if anyone had a Spoon Civic that rev to 16000rpm? GT3 allowed that but GT4 does not, or maybe I am not doing something right. The needle stops at 12K when in fact the rev counter reaches 18000rpm.
I'd say it wasn't approved because it's too specific. A thread like that would only get a few posts in reply before your question was fully answered and would therefore just fill up space. I personally don't know the answer, but I suggest you ask in usernamed's "Answers to all your GT4 Questions" thread (that title is paraphrased, so don't search the quote) as you'll get an answer much faster.

Now, can anyone answer my question?
How is the actual base value of A-Spec points caluclated if you don't know who you're up against? One time you could enter a race with a car that has 300bhp and get 20 points, but if you enter the race with the same car later on, you might get 25. Shouldn't the base value (0 points) be listed when you go through the race seletion screen to make it easier to find a suitable car? Surely PD would have thought to incorporate this because exiting a race before you actually compete counts as a race that has not been won and so your average rank and win ratio will come down. And if this Base Value doesn't exist, hopefully it will be fixed for the PAL version.
Because the answer may help us solve the overall point of this thread. Or not. It would still be interesting (and helpful) to know ...
 
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