A Trip In the Hot Tub Time Machine: Time Paradox Creates New ST204, New Convertible

[YSSMAN]

GONNA GO BACK IN TIIIIME! Well, to 1998 Anyway. Look! A Semi-Legitimate Toyota Sports Coupe is Back (As a Scion)!

I'm pleasantly surprised by this. The bump in power is adequate to make the car competitive once again, and assuming that the wider track, tires, and chassis retune makes it handle like nobody else... This could be a pretty surprising little machine. The tweak to the back to add space actually looks nice too (check the photos from the link). Frankly, its like they took my car, said "Hey, how can we make this again? But make it better?" and then they came up with this.

Sweet. Congratulations Toyota, you've made me actually consider buying one of your brand-new cars again.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'll wait for the FT-86, thank you...which has the potential to be not only lighter, but more powerful.

 

[Philly]

They still sell those? We'll see if it's as popular with high schoolers as the old one was back in the day.

 

[JCE]

Do not want. Heavy for a car its size (2,900lbs!!!), not particularly good looking and worst yet a Toyota product which doesn't merit high marks right now for anything. Boring too. Looks like an xB squished and with that flat roofline it looks like it was stepped on by Paul Bunyan.

Look at this god awful C pillar blindspot:

And this awful interior:

If this had 200~220bhp I'd be I'd be satisfied...but come on 2.5L of displacement and they could only manage 180bhp? Really? In 2010? Toyota's small coupe is not back. This should have a 1.6L I4 with a turbo then we'd have them back to something fun. Keep your old Celicas ladies and gents this is worthless.

Approval rating: 20%

 

[Eric.]

Wow, that interior does look bad.

Outside, I kinda like it. And 2900lbs is about right. Its what the Civic Si's weigh. And being Toyota, its not exactly expected to have the best performance specs. It might make a good drag race against an Si, having all of that torque.

 

[Joey D]

Wow that interior looks like it's out of a Chrysler, and that's not a good thing.

The back of the car looks awkward too.

 

[CDailey]

That interior is horrible. At least the floor mats are well away from the pedals...

 

[Jondot]

Is it me, or does it look like it's been... sat on? There's something very wrong with that roof...

 

[Omnis]

The interior isn't so bad. It's a toyota. Exterior is awful.

 

[niky]

I'll hold off commenting on plastic quality, because flashbulbs always make surface textures look worse...

But that is one of the ugliest, most uninspired interior designs I've ever seen outside of a Chrysler... and then some. Even Korean interiors at least pay attention to design... except for the (video-game) steering wheel, the rest of the interior looks like it could have come off of one of Toyota's commercial trucks!

Exterior extremely meh. Chop off headroom to make it look awkward? Why?

 

[Philly]

Roommate says: "Doesn't seem too bad...."

I like the steering wheel at least. Reminds me of my car. And that exterior is lacking in the looks department methinks. As for the interior, the car is aimed at younger folks, so they can probably get away with a horrid interior in terms of materials as long as it's 'cool.' We'll see how well that gets executed.

 

[Jondot]

Quick question, do young'uns actually buy Scions in the end? It's just that here, whenever an automaker tries to appeal to a young audience it almost always fails massively. As an example, Renault would like to think that most of their Clios (and now Twingos) go to 18 year old girls. Which is absolutely true, except that they're almost always the second owner - right after a 65 year old woman.

I don't think I've seen an iQ driven by someone 'yoof'-ful. No matter how much Toyota pummel T4 with sponsorship. And I certainly haven't seen the Urban Cruiser (Scion xD to y'all) driven by anyone under 40. Although Toyota seem to be marketing that as a sort of £15,000 dog basket, so I'm beginning to doubt whether I've actually seen any full stop.

 

[JCE]

I see a lot of young people around here driving Scions. Granted most of those are mommy and daddy buying them FOR the young under 21 year olds. Still, the young to old ratio is easily 5:1 around here.

 

[YSSMAN]

And 2900lbs is about right. Its what the Civic Si's weigh.

Only a couple of sandbags more than what my ST204 weighs, despite this car being significantly larger. The added power is a nice touch, and personally I'm sold on the added room in the back. I really don't mind the way the roof ends up looking, especially if that means that I can fit my friends in the back in relative comfort.

The interior is terrible though, I do agree with that. I don't know what it is about modern Toyotas, but outside of the Venza, they've totally lost it in terms of look and feel. I have no idea how you would describe the soft touch plastics they used back in the mid-late '90s, but it is thousands of times better than whatever this madness is that they have now.

If the car performs, I'd be willing to forgive. Especially if the price is right.

 

[Eric.]

Of all of the tC's in my town, every one is driven by a girl who is less than ~24 years old. About half of them being seventeen.

 

[McLaren]

I see a lot of young people around here driving Scions. Granted most of those are mommy and daddy buying them FOR the young under 21 year olds. Still, the young to old ratio is easily 5:1 around here.

Not to mention, they don't realize that they don't have the power to actually become a threat to anyone. I swear, I've had 2-3 try to run me.

 

[Jim Prower]

Only a couple of sandbags more than what my ST204 weighs, despite this car being significantly larger. The added power is a nice touch, and personally I'm sold on the added room in the back. I really don't mind the way the roof ends up looking, especially if that means that I can fit my friends in the back in relative comfort.

The interior is terrible though, I do agree with that. I don't know what it is about modern Toyotas, but outside of the Venza, they've totally lost it in terms of look and feel. I have no idea how you would describe the soft touch plastics they used back in the mid-late '90s, but it is thousands of times better than whatever this madness is that they have now.

If the car performs, I'd be willing to forgive. Especially if the price is right.

The issue becomes this...

This exists. And it IS coming. Should be lighter, perhaps with a bit more power, and definitely with the other end of the car being driven. It may cost a little more, but will stomp on this new tC's toes until they're pounded into dust, then drive away flipping the other car off.

It's simply a matter of two cars being marketed uncomfortably close together...the better will win. Especially considering they'll be sold on the same lot. (I can't think of an independent Scion dealership anywhere.)

 

[Azuremen]

This exists. And it IS coming. Should be lighter, perhaps with a bit more power, and definitely with the other end of the car being driven. It may cost a little more, but will stomp on this new tC's toes until they're pounded into dust, then drive away flipping the other car off.
It's simply a matter of two cars being marketed uncomfortably close together...the better will win. Especially considering they'll be sold on the same lot. (I can't think of an independent Scion dealership anywhere.)

RWD has trouble selling in states with snow, because a lot of people think it does terrible in it. I can easily see the tC out selling it, most people will want the cheaper, FWD car. Only actual enthusiasts will care about the better performing RWD car.

As for this tC, it weighs less than a lot of other compacts on the market right now. Power boost will be nice, but I wish they'd do it something a bit more free revving.

 

[JCE]

Not to mention, they don't realize that they don't have the power to actually become a threat to anyone. I swear, I've had 2-3 try to run me.

I've had 2 try and run me on my SVT only to get smashed without me even trying.

 

[Jim Prower]

RWD has trouble selling in states with snow, because a lot of people think it does terrible in it. I can easily see the tC out selling it, most people will want the cheaper, FWD car. Only actual enthusiasts will care about the better performing RWD car.

As for this tC, it weighs less than a lot of other compacts on the market right now. Power boost will be nice, but I wish they'd do it something a bit more free revving.

Maybe. The tC's almost invisible, though, as a sports coupe, and it supposedly caters to enthusiasts anyway, something the FT86 aims to do as well. and then there's the supposed Subaru variation, which might have four wheel drive.

In all reason, I expected the FT-86 to take the tC's place. Something like Genesis-Tiburon. Right now it seems they'll be sold side-by-side, which has me scratching my head. Going after the same market (inexpensive performance coupe) with two entirely different cars that don't share much more than the bolt patterns on the wheels.

It may be a case of less-versed young people buying the tC and those who know buying the FT-86. In which case the plan would work perfectly. But if these young people see the FT and decide to get that instead...

 

[CodeRedR51]

So why exactly did the tC never come with the 2ZZ 1.8? That seriously would have been a much better motor.

 

[Azuremen]

So why exactly did the tC never come with the 2ZZ 1.8? That seriously would have been a much better motor.

Not really, considering with the 2.4L and its extra weight, it was still faster than the 2ZZ powered Celica.

Jim, the tC sells around here. Popular with sorority girls and semi-clueless guys. Plus some random older people. I see quite a few tC's, so I have a feeling they'll still sell, regardless of the FT-86 stuff.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Well, I think it's a better motor. But I'm part of the few people that think all these 2.5 liter 4-cylinders are stupid. The 2ZZ would be more fun anyway.

 

[Jim Prower]

They just need to make a "Magic" wide-angle Yamaha-derived Twin-Cam head for it.

 

[YSSMAN]

In all reason, I expected the FT-86 to take the tC's place. Something like Genesis-Tiburon. Right now it seems they'll be sold side-by-side, which has me scratching my head. Going after the same market (inexpensive performance coupe) with two entirely different cars that don't share much more than the bolt patterns on the wheels.

While I totally agree that the FT-86 entirely negates the need for the tC, ultimately the tC serves to be, as Azure has pointed out, the car for everyone else. Chances are that the changes made to the rear of the car (more room, etc) were made specifically to cover the bottom end of the FT-86, assuming of course that the car is smaller (God I hope so). Hyundai sold both the Tiburon and the Genesis together for a bit, it'll work.

 

[Lancia stratos]

God I really hope they are not gonna sell a car with the interior looking like its from the 80's. They should really consider re-designing the inside of it first. Overall, the exterior looks amazing. I would drive off in it only if the interior didn't look like that.

 

[Keef]

They've managed to make it even uglier than the current one, and it looks enormous to boot. How much heavier is it than the old one? Hopefully it doesn't handle like a guinea pig like the current one. It sure looks like one this time around so I'm not too hopeful.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I was recently at a Toyota dealer and the tC interior looked pretty damn good. What did they do...

 

[YSSMAN]

How much heavier is it than the old one?

If the 2800-ish figure that was tossed around on the last page is correct, this bugger is actually lighter than the previous, which tips the scales at 2905 lbs. Give or take, about what the ST204 weighed. Waaaay more than the ST230.

We'll have to see how the handling improvements work out.

 

[eSZee]

I'll wait for the FT-86, thank you...which has the potential to be not only lighter, but more powerful.

? Because this car is somehow supposed to be comparable to the FT-86?