ABS on road cars

[TopGearFan08]

Now that ABS can be completely disabled, I was wondering if people were turning it off for all cars or only on cars that don't have it in reality?

IMO it is unrealistic to drive a car such as the Audi TT or most of the road cars infact without ABS set to 1 because they can't be disabled in real life.

The cars I turn ABS off for are all the tuned and race spec cars along with the odd road car that doesnt have ABS such as the TVR and older cars such as the F40 which AFAIK did not come with ABS (although I could be wrong).

So discuss, is it considered noobish to use ABS at all, or only on cars that dont have it IRL?

 

[KarlG]

I Turn ABS off if i want a challenge. If i'm online i turn it on as other people have theirs on.
As for Road cars i'm pretty sure you can buy the majority With/ Without ABS. So it dont matter to me.

 

[Rocket Punch]

The bottoline is to have fun. So use whatever setting you like.

Personally I don't use any assist, as only then I can feel the raw limit and the ture handling of the car that is not being watered down by e-nannys.

 

[Kryz11]

I'm still wating for US version. Can anyone quickly compare ABS off with games like GTR2 or rFactor?

 

[nissan tuner]

IMO it is unrealistic to drive a car such as the Audi TT or most of the road cars infact without ABS set to 1 because they can't be disabled in real life

you can disable/remove ABS off of any car in real life so how is that unrealistic?

 

[Kryz11]

you can disable/remove ABS off of any car in real life so how is that unrealistic?

I think what he means is that When you buy a car and not to modify it in any way. Unless there is a button for TCS or ABS on dashboard of the car.

 

[nissan tuner]

I think what he means is that When you buy a car and not to modify it in any way. Unless there is a button for TCS or ABS on dashboard of the car.

the button is called "unplugging the ABS fusebox"

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59696

 

[Kryz11]

the button is called "unplugging the ABS fusebox"

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59696

Yeah but still LOL
I will still keep my OFF on every race and test drives.

 

[nissan tuner]

i just dont know where people are getting this nonsense from. if you disable ABS on a car from this decade in GT5, its unrealistic?

 

[Jay]

You are modifying the car, removing fuses is modifying, it is not a standard feature and was never designed for that out of the factory. Infact in most cases the ECU will throw a error code and often other standard functions are also disabled. Fusible link is not a switch.

I like driving standard cars, I hardly even use QTS. If you want to remove ABS on cars that have it in real life (and can't remove without modifying) fine thats your choice.

i just dont know where people are getting this nonsense from. if you disable ABS on a car from this decade in GT5, its unrealistic?

In that case I could put a rocket engine on my roof in real life, why does KY not add that feature in GT5!

 

[GT]

well..., if I had a TT, and I wanted to go to a track. I might just go to the dealer and ask them to disable the abs in a correct manner. I'm sure dealers would do this (cost money though).

Because without ABS one can drive faster and smoother.

 

[Jay]

well..., if I had a TT, and I wanted to go to a track. I might just go to the dealer and ask them to disable the abs in a correct manner. I'm sure dealers would do this (cost money though).

No I don't think so, dealers are not going to just remove a saftey item because you asked, not to mention they wouldn't know how to, especially without voiding warrentys. Dealers and manufacturers don't want to get sued.

Because without ABS one can drive faster and smoother.

This is not entirely true, Sure in good conditions in a straight line and sound brakes a skilled driver can threshold brake more effectively than the ABS can but...
You as a driver controls the whole braking system (four brakes) with one single pedal, a smart ABS system can control each wheel individually. This usually results in the driver being able to trail in longer, more stable and brake more efficiently in odd conditions (bumps, wet patches etc)

 

[GT]

No I don't think so, dealers are not going to just remove a saftey item because you asked, not to mention they wouldn't know how to, especially without voiding warrentys. Dealers and manufacturers don't want to get sued.

Well, I went to the Ring with my Lantis and kindly asked the manufacturer (mazda) to remove for a week. They did it without nay problems, sure it cost me a little money but since I wanted to give it a go without ABS it was well worth it! So it can be done.


This is not entirely true, Sure in good conditions in a straight line and sound brakes a skilled driver can threshold brake more effectively than the ABS can but...
You as a driver controls the whole braking system (four brakes) with one single pedal, a smart ABS system can control each wheel individually. This usually results in the driver being able to trail in longer, more stable and brake more efficiently in odd conditions (bumps, wet patches etc)

hmmm, when driving without ABS you don't always have to brake in a straight line you know But then again I realize the benefits of ABS, it's just that I believe that it does to some extent prohibit your maximum braking ability, with or without a smart ABS system.

Seriously, I do not presume to know all, but can we make a list of racing classes where they actually use ABS? I'm really curious? F1 does not use it, that I know. Howabout WRC cars? I also know that ABS is prohibited in the DTM series and also in the JGTC series.

So therefore I conclude that no ABS is what will hopefully result in a better control of the vehicle.

 

[Jay]

hmmm, when driving without ABS you don't always have to brake in a straight line you know

Of course not, but when any paticular tyre starts to skid (like the front inside while trailing in) the ABS can control that individual tyre while all the driver can do (without ABS) is ignore it or ease the whole braking system some more.

I do drive IRL with both ABS and non ABS cars, I know how they differ. I'm just pointing out it is not straight cut that non-ABS is faster, there is many many variables. In some case it's faster, in some cases it's not.

Seriously, I do not presume to know all, but can we make a list of racing classes where they actually use ABS? I'm really curious? F1 does not use it, that I know.

F1 only just banned it this year, not because it was any slower, just to take some of the electronic aids away from drivers, like many other motorsports. I don't follow all the other motorsports personally to know what all do so I can't really comment too much. But much of it is to keep the driver using his skill rather than the electronics which is why most of that stuff is banned or not used.

That is also the reason I understand the people that want to turn off ABS on all cars, I also like driving without ABS, but if the car has it (cant be removed without a mod, that includes fuse removal) then I will leave it on.

 

[GT]

F1 only just banned it this year, not because it was any slower, just to take some of the electronic aids away from drivers, like many other motorsports. I don't follow all the other motorsports personally to know what all do so I can't really comment too much. But much of it is to keep the driver using his skill rather than the electronics which is why most of that stuff is banned or not used.

This is not correct, F1 banned it in I believe 2002. This year they banned TCS and Engine braking systems.

True, and yes it is prohibited in all these different racing styles because they want driver skill but that is closely connected to the driver's ability which in turn is increased because he must perform all actions himself, including braking witj the right amount of pressure. As I said before, although you have smart ABS systems, a skilled driver (in GT5 or real life) should potentially be able to go faster. But again, I do get what you're saying

 

[Jay]

This is not correct, F1 banned it in I believe 2002. This year they banned TCS and Engine braking systems.

Ah, I remember something about braking, assumed it was a form of anti lock, my bad.

a skilled driver (in GT5 or real life) should potentially be able to go faster. But again, I do get what you're saying

Potentially I agree.

 

[Scaff]

I Turn ABS off if i want a challenge. If i'm online i turn it on as other people have theirs on.
As for Road cars i'm pretty sure you can buy the majority With/ Without ABS. So it dont matter to me.

It has been a legal requirement in Europe for a few years now that every volume production car must be fitted with ABS. Its the reason why the Elise now has ABS fitted. Just about the only exceptions are very, very low production run cars, most of which in the UK are not classed as production cars and are subject to SVA tests.

You are modifying the car, removing fuses is modifying, it is not a standard feature and was never designed for that out of the factory. Infact in most cases the ECU will throw a error code and often other standard functions are also disabled. Fusible link is not a switch.

I like driving standard cars, I hardly even use QTS. If you want to remove ABS on cars that have it in real life (and can't remove without modifying) fine that's your choice.

In that case I could put a rocket engine on my roof in real life, why does KY not add that feature in GT5!

Of come on we are talking about very different things here. Yes we could argue that disabling ABS is modifying the car away from standard, but the strapping a rocket to the room as a comparison???

Pulling the fuse and disabling the ABS system is reasonably common practice at track days and very, very common at Autocross, hillclimb and sprint events. To the best of my knowledge straping a rocket to the room is not common in any of these.

ABS systems were never designed to allow shorter stopping distances, they are designed to allow a car to be steered when braking (and don't even do this in all situations snow, gravel and ice being good examples). Many passenger car ABS systems are designed to cut in very early as well (as active vehicle safety is the core design brief, not lap time), and as a result a reasonably well trained driver can make better use of the brakes and tyres.

This is not correct, F1 banned it in I believe 2002. This year they banned TCS and Engine braking systems.

Slight correct here, the engine braking system banned this year was not (and its how your post reads) a system to use engine braking, rather it was a system designed specifically to reduce the effects of engine braking. Engine or compression braking on the track = bad news; locked tyres and a loss of control are very often the result of its use. The ban on the system was designed to again stop the drivers using electronic aids and the will now have to minimise the effects and control the results of any engine braking the come across.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Jay]

Of come on we are talking about very different things here. Yes we could argue that disabling ABS is modifying the car away from standard, but the strapping a rocket to the room as a comparison???

Of course, I was completely exaggerating, I knew I should have used a smiley. I didn't mean that as a serious comparison.

Pulling the fuse and disabling the ABS system is reasonably common practice at track days and very, very common at Autocross, hillclimb and sprint events. To the best of my knowledge straping a rocket to the room is not common in any of these.

Some cars depending on make and model are easier than others, if thats what players want to simulate in GT5P than that fine. I choose not to.

Never mind the exaggerated rocket thing.

ABS systems were never designed to allow shorter stopping distances

Never said it was.

Many passenger car ABS systems are designed to cut in very early as well (as active vehicle safety is the core design brief, not lap time), and as a result a reasonably well trained driver can make better use of the brakes and tyres.

Exactly, but I doubt PD would model which cars have harsh ABS and which do not. So it's set on '1' I guess. I personally just leave it at that for cars with ABS out of the factory.

 

[magburner]

Exactly, but I doubt PD would model which cars have harsh ABS and which do not. So it's set on '1' I guess. I personally just leave it at that for cars with ABS out of the factory.

Why wouldn't they? After all, Gran Truismo IS the 'Real Driving Simulator'.

 

[Jay]

Why wouldn't they? After all, Gran Truismo IS the 'Real Driving Simulator'.

Well it would be nice if they do, but for now I personally do not expect it.

 

[Rocket Punch]

....ABS systems were never designed to allow shorter stopping distances, they are designed to allow a car to be steered when braking (and don't even do this in all situations snow, gravel and ice being good examples). Many passenger car ABS systems are designed to cut in very early as well (as active vehicle safety is the core design brief, not lap time), and as a result a reasonably well trained driver can make better use of the brakes and tyres......

You tell them Scaff!

The sad thing is most people think/assume they are invincible because "my car got ABS and ABS makes you stop faster" (the same goes for Awd........"I am invincible cause I have AWD")

I remember when I was a kid I need to take a bus and go to the library to read books about cars, and in the age of Google there is simply NO excuse not to know this stuff.

The thing about ABS cutting early really varies from car to car and it had everything to do how much available traction you have. I've been doing track days at Watkins with my SRT-4 and not once was the ABS being activated and using some POS tires with stock width (205/17).

 

[kikie]

edit

 

[Tired Tyres]

Go on the manufacturer's website and look up the specification?

 

[sesselpupser]

My old car didn't have ABS, which resulted in a number of brown trousers moments, all of which were a result of the road being wet and my asking too much of my tyres and brakes. Needless to say when searching for a new car, ABS was a must, it's all well and good saying 'real drivers don't use ABS' but until i've gone on an advanced driver's course, i'm not a real driver, and i'd suggest that many other people in this country aren't either; knowing the theory of what to do when all your brakes lock up is different to actually doing what you should do when all your brakes lock up in the wet when you're heading towards an armco at 50mph! Ironically, my old car was written off by a white van man driving into the back of me because he was going too fast to stop, in the wet...

But back on topic, I set ABS to 1 because I use the sixaxis controller, and brake/throttle modulation with that isn't easy. If i had a steering wheel i'd probably not use ABS at all; I might try remapping the pedals to the triggers instead of X and square as when I played my friend's copy of forza 2 I drove without any aids with the triggers quite well. In the end the lack of realism in that department doesn't really bother me.

One last thing, I seem to remember reading that FIA GT3 race cars are allowed ABS, but i'm not entirely sure about that. I'd be surprised if GT2 were allowed it and i'm almost certain GT1 doesn't have it.

edit:
http://www.reiter-engineering.com/technische-daten-gallardo-gt3.php

this car fits the FIA GT3 rules, and has a race ABS system.

 

[Mervin]

Is there any way to adjust the sensitivity of the pedals, or the wheel for that matter, on the G25? With the ABS off, the brake pedal is way to touchy. I like the feel of the thresh-hold breaking (it's done quite well for a video game) I just wish it required a little more pressure on the pedal. It seems as if all the braking is within the first 10% of the pedal travel.

Thanks in advance