ABS, TCS backwards

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surge9000

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surge9000
I can't help but notice the large amount of online races with ABS enabled and TCS disabled. This is exactly the opposite ruling of all major racing organizations I know of.
Who can tell me where this misnomer sprang from, and why is it propagated? I use a wheel and pedals, but perhaps it's something to do with the hand controller?

Signed:
Bored of clowns joining my lobby and then rage-quitting because ABS is disabled.
 
Literally no idea - I personally run allowed TCS and ABS with all other aids disabled while personally using no aids whatsoever so I can't speak for such people.

I'd imagine it stems from no ABS being much more difficult to manage with a controller, at least with the default X and Square layout.
 
More than 90% GT5 drivers uses at least ABS assist, there are many reasons as to why they are depend on it and won't let go. Input method seems to play a hand too, but it really depend on the person. I am using stick, yet I have no issue with no ABS, in fact I drive with high BB as well. DS2 stick is the key ( I use circle for gas and triangle for brake ), DS3 face button won't cut it.

You should just enable ABS if you want more people to stay in your lobby. I often open no ABS practice comfort tires lobby, most of the time only have 2 or 3 drivers around, but they always drive well and clean.
 
I manage just fine with zero driving assists on a controller. Yes, I'm using L2 and R2 for brake/gas. I believe that is one of the best ways to control your car's speed on a DualShock 3. The other being the Right Analog Stick.
 
I use L2 for brake and I can race without abs it's just that you really have no idea when the brakes are about to lock up. Also the sensivity of the trigger is messed up, you have to push it quite a way until it even responds and then the brakes are fully on way before you fully push the trigger. So the "area of response" (I have no idea what it's really called) is very small. Like I said, it is possible, it just takes some practice and most people don't want to take the time to learn how to do it.

I hope that made sense.
 
Tips : Having face buttons for gas and brake allows the driver to use left foot braking technique - assign 2nd brake button on L2 shoulder button. This way you can brake with either triangle or square like usual or left foot brake with L2 while still applying gas with cross or circle. This will be hard to implement on DS3, but with DS2 + USB adapter - you can see the result from sig video links.

DS2 face buttons requires 3 times more pressure than DS3 face buttons to reach 100% input - fact :D Throttle control and brake modulation are great on DS2 face buttons, I can dial accurate throttle and brake input easily.

Always suggest lobby member to adjust their BB for no ABS before heading out to the track, usually if their BB is sorted out, they will try to drive some more.
 
UrieHusky
Literally no idea - I personally run allowed TCS and ABS with all other aids disabled while personally using no aids whatsoever so I can't speak for such people.

I'd imagine it stems from no ABS being much more difficult to manage with a controller, at least with the default X and Square layout.
Click to expand...

Yeah that usually is what it is. I personally don't have any issues running without ABS and never run with TCS to begin with. I haven't run TCS since GT3 a little before I started drifting. And while most people struggle with the X and Square layout I can use it without problems because its all I've ever used.

Its possible to run without any assists on the default set up, but it just takes time and practice like alot of things. Well..... practice and a VERY light thumb. lol :D
 
In my case, I've got a G27 and I drove always with ABS=0 before I started playing on line. Then I guess I had no other choice than to use ABS=1 because all the lobbies allow ABS and there's always some advantage in most of the tracks in using ABS, and in a close race that can mean win or lose.

Besides, when you get used to using ABS with the G27 it's quite hard coming back to ABS=0, because the ridiculously high sensitivity of the brake pedal, which cannot be adjusted, so I guess I'm stuck with ABS at least for the time being.
 
Lack of Traction Control is horrendously dangerous in the real world, so I allow it with enthusiasm. ABS... I think I'll keep it off, it does seem to be a good 'filter' for decent drivers.
Strangely, many bad ones don't seem to notice until i start the race, which means the participant count drops by about 1/2 after the 1st lap. Annoying, but what are you gonna do, eh?

But thanks for the responses about this - buttons for accelerator/brake? I didn't know that. Ouch! And I've played GTA4 with the hand controller which uses L/R 2... I don't know what sony did with those supposed 'analog' controls, but they really messed that up for sure. Might as well be buttons.
 
Actually, regarding racing series, it's quite the opposite... many series ban traction control and ABS.

A lack of traction control on track is not really that dangerous if you don't treat the throttle as an on-off switch.

ABS is trickier. If the brake balance is okay, a lack of ABS is not that dangerous. If the rear bias is too high, though, having no ABS can lead to some nasty spins.
 
http://www.europeanlemansseries.com...n/technical_regulations_lmp_2012-06.12.11.pdf

for one disagrees. I'm too lazy to look up indycar rules as well, but they are similar, and whilst there's alot of hysteria in Formula1, there's no evidence to suggest the regulated, McLaren supplied ECU does *not* provide traction control. In fact, there is evidence to the opposite: when was the last time you saw wheel spin in F1? As opposed to brake lockup?
 
Every time it's wet. Traction Control is banned in F1, but that doesn't preclude teams from using different engine maps to maximize traction by dialing back torque. (And let's not bring up a certain Red Bull pic, as there's a thread discussing that already...)

Traction control is banned in F1, NASCAR, WRC, V8 Supercars and almost all professional Touring Car series. It's also banned in Indycars.

Le Mans allows it because they're racing at very high speeds on a bumpy track in the dark, in the rain and in big groups. But they specify it must be engine-side only... This is done for the same reason other series ban it outright, having traction control operated at the drive wheels (by use of brakes, for example) allows the electronics to actively steer the car. Rumor has it that some F1 teams and Indycar teams have built cars in the past that could basically drive themselves. Keep your foot planted on the gas and steer around the track, the TCS and ABS would do all the braking and throttle-feathering for you.

Again, most series don't allow any sort of aids. Some did, then banned them. This is to prevent cheating, and it makes those races a pretty good spectacle.

Not that you have to do strict TCS/ABS off rooms. It's a personal choice. I enjoy racing both with and without.
 
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F1 does not ban outright traction control. The rules I read on what I presumed to be the official website and as of about 2 months ago stated that *extra* traction control systems are banned. This rule has been in place since the 1990s as far as I can tell. They then referred to an appendix I could not find, related to the regulated McLaren Electronics ECU I referred to earlier. I then looked up the McLaren site, but they were just as cagey about it. If you can do better, let me know.

FIA directors call a yellow/red flag every time it's wet these days, so I'm not sure where you saw wheelspin. Perhaps during those periods when they turned the system off and were trying to get heat into their tyres? I have seen that fairly recently.

We are obviously disagreeing on what constitues 'traction control'. I call it the same thing the ACO does, but apparently closed loop ECUs somehow don't count for many, so lets agree to disagree.

You are undoubtedly right on indycars/nascars TCS, but that ruling would be because they don't have to accelerate rapidly. Personally, I can handle no TCS, I don't like it, but considering I try to drive as if I don't have it anyway for efficiency and tyre wear, and I can't die, it's not a big deal.

ABS is a different matter though, and the true point of asking this question - Punters rarely notice TCS is enabled, but I get alot of sometimes rude comments about ABS being off, before they quit. It really seems like someone is propagating the idea that it is allowed in real life. No one as yet, has mentioned where this comes from.

A perhaps amusing story about how bad this is: Last week I was following a guy who kept smashing into walls on corner exits. Of course he was in the most powerful car he could find. His braking wasn't terrible, he wasn't overshooting enough to go off track much, but it was enough to wreck his racing line. He started to blame the lack of ABS, until I told him to turn his TCS up. I guess he didn't realise that while I can enable it, it's up to him to set it to the correct level.

Go figure.
 
Indycars do road courses, so yes, yes they do.

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As for Formula One:

9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.
Click to expand...

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8710/fia.html

Anything that actively pulls back torque in low traction situations without driver intervention is banned.

What isn't banned is a system whereby a driver can alter the engine mapping during a low traction situation to reduce torque and thereby wheelspin.

What is banned is having the engine map automatically change when you change the gears. This is why McLaren came up with the double-paddle system in 2008, which allowed the drivers to dial back the engine map as he went down the gears, and then back up to the prime map after the corner exit.
 
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