AC, FFB and the T500

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Whitestar

Whitestar

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Whitestar127
Hi all. Just tried this game yesterday and I have to say I'm impressed with the graphics and smoothness.

However, I had not configured the FFB in neither the drivers or the game. The result was that I had no indication when my tyres started to slip, so I spun around quite often. Probably way too much strength or damping going on, I don't know. In GT6 I can feel it in the wheel when my car starts to slip. How can I configure AC to have the same effect there?

So I wonder if anyone has a good setup for the T500. I found @skazz's settings for the G25 in another thread:

--------------------------
Drivers:
Overall 101% [above 100% reduces the feel of deadzone in the middle, some use 107% for this but I've had my wheel on 101% for the last 5 years and see no reason to change]
All other settings 0%
Rotation 900
Separate pedals
No centering spring
Don't let game alter these settings
In game:
85% gain
15% damping
Brake 2.4 gamma (default)
Turn off all "fake" effects, namely road, slip and curbs
---------------------------

I will try these for the T500 and see how it goes. But could someone explain why road, slip and curbs are considered "fake"? I'm sure I misunderstand this but isn't for example slip the effect you feel when your wheels start to slip? Why would one turn that off?

Lastly, I found this video:

Is that guy doing everything correctly?

If someone could post some good settings where clipping is at a minimum then it'd be much appreciated. Thanks :)
 
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Slipping is the vibration you get when the tires spin at the start or when you lock the brakes. This is not the feeling you get when the back is going loose.
I am using G25 and I feel very well when the front or rear tires lose grip.

Those effects are considered fake because they don't come from the suspension telemetry but are added to simulate feedback from certain conditions.
 
Hi.

You shouldn't pay too much attention in the logitech settings, as T500 is from different make and it has its own software etc. so they dont correlate at all.

Also unfortunately T500 seems to be a wheel with a bit more 'issues', ie. not as excellent ffb as it could be atm in AC. Or that's the impression I have gotten.

On their forums they have their suggested settings for the T500 too.
 
JvM
Hi.

You shouldn't pay too much attention in the logitech settings, as T500 is from different make and it has its own software etc. so they dont correlate at all.

Also unfortunately T500 seems to be a wheel with a bit more 'issues', ie. not as excellent ffb as it could be atm in AC. Or that's the impression I have gotten.

On their forums they have their suggested settings for the T500 too.
Click to expand...

That's also the case with GT6. Is it game design or is the t500 just not so great?

Whitestar
Hi all. Just tried this game yesterday and I have to say I'm impressed with the graphics and smoothness.

However, I had not configured the FFB in neither the drivers or the game. The result was that I had no indication when my tyres started to slip, so I spun around quite often. Probably way too much strength or damping going on, I don't know. In GT6 I can feel it in the wheel when my car starts to slip. How can I configure AC to have the same effect there?

So I wonder if anyone has a good setup for the T500. I found @skazz's settings for the G25 in another thread:

--------------------------
Drivers:
Overall 101% [above 100% reduces the feel of deadzone in the middle, some use 107% for this but I've had my wheel on 101% for the last 5 years and see no reason to change]
All other settings 0%
Rotation 900
Separate pedals
No centering spring
Don't let game alter these settings
In game:
85% gain
15% damping
Brake 2.4 gamma (default)
Turn off all "fake" effects, namely road, slip and curbs
---------------------------

I will try these for the T500 and see how it goes. But could someone explain why road, slip and curbs are considered "fake"? I'm sure I misunderstand this but isn't for example slip the effect you feel when your wheels start to slip? Why would one turn that off?

Lastly, I found this video:

Is that guy doing everything correctly?

If someone could post some good settings where clipping is at a minimum then it'd be much appreciated. Thanks :)
Click to expand...

DO NOT use the g25 settings.
From what I've ~60% overall is supposed to represent REAL LIFE feel or something along those lines.(seems 60%+ induces clipping no matter what in game settings you have)
If you google t500+assetto corsa, you'll find many setups. See which works best. As for the video, those are his DRIFT settings from what I recall.
 
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GT6? I've thought that the T500 has clearly better ffb in GT6 vs the g27 etc.
It's not a bad wheel at all, more like opposite.
 
Ffb seems to have gotten weaker and weaker with every update that came to gt6. Lack of kerb rumble in many places.
 
I'll check my settings a little later. For the drivers, I'm using the latest driver version. Keep strength on the default 60 and I'm pretty sure I have damper and spring both set to 0. I'll look a little later.

I think the FFB is terrific on the T500, although the gold standard for FFB is rF2.
 
The T500RS in AC is currently a little strange, and most people are finding that you need very different settings for drifting or for racing. Obviously FFB is a very personal thing, and it's vastly configurable on the PC, so getting 100 guys together and asking them to provide their perfect settings on a PC sim will get you 100 different answers :)

The basic approach for T500RS is to set 60gain/100constant/100periodic/0spring/0damper in drivers, then somewhere between 50-60% gain in game, then tune the fake effects (slip, curb, road) as needed. If you want some damping in game, you need to add some damping in drivers since the drivers apparently work as a multiplier (i.e. 10% damping in game and 100% in drivers is 10% total, 10% in game and 10% in drivers is 1% total).

Right now for hotlapping I'd recommend sticking with that, just like Paul mentioned. It's probably the best feel for smooth and controlled driving (and it generally feels great), but it won't be so great for drifting.

On the AC forum we've been discussing the benefits of altering the periodic setting. Some people have been turning off periodic, which reduces the nasty snap back you get during weight transfer while correcting slides or drifting. Personally I find that removing periodic also removes important forces such as the oscillation associated with suspension travel, and leaves me missing car communication. The AC-recommended profile uses 75% periodic, which is an interesting compromise but as with all compromises it lacks something somehow compared to the dedicated race or drift setups.

We've also been discussing the benefits of increasing gain in drivers above 60%. This basically acts as a "compression" of forces, since you are reducing the dynamic range of the wheel, but it does mean that you can feel small effects better at the cost of there being less difference between extremely powerful and extremely small effects. <remember that the T500RS dynamic range is far more than something like a G27> Especially for drifting this could be a good solution.
 
/\/\

Interesting stuff. Especially the bit about the "snap back". As you say it is nasty and it's the one complaint I have with the FFB. It can be really infuriating at times, but I always assumed I was just doing something really horrible to the car (although couldn't for the life of me figure out how I could screw things up that badly). Doesn't seem like the compromises are that great, but maybe I'll play with periodic at 80/85/90 and see if there's something that helps, but doesn't lose too much elsewhere.

EDIT: Played some with the periodic at 90 and I think I'm going to keep it there.
 
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Thanks all. I'll head over to the official forums and try the settings mentioned there. Let's hope they work out the issues.
 
Paul33993
Especially the bit about the "snap back". As you say it is nasty and it's the one complaint I have with the FFB. .
Click to expand...
The interesting thing is that the exaggerated "snap back" is T500RS-specific. It simply doesn't happen when I'm using my G25 in AC.

That's why I'm confident it'll get tuned out at some point: It's likely to be something wrong somewhere in AC's support of the T500RS, rather than an inherent flaw in the entire AC FFB system.
 
Whitestar, if you managed to find a setting that you fully satisfied?
I tested settings: Skazz, AC Support SEGARA79, DIJRP and I admit that it is difficult for me to decide, any of these above suggested.
I tried to figure something out, but do not feel and gives up quickly,I do not know exactly what I'm looking for, and then move to achieve this.
The main objective is to control the car, but I would not want to drive hanging around with one finger, I would feel slip front and rear, block the wheels, and I admit that that's what I miss the most.
Maybe it is not available, it may be the fault of my poor empathy in auto.
Sorry for my english, I hope that someone understands something and advise.
My settings:

T500 Control Panel:
Overall Strength = 60%
Constant = 100%
Periodic = 100%
Spring = 100%
Damper = 100%
Auto centre = by the game (Recommended)12%

In game settings:
Gain = 65%
Filter = 0%
Damping=0%
Kerb Effect=100%
Road Effects=80%
Slip Effects=20%
Pedal Brake Gamma =1.00
 
worms14
Sorry for my english, I hope that someone understands something and advise.
My settings:
Click to expand...


My setting:

T500 Control Panel:
Overall Strength = 100%
Constant = 100%
Periodic = 100%
Spring = 0%
Damper = 0%
Auto centre = by the game (Recommended)12%
In game settings:
Gain = 50 - 65%
Filter = 0%
Damping=0%
Kerb Effect=50%
Road Effects=50%
Slip Effects=50%
Pedal Brake Gamma =default (1.4 I think)

the t500 already has some built in dampering so I don't add to that through either the control panel or in-game.
I've read people lower some in-game settings per car. I keep a couple of profiles to use for race car / sports car / forumula.

The real advise is to activate the 'Pedals' app once in AC and watch the grey bar. As long as it stays under the max during a complete flying lap you should be good. The rest is just up to feel. Lower in-game 'Gain' settings allow freer movement, but I like it a bit stronger than AC suggests.

These are racing values. For drift values you should probably go on the AC Main Forum site or Racedepartment to get those. From what I've read the in-game gain will be around 5-7% and Kerb/Road/Slip effects will be around 10-20%. I have tried these yet, but just read about it. All t500 control panel values remain the same.

my thoughts.....👍
 
@worms14: I think @FishforRent is right. You should probably set Damper to 0%. And also Spring (or set it low). I haven't really played around with the Spring setting, so I can't really tell you what it does. Will have to test it I guess. Also follow FishforRent's advice on using Pedals app to avoid clipping.

I have to say that I'm really happy with the FFB now, I think it has improved a lot since I started this thread. I have to do some more drift testing to find out what is best, but judging from this thread it seems that lowering the Periodic setting is the key to better control the car and avoiding snap-back. At least that seemed to be the case for 0.5. I don't know if it has changed for 0.7.8, but give it a go and see.

So worms14, I would try these settings for racing, which are almost the same as FishforRent's, only weaker overall strength:

T500 Control Panel:
Overall Strength = 60% (Default 60)
Constant = 90% (Default 86 - I'm testing with 90 for the moment but haven't noticed any difference from 100)
Periodic = 90% (Default 75 - I'm testing with 90 for the moment but haven't noticed any difference from 100)
Spring = 0% (Default 39 - Not really sure what this does. Maybe it helps with the centering of the wheel - someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Damper = 0% (Default 11)
Auto centre = by the game (Recommended) 12% (Default 12)

In game settings:
Gain = 58% (Default 55)
Filter = 0% (Default 0)
Damping = 0% (Default 5)
Kerb Effect = 60% (Default 137 - This doesn't really affect the overall FFB, it's just a "fake" effect that lets you feel a "rumble" (vibration) on the kerbs)
Road Effects = 40% (Default 40 - Like the Kerb effect this is preferential. Use whatever you like)
Slip Effects = 32% (Default 32 - Like the Kerb effect this is preferential. Use whatever you like)
Pedal Brake Gamma = 2.40 (Default 2.40)

For drifting I would try to set Periodic to 0%.
Good luck! :)
 
Thank you gentlemen for your help and sharing your feelings and settings.
I will try it as soon as possible to check if you have found something interesting, or have come to a better setting of the division to drift and race, then please share.
Yours.
 
Quick update on this: I'm now using 60 - 100 - 100 - 0 - 0 for both racing AND drifting. Both feel awesome. I feel the drivers for the T500 are fixed/healthy now.

Edit: It might be a bit early to say that, since I only drifted with the M3. Other cars may not behave as good.
 
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Let me just add this link to the thread, in case people aren't following the AC forums:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...teering-force-strength-gain.7640/#post-101632

Kunos are working on this issue, and acknowledge it. No ETA yet.

In my own recent testing I was drifting nicely with the E30 drift using Whitestar's settings, however I was struggling with the 1M or 458, whereas I can drift them somewhat better with the G25. So I'm concluding that tweaks are happening but Kunos haven't fixed the underlying problem fully yet.

While the FFB feels really great most of the time now, I was losing the back end occasionally without feeling it on my T500RS, so I'm still not 100% convinced. There's work to do yet.
 
Placebo or not, I'd felt the issue was a lot better of late. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like it's taken a step back again with this latest update.
 
Whitestar
@worms14: I think @FishforRent is right. You should probably set Damper to 0%. And also Spring (or set it low). I haven't really played around with the Spring setting, so I can't really tell you what it does. Will have to test it I guess. Also follow FishforRent's advice on using Pedals app to avoid clipping.

I have to say that I'm really happy with the FFB now, I think it has improved a lot since I started this thread. I have to do some more drift testing to find out what is best, but judging from this thread it seems that lowering the Periodic setting is the key to better control the car and avoiding snap-back. At least that seemed to be the case for 0.5. I don't know if it has changed for 0.7.8, but give it a go and see.

So worms14, I would try these settings for racing, which are almost the same as FishforRent's, only weaker overall strength:

T500 Control Panel:
Overall Strength = 60% (Default 60)
Constant = 90% (Default 86 - I'm testing with 90 for the moment but haven't noticed any difference from 100)
Periodic = 90% (Default 75 - I'm testing with 90 for the moment but haven't noticed any difference from 100)
Spring = 0% (Default 39 - Not really sure what this does. Maybe it helps with the centering of the wheel - someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Damper = 0% (Default 11)
Auto centre = by the game (Recommended) 12% (Default 12)

In game settings:
Gain = 58% (Default 55)
Filter = 0% (Default 0)
Damping = 0% (Default 5)
Kerb Effect = 60% (Default 137 - This doesn't really affect the overall FFB, it's just a "fake" effect that lets you feel a "rumble" (vibration) on the kerbs)
Road Effects = 40% (Default 40 - Like the Kerb effect this is preferential. Use whatever you like)
Slip Effects = 32% (Default 32 - Like the Kerb effect this is preferential. Use whatever you like)
Pedal Brake Gamma = 2.40 (Default 2.40)

For drifting I would try to set Periodic to 0%.
Good luck! :)
Click to expand...



I just registered in this site to reply to this post. I need to thank you so much for sharing your settings. This actually have changed everything in my gaming experience. I can feel the car and control them much more accurately now.
I don't know how I was able to play this game before (with my old wheel g27 and with my current wheel T500 missconfigured like it was). It is much, much more realistic and natural now. I spend more than 450 hours in this game already. Felt great before, now feels nearly perfect. Thank you so much mate.

Carlos Panades.
 
Thanks for the nice post. Glad it helped you. :)

I can't take much credit though, as I got those setting from different sources. IIRC @skazz was one of them. And also the official forum.

I am now using Constant and Periodic at 100%. That's the only change from above. As you may be aware; in October (I think it was) the ffb was tweaked in a way that got rid of the evil snapback when counter-steering. That made the cars much easier and more comfortable to control. I haven't actually changed my settings since then because the wheel feels really good to me. But at some point I'm planning to run the Force Feedback Anti-Clipping Tool and see if that produces different/better results. So there's also a tip for you.

One more thing: The thing I say about setting Periodic to 0% for drifting; I haven't testet that in a looong time, so I don't even know if that has any effect anymore. Maybe skazz knows something about it.
 
I keep periodic on 100% since the update in September/October, since without it I feel like I'm missing cues in the FFB.
 
Whitestar
But at some point I'm planning to run the Force Feedback Anti-Clipping Tool and see if that produces different/better results. So there's also a tip for you.

One more thing: The thing I say about setting Periodic to 0% for drifting; I haven't testet that in a looong time, so I don't even know if that has any effect anymore. Maybe skazz knows something about it.
Click to expand...
The FFB clipping tool is invaluable for us Logitech wheel users, to get the most out of our weaker FFB without a lot of clipping. Coming from Gran Turismo it's a real revelation to discover just how much detail is actually available in the FFB, combined with a decent amount of weight to the wheel. I highly recommend it to everyone for downloading and just pop it on for any car/track combination as soon as you are comfortable enough to run a few laps without going off track or having any major incidents.
 
Johnnypenso
The FFB clipping tool is invaluable for us Logitech wheel users, to get the most out of our weaker FFB without a lot of clipping. Coming from Gran Turismo it's a real revelation to discover just how much detail is actually available in the FFB, combined with a decent amount of weight to the wheel. I highly recommend it to everyone for downloading and just pop it on for any car/track combination as soon as you are comfortable enough to run a few laps without going off track or having any major incidents.
Click to expand...
Cool, I'll give it a go for sure. I think someone mentioned that it's best to use some of the official laser scanned tracks that have a bit of bumps in them, for the best results. Or is that not important?
 
The T500RS was covered in great detail by the author of the FFB clipping tool for AC:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...ack-wheel-using-wheelcheck-and-ffbclip.14319/

We've also got a T300RS-specific thread going on the AC forums, which interestingly shows different curves for my wheel and Andrew's wheel. But basically the T300RS curves are such that you can get similar results with all kinds of settings, it scales with gain smoothly:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/thrustmaster-t300rs-settings.18311/

As Andrew noted in his final post on the FFB wheelcheck thread, you want to set FFB gain for no clipping, linearity and also comfort. The T500RS is quite powerful so it's perfectly feasible to want it slightly weaker than the absolute maximum setting without clipping. Personal preference comes into play there too.
 
Whitestar
Cool, I'll give it a go for sure. I think someone mentioned that it's best to use some of the official laser scanned tracks that have a bit of bumps in them, for the best results. Or is that not important?
Click to expand...
I found that it was the curbs and severe bumps that caused most of the big lag spikes and when using the tool you have to be careful to follow a typical racing line, otherwise you get a false result. One offroad excursion can send the FFB spiking like crazy and skew the results. Since you can tune for FFB strengthat the track, I set up a couple of overall presets and then go to the track, use the FFB tool and individually set each car's level of feedback, leaving the overall level in the main menu the same. Most cars are within a 10 point range and now that I'm used to the game, I often don't use the tool anymore and just set the car within that range and everything works out. I haven't tested it on the open wheelers though, not sure if they'll give a much different result. For my G27 my overall gain is at 80 and in game usually at 100, kerb and slip effects on quite low, 20-30.
 
Reading all your posts is of a great value. I want to ask about the ingame car settings. What do you use in the Damping? Sometimes I think it feels better with it set to 0, sometimes I think the opposite, some clarification on that matter would be nice. Thanks
 
cabelo3d
Reading all your posts is of a great value. I want to ask about the ingame car settings. What do you use in the Damping? Sometimes I think it feels better with it set to 0, sometimes I think the opposite, some clarification on that matter would be nice. Thanks
Click to expand...
I don't use any damping. I want the maximum information from the wheel possible and damping smooths out the feedback too much for my tastes. I know others prefer the smoother feeling it gives. Try both and see what works for you.
 

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