AI Catch up and Slow down

[Caligula1]

Much has been written about GT4 AI with regard to the AI being poor by crashing into you, always sticking to the racing line and ignoring the player's car's existence etc etc, but I hope you excuse the new thread because I cannot find much relevant to the point I would like to make.

In a driving game which is much more sim than arcade, why oh why do all the previous GT games have AI which "catches up and slows down"

By this I mean you take a race, any race, and if you drive very slowly the AI will slow down. If you run a good time the AI will catch up.

I would much prefer the AI to run "true". I know the game is designed this way so that the player always has a chance to overtake etc etc, but if I'm 15 seconds ahead/behind the AI I want it to be a true reflection.

I really do wish that all of the AI cars would run lap times which didn't exceed that which a player could achieve in the same car.

Your thoughts please

 

[cudadude2]

personally, i wish they'd get their best driver and have the AI run as close to that time as possable. I'd much rather drive my butt off and lose than lap the field in 5 laps. I figure that if some programmer can run x:xx:xxx then i can beat him. If not, i'll have a blast trying. regaurdless of all the swearing...

b

 

[98cobra]

Much has been written about GT4 AI with regard to the AI being poor by crashing into you, always sticking to the racing line and ignoring the player's car's existence etc etc, but I hope you excuse the new thread because I cannot find much relevant to the point I would like to make.

In a driving game which is much more sim than arcade, why oh why do all the previous GT games have AI which "catches up and slows down"

By this I mean you take a race, any race, and if you drive very slowly the AI will slow down. If you run a good time the AI will catch up.

I would much prefer the AI to run "true". I know the game is designed this way so that the player always has a chance to overtake etc etc, but if I'm 15 seconds ahead/behind the AI I want it to be a true reflection.

I really do wish that all of the AI cars would run lap times which didn't exceed that which a player could achieve in the same car.

Your thoughts please

Me too. Let's hope that PD has worked out all of the bugs in the A.I. this time around.

 

[T100]

Well, I want t swear and curse the AI out and maybe even just shut off the PS2 4 hours in without saving.... I want the AI to be so hard that I have like a 30% win ratio, not a 73 like in GT3

 

[Cagedheat]

I echo what cuddleydude said. But you do have to understand something. This game is marketed to tons and tons different people. The guys on this fourm, and fourms like it represent the "hardcore" gamer or enthusiast, witch is probably about only 1% mabey 2% of the market. if gamers reviews of this game came out and said that it was "too hard" or "not for the average player", it just wouldnt sell. So unfourtuneatly we are stuck playing what everyone else wants to play.

 

[DappaDaRealist]

Difficulty level should be set in GT mode, for the average player.
like i said before GT is at its best on Advance AI, no traction controle, no driver assis. using DPF, its a proper GT challenge.

 

[squeek]

GT has never had the sort of AI i have wanted. i want an AI that brakes late, makes mistakes and slipstreams you on straights then tries to overtake. id love to drive right up their butt flashing my lights intimidating them. but most of all, id like an AI that i can challenge rather can kick the **** out of. even on professional the racing is too easy. not good. lets just pray

 

[WhiteSW20]

I'm concerned about the AI too. But it does look promising. The recently released B-spec modes do show the AI cars competeing against each other at quite a rapid pace and also without hitting walls on narrower tracks. I donno if they will be the same when actually driving the car by yourself but lets hope the AI is just as good as B-spec or better

Artz

 

[Flinx]

I echo what cuddleydude said. But you do have to understand something. This game is marketed to tons and tons different people. The guys on this fourm, and fourms like it represent the "hardcore" gamer or enthusiast, witch is probably about only 1% mabey 2% of the market. if gamers reviews of this game came out and said that it was "too hard" or "not for the average player", it just wouldnt sell. So unfourtuneatly we are stuck playing what everyone else wants to play.

basically i agree.
but your percentage is way to high methinks.
if i remember right, all parts of GT together sold a number up to 30 million copies.
asuming that GT 3 was sold most amongst all parts, we may talk about 7 to 8 million copies.
so one percent then should be about 70000 to 80000 forum members world wide.
i guess we can be lucky if all GT-related forums together get a real body count of 20000, keeping in mind that there are multi-forum members as well as registered users that have lost interest and do not contribute anymore.

on a side note, i think the real hardcore gamers do stick to the more realistic pc sims which do also allow online racing.

 

[Lambo88]

I totallly agree on this one. It gets very boring to se the AI adapt to your speed or slow down to give you a chance. I'd like an AI that runs its time and does some mistakes, in fact, more human like, more competitive and less predictable.

AI has always been the worse part of GT.

See ya

 

[Solid Lifters]

I tell you why I hate the AI catch up feature of GT games. You can never accurately set up your car to win a race. Here's my point.

I ran a stock Chevy Camaro race car in of the the Amateur class races. I can't remember which one it was, but it's the one with the all the different GT style race cars, and it runs 5 laps long. I'm pretty damn good at racing, so the first two laps I gain a pretty big lead, but not the real lead I should have built up, thanks to the "catch up" feature of the AI cars. Well, I needed that real time I would have gained without the AI-CU because I needed to pit to change my tires at the fourth lap. If I pitted, they would pass me, then I would have to play catch up to them, without the aid of a "CU", and sometimes, I wouldn't catch up in time to come in first! Talk about infuriating! If I didn't pit, the tires would lose all traction, and the AI cars would catch up and beat me by just a few seconds. So, you see, in this example the AI-CU screws up your game completely. But, in other races, it makes the race more challenging. So there is a trade off, of good and bad with AI-CU. Overall, I think the AI-CU is a good thing to have.

Another funny thing to note about the AI-CU, I once got preoccupied just before the start of a Clubman race. I was using the B License prize car, a 160 HP Miata LS, and started the race one-half lap behind. Now, normally I can run this race with this car, and win by 9 or 10 seconds, but I though there was no way I could win it with a half lap down. But, for fun, I ran it anyway. I won that race by 5 seconds, at least. Odd, but give it a try.

 

[animateria]

So thats why the AI keeps staying close (at around 14 secs behind) my arse while I drove in the same patterun kicking their ass when I was behind them!!!

I thought I was getting lazy cause I was in first position or something!!

 

[Leppter]

i find that they have a 'tractor beam range' once i get about 10 seconds ahead the catch up turns off and i start gaining about 5-10 seconds a lap on them. I personally hate catch up because im usually the one who looses out on it, frankly i could care less if i won by +20 laps on an endurance that would just mean i was using a faster car/driving better.
In fact ive never really played GT to 'beat the opposition' because its usless (with the exception of the formula GT using that crappy polyphony 002) so i just keep trying to get a faster lap time....

 

[DRIFT4EVA]

Cuddleydude!?!?! WTF!?!?!?

Yep I'm sick and tired of bad AI. But regarding that "hard core gamer" and "average gamer" ****. I reckon that there should be a parameter, which adjusts the difficulty.

Easy - You walk straight over them



Medium - Ok Can pull off some good moves. They do fight back and can keep up



Hard - Let the swearing begin

That would sort that problem out. I want AI that would react as I would. Like pull off the Under and Over move. All that kind of thing.

 

[yeti]

I think a lot of you are thinking that the compter cheats with it's catch-up ability...

Which is wrong... What happens is that if you're behind the AI drives a less aggressive race and when you get closer they get more aggressive... and when you get past them they drive even better... However... they never break the physics of the cars that they are driving.

If I can I will draw a parrellel to B-spec mode... where you have the 5 driving styles. 1 = easy, 3 = average, 5 = hard.

When you're behind the AI is on 1. When you're level the AI is on 3. When you're in front the AI is on 5.

Also this catch-up that the PS2 gives to the player is only evident in the lower leagues... not in the Pro league.

So lets say in beginner the AI starts on 1 goes to 2 when you're level and then goes to 4 when you're in front.

In Amateur it starts on 2 goes to 3 when level and then 5 when in front.

I'm sure it does happen slightly in the pro Leagues... but I suspect it starts on 3, 4 = level and 5 = ahead.

This catch-up stuff was discussed and proven to work in a similar way in an age old thread here somewhere... bummed if I can find it... but I'm sure someone else will soon.

C.

 

[forget_123]

There is a car setting picture out there somewhere in the forum... and the word "Hard" is right on the top of that pic... probably that means there are the difficulities setting in this game...

 

[dcr22B]

The problem of appealing to different markets has affected the sales of Richard Burns Rally (which is marketed as a rally simulator and not an arcade game in the vein of the WRC and CMR series) and that is probably why PD are not taking big chances so as to risk sales.

 

[Rapidone]

Well, I want t swear and curse the AI out and maybe even just shut off the PS2 4 hours in without saving.... I want the AI to be so hard that I have like a 30% win ratio, not a 73 like in GT3

Now you know how Michael Schumacher feels with the poor AI in formula one GPs.

 

[F310B]

lol I have an experience similar to Solid Lifters' one.

I was doing the last race of some amateur championship on GT, at Grand Valley. I had won all the preceding 9 races, so you can imagine I was pretty keen to win this one.

I took the lead in my Pennzoil on the first lap of 5, and pulled out a couple of seconds' advantage over the chasing AI Oreca Viper. By lap 3 I felt pretty confident I could keep him behind, even though my medium-soft tyres were wearing slightly. Then, he suddenly pulled into the pitlane at the end of lap 3/beginning of lap 4. I thought 'yeah, this race is over now, even with AI catchup he won't get me'.

There I am, happily cruising along, checking my mirrors, and as I pull onto the pit straight to start the last lap, who should I see but the Oreca Viper! He has caught up the 25 second advantage in 1 lap. Fortunately, the boost stops there, but unfortunately, he has fresh soft tyres, I have worn tyres. So I block him all the way around the circuit, wheelbanging into every corner. At the final fast right hander I get him on the outside of me, and as he pulls alongside I drive him outward into the wall. But he simply bounces off and drives past me on the grass to take the win. Man, was I pissed

I went to watch the replay, and it turns out the Oreca Viper did a 1:28 *out* lap on lap 4, compared to my 1:49 clean lap. For comparison, that is almost an F1 car - speed lap.

In th end I went back and won the race as a single event, by allowing the Oreca to pass me with a few corners to go, and ramming him at the entrance to the left-right chicane before the last corner, hitting him so hard that he spun backwards into the wall.

 

[F310B]

I think a lot of you are thinking that the compter cheats with it's catch-up ability...

Which is wrong... What happens is that if you're behind the AI drives a less aggressive race and when you get closer they get more aggressive... and when you get past them they drive even better... However... they never break the physics of the cars that they are driving.

They do cheat! They don't obey the laws of physics, just watch a replay with a computer car playing catchup. They do laps that no human player could even get within 10 seconds of. I've seen an AI Oreca do a 1:28 at Grand Valley. The best humans have done is 1:29.

There were 2 major differences. 1) The AI was coming out of the pitlane as it started the lap (it was an out lap), costing it several seconds.

2) It was driving an untuned Oreca Viper, with about 600 hp. These humans were driving a fully tuned Viper with about 1000 hp.

The computer AI cheats, period.

 

[Nasadus]

This has been said a million times but here it is one more time:The best thing that PD should do is go to Codemasters and buy their Race Driver 2 A.I. code.It's the best A.I ever seen in a racing game plus it's scaleable(sp?) in difficulty from 60%(6 sconds off their 100% level) to 110%.It is the perfect solution,but the question still remains.Would Codemasters sell their A.I code?

 

[_aj]

RD2 code is good and all but sometimes to me they're too cautious, look at the way you can hold up a whole pack by stopping in the middle of the track, they wait for you to fix yourself not go around or take the opportunity themselves. They are great at racing though.

 

[yeti]

They do cheat! They don't obey the laws of physics, just watch a replay with a computer car playing catchup. They do laps that no human player could even get within 10 seconds of. I've seen an AI Oreca do a 1:28 at Grand Valley. The best humans have done is 1:29.

There were 2 major differences. 1) The AI was coming out of the pitlane as it started the lap (it was an out lap), costing it several seconds.

2) It was driving an untuned Oreca Viper, with about 600 hp. These humans were driving a fully tuned Viper with about 1000 hp.

The computer AI cheats, period.

How precisely do you know how much HP the Computer is running?

C.

 

[dcr22B]

I know that it sounds a bit far-fetched but a safety car feature would be perfect in some of the Endurance races to compensate for the AI being too slow.

 

[GTXLR]

there was a post on this board somewhere, not sure if it was a screen or translation.
But there are the three following difficulty levels:?

1: Beginner event hall
2: Professional event hall
3: Extreme!!!!!!!! event hall (just wonder if it will be any more dificult than Hard in GT3)

plus in addition:
Mission Hall
Rally Hall
Time Trial Hall
POWER & Speed Hall
Endurance Hall

Ill see if i can locate this info and post it up later.

Edit: translation of the motor resort screen reveals.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49178&highlight=extreme

 

[cudadude2]

I know that it sounds a bit far-fetched but a safety car feature would be perfect in some of the Endurance races to compensate for the AI being too slow.

so like in nascar when someone gets too big a lead, someone finds some mystery debris on the track to bunch everyone up again....

b

 

[Greyout]

I think a lot of you are thinking that the compter cheats with it's catch-up ability...

Which is wrong... What happens is that if you're behind the AI drives a less aggressive race and when you get closer they get more aggressive... and when you get past them they drive even better... However... they never break the physics of the cars that they are driving.

If I can I will draw a parrellel to B-spec mode... where you have the 5 driving styles. 1 = easy, 3 = average, 5 = hard.

When you're behind the AI is on 1. When you're level the AI is on 3. When you're in front the AI is on 5.

Also this catch-up that the PS2 gives to the player is only evident in the lower leagues... not in the Pro league.

So lets say in beginner the AI starts on 1 goes to 2 when you're level and then goes to 4 when you're in front.

In Amateur it starts on 2 goes to 3 when level and then 5 when in front.

I'm sure it does happen slightly in the pro Leagues... but I suspect it starts on 3, 4 = level and 5 = ahead.

This catch-up stuff was discussed and proven to work in a similar way in an age old thread here somewhere... bummed if I can find it... but I'm sure someone else will soon.

C.

the AI cars are usually all in competition with eachother, regardless if you accidently took off the wong direction at the starting line. They shouldn't collectively slow down & speed up.

 

[Jegato]

GTXLR - that's not any different from the 3 levels in GT3 (novice, amatuer, professional) where the only real difference is 2 lap, 3 lap or 5 lap . Just renamed

 

[Buggy Boy]

I'd accept that the leader slows down when he's far in front at the end of the race.
But it is quite ridiculous that whole the field slows down when the last car is far behind.

At least this slow down/speed up option should be unselectable.

 

[Buggy Boy]

Now you know how Michael Schumacher feels with the poor AI in formula one GPs.

That was untill it was discovered that he was using the cheat code for the flexible rear wing Since then most AI seem to be faster then Michael ...