AI idea for GT6

  • Thread starter Thread starter lambiepie
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lambiepie

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i was just thinking that as the current GT5/PS3 combo is basically always connected to the internet for content and online racing (ok i know some of you will say you don't use it online), but how about this for an idea for the AI..


the AI for any race regardless of level or rank of race or player, the system randomly uses the race data of another driver..

with the following system rules in place for the whole GT6 system,

1. Any driver who cuts a corner, their Race DATA cannot be used in the AI system
2. Any driver who basically is cynically crashing about, again their DATA is not used,

i am thinking this could be the solution to the AI in the game,

i mainly play online spend all day looking for clean rooms and have a great time, for me its not always the winning but just trying to beat the guy who is directly in front and out driving him, now imagine if the AI is Randomly selected, from actual Skill levels of other actual game users..

with the obvious GT6 system matches for Race etc etc, i think it would be great, instead of having AI thats a boring train, you would have to out drive other people just like you do when playing in the online lobbies, and visually it could be good as we all take different racing lines and have different styles,

if we can save Game replays from online lobbies (GT5) and watch in the replay viewer, the file size and save is very quick, so the car location on track, and all necessary speed, line etc etc is obviously a small amount of data..

why not have this has real time AI data, and then no two races will ever be the same again in the offline races, just like real life.....
 
This wouldn't work. How should they react when you crash into them? Like a solid rock which doesn't move a millimeter?
 
Read above. Sorry, I clicked "save" too early and had to edit.
 
i see, i was thinking more like AI already has been programmed to work with you on the track, as in it breaks when you do if they cant pass so it stays behind, but the AI data then might access data from you where it uses your preferred driving line, so i have to defend against your style and the car i am chasing in front of both of us is some other drivers driving style, that we both have to figure out, at the moment the AI is fairly easy to figure out all the way through the pack,
every day thousands of drivers do thousands of laps in the game globally, lets map it like they map the tracks and make the AI realistic...
 
lambiepie
i see, i was thinking more like AI already has been programmed to work with you on the track, as in it breaks when you do if they cant pass so it stays behind, but the AI data then might access data from you where it uses your preferred driving line, so i have to defend against your style and the car i am chasing in front of both of us is some other drivers driving style, that we both have to figure out, at the moment the AI is fairly easy to figure out all the way through the pack,
every day thousands of drivers do thousands of laps in the game globally, lets map it like they map the tracks and make the AI realistic...
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But how would that work with several AI controlled cars on track? They'll all simply do their own race and occasionally get stuck behind each other?
There won't be any random (rare of course) driving mistakes? They'll never fight for a position? They'll never try to defend their position, change their line to cover the inside line?
 
Well Perhaps the Powers at be, will spend less time making a billion cars and figure this out,

i like GT been on it since GT1 and still like it, just seems to be more Style over Substance these days, you can make the thing look as Purdy as you like but if the racing sucks, the racing sucks, back way back when, when Graphics was shocking by todays standards the one constant was the gameplay, who remembers when they figured out that "Weight transfers" were programmed in GT1 so your car slewed across the road when your taking it a bit fast,,
i just think if they looked into this seriously, they could figure out how to make it work, they have TB of game play data scurrying all across the online lobbies 24/7
 
lambiepie
err dont get that one!
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Notice that on each race, there will be this one, godly car that is like 30 seconds ahead of everyone? The moment you climb at the number 2 spot, the game becomes a "chase the rabbit" kind of game. We need more pack racing here. :(
 
Problems with the proposal:
* Only covers the racing line, but how the AI responds to traffic, both initiating passes and reacting to being passed, is a huge issue that needs to be done right. The GT5 AI needs a lot of improvement in both areas.
* Only works for car and track combinations that are actually raced. Anything else requires that the AI know how to extrapolate from driving a car it knows to driving a different car, assuming that there's the necessary knowledge base for that particular track.
* Doesn't discriminate between lines set by drivers who are excellent, those who are average, those who are poor, and those who are incompetent.
 
Valid points MrWednesday but I still have faith in this. Why? Other games managed to incorporate "ghosts" of other online players and they're pretty enjoyable. If others can do it, why can PD not?
 
Or they could just improve their AI. Much easier and more effective. Who gets picked to be the AI? What if they're absolutely terrible? What if they're GT Academy potential? The human person has way to many variables to factor in how they race. How do they react to you and your movements?

Ghosts are a totally different thing than what you're describing. For one they're actual "ghosts" meaning you can drive through them so they don't ruin your line.
 
GTMail
Or they could just improve their AI. Much easier and more effective. Who gets picked to be the AI? What if they're absolutely terrible? What if they're GT Academy potential? The human person has way to many variables to factor in how they race. How do they react to you and your movements?

Ghosts are a totally different thing than what you're describing. For one they're actual "ghosts" meaning you can drive through them so they don't ruin your line.
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"Ghosts" meaning the fighting game ghosts. The A.I. picks the human players habits and tries to fight you based on those. Same with racing, this human player has a tendency to just plow through that curb at Trial Mountain so this "ghost" will do that 75% of the time.

As for absolutely terrible vs GT academy level, then they have to follow the level of the event. If it's a level 10 event then opponents should be the "ghosts" of the human players ranging from level 8 - 12.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Seems like too much work for little gain. They just need to develop a good AI. F1 2012 has the best AI I've raced against, IMO. I'd really like to see them develop an AI that actually thinks and reacts, rather than something that's just programmed.
 
This isn't realistic. There is no point in having complicated coding that analyzes a player's habits and then aiming to replicate them. It would simply be easier and more efficient to simply program AI to have its own habits.

"Ghosts" are useless for AI substitutes because we would be racing against untouchable opponents with which we can't interact in any way, eliminating any shred of illusion that it's an actual race between cars.

Every spin on these player-based AI notions has problems that cannot be resolved without dismissing the ideas entirely.
 
I really don't understand you guys. You keep talking about GT5's retarded, drunk, etc. AI and being skeptical about AI in GT6. Now, take a look for AI agresivity in options and set it to 8 for example. This only works in arcade, though they drive perfect imo. This agresivity set to 8-10 should be used in GT6 and we're saved :) cheers
(I'm not trying to act like I found America, just saying)
 
Lord Protector
I really don't understand you guys. You keep talking about GT5's retarded, drunk, etc. AI and being skeptical about AI in GT6. Now, take a look for AI agresivity in options and set it to 8 for example. This only works in arcade, though they drive perfect imo. This agresivity set to 8-10 should be used in GT6 and we're saved :) cheers
(I'm not trying to act like I found America, just saying)
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On my system it's set to 10 and they still drive like bricks, so what?
 
I said it a couple of times...copy and paste GTR2 or Race07 AI´s and the problem will be solved.
I mean copy the parameters that they use, how AI behaves, and how it reacts. (Also when you hit them or they hit you, they also moves no matter what in a totally realistic way)

PD should take a look at how other games does this of course.

Also as every other simulator on PC has, they should include a proper customizable level for the AI. Like a bar with a percentage from 50% to 150%, 95% is like "normal" AI and it should be in your same lap times.

Also check rFactor 2 AI´s in this video (the track is not at rFactor 2 level but...and well the physics are in other league compared to GT):



(just in case that mod is called "T5 series" and is not free, DTM 2012)
 
People can try Raceroom Racing Experience aka R3E. It's f2p and has a really decent AI. It's from the guys who made GTR2.
 
Foxiol
PD should take a look at how other games does this of course.
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This. There are multiple other games in the genre that have excellent implementations of AI. It's a solved problem, if PD took the time to figure out what other people have done. If they can't do it themselves, they can license the tech or head hunt the top AI guy from one of the companies that has managed it. $60+ million goes a long way.

GT5 remains the only game that thinks it's acceptable to create competitive AI by giving them a really big head start.
 
Imari
GT5 remains the only game that thinks it's acceptable to create competitive AI by giving them a really big head start.
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:lol:

I think its a close race between AI and crash physics being GT's biggest weaknesses
 
I can't see how that would work.

1. The data collected from the online driver will contain overtakes, braking for cars in front of it etc. All of those things depending on the opponents that the driver faced in that particular event. You can't just port that data into another race, or it will look extremely odd.

2. If you collect two different player datas from two different races, the chance is overwhelming that at some point they're going to be on the same spot on the track, effectively running inside each other.

3. They wouldn't notice your car, so unless you want to be punted off the road you better stay out of their racing line. And as they will pick the fastest racing line, you're screwed.
 
No thankyou.

Not a great idea - eg. How are they supposed to react when you bump them, or they get pushed away?

I personally think that all PD needs to do to AI is make them less stupid.
 

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