AI level of talent

[Faquez]

I've just started playing GT4 which is a bit weird thing to admit in 2007 but after all I only got the PS2 last December which is probably even more weird :-)
anyway, the question is about opponent AI. i've read a number of times that the GT4 AI is dumb (although with my current level of driving I am probably even more dumb). but how good is AI in pure driving, not in duelling? I've won the first two championships in Beginner Events and to do this I had to tune my cars (a concept Pontiac and a Mazda MX-5) heavily (concentrating mostly on engine power). hence I get the feeling that I only beat the AI opponents thanx to my power advantage (although sometimes while chasing I can see myself making huge gains in corners thanx to sliding through them instead of driving cleanly). so what do those of you who has been playing GT4 for years think about the level of AI driving (not fighting) talent? I havent had a race with a completely equal machinery (mine and AI's) and probably there won't be any race in the game where technically it's 100% equal but you certainly have some thoughts on the way an AI drives...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I think the Ai isn't quite as dumb as it was in earlier games. In fact, in certain levels the Ai actually seems to learn tracks better from lap to lap (the same way b-spec drivers can also learn tracks and how to drive cars with different configurations).

As a whole, the Ai in GT4 is rather clueless at times...but like I said it does seem a bit better.

 

[sucahyo]

anyway, the question is about opponent AI. i've read a number of times that the GT4 AI is dumb (although with my current level of driving I am probably even more dumb). but how good is AI in pure driving, not in duelling? I've won the first two championships in Beginner Events and to do this I had to tune my cars (a concept Pontiac and a Mazda MX-5) heavily (concentrating mostly on engine power). hence I get the feeling that I only beat the AI opponents thanx to my power advantage (although sometimes while chasing I can see myself making huge gains in corners thanx to sliding through them instead of driving cleanly). so what do those of you who has been playing GT4 for years think about the level of AI driving (not fighting) talent? I havent had a race with a completely equal machinery (mine and AI's) and probably there won't be any race in the game where technically it's 100% equal but you certainly have some thoughts on the way an AI drives...

I only have hundred's hour of GT racing experience. but here is what I thought:

GT4 AI is very good.
I think the AI really do deep thinking (read: take PS2 processing time) about how to drive the effeciently using any car on any track. If there is new track, I am sure the AI can drive it well. The AI also can drive car that should be difficult to drive like RUF CTR yellow bird or car like Alpine A320. It take consideration on how the car behave during turning. They counter steer or steer according to how the car handle. It can even drift if we forced them.

But, I think the AI still can be improved, especially on track situation awareness. I don't think the overtake button (in B-Spec mode) should be necessary to decide wether the AI should overtake or not. And I think the opponent AI do not have overtake command.

Avoiding other car on corner also need an improvement. The AI seem to not include the calculation necessary to avoid other car in corner. It just do like it drive alone.

The AI seem to have poor decision on braking. It seem to have no knowledge on how much the tire slip or grip during braking. Resulting on many offroading when driving powerfull car.

The AI also seem to have lack of guts. They take corner not at the tire grip limit but a bit bellow that. We usually can drive faster than AI on long corner.

If we look at what GT4 AI lack, it seems that the AI level is limited by what computing performed, or by computing not performed. PD already announce that on PS3 they will remove all the brake they apply on GT4 AI.


Other thing that can make us win easily over AI is the AI have to use non tuned car or poorly tuned car. We can make the car drive like what we want to, the AI can't. So even when we use an equal car, the AI will have to suffer the understeer while we easily pass them from corner inside .......

 

[Red_Line]

I think the AI is mediocre. They all drive the same line, and only accept a good pace. GT4 makes up for thier lack of knowledge for racing, and the missing human components by making thier cars faster. For example go to Arcade, grab an SS 86, and put the difficulty on 10, I guaruntee you will face a grid of Rally cars. Even then can you still beat them out by a second or two

 

[daan]

GT4 AI is very good.

Watch this and this and then come back and tell me that GT4 AI is very good.

 

[Red_Line]

Watch this and this and then come back and tell me that GT4 AI is very good.

lol!!! is that your b-spec driver??? You probably had him 'pushing' with red tires. Maybe if he knew how to counter-steer a drift he would'nt spin out every corner.

 

[Famine]

lol!!! is that your b-spec driver??? You probably had him 'pushing' with red tires. Maybe if he knew how to counter-steer a drift he would'nt spin out every corner.

They were AI opponents on endurance races. daan doesn't do B-Spec...

 

[daan]

lol!!! is that your b-spec driver??? You probably had him 'pushing' with red tires.

Nope, that was an AI driver. My B-spec driver was winning the race at the time.

daan doesn't do B-Spec...

Whooops.

 

[Famine]

You GIRL!

Get in the corner and think about what you've done.

 

[Stevisiov]

Someone has been abusing their B-spec driver.

It annoys me when Bob spontaneously gets the urge to revert to his lead foot driving style whatever instruction you give him

 

[Fyshokid]

Sometimes the AI can be pretty fast, but still dumb
And then sometimes there just plain stupid, like the GT40 on La Sarthe

I sometimes se them sliding around on red tires.
And when I sent Bob to win the Nürburgring 24h Endurance race, I had to pit him in every lap, or else he would be running on reds 2nd lap

The AI stinks!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Watch this and this and then come back and tell me that GT4 AI is very good.

Ever since GT1 there have always been some really BAD Ai drivers! Case in point: the GT2 Apricot enduro in which several cars consistently would pile up in turn 2 It's like Polyphony gave the keys to a fresh recruit just out of Bondurant! "here ya go...drive carefully and wear your harness" snicker.

Avoiding other car on corner also need an improvement. The AI seem to not include the calculation necessary to avoid other car in corner. It just do like it drive alone.

The AI seem to have poor decision on braking. It seem to have no knowledge on how much the tire slip or grip during braking. Resulting on many offroading when driving powerfull car..

B-spec driver can avoid this somewhat if you have them drive on "2" or "3" instead of 4 or 5, depending on the track. Have you noticed? If i leave my b-spec driver on 4 (fast) at Grand Valley East for instance, he'll almost always wind up in the grass in that last corner. So i usually leave him on 3.

 

[sucahyo]

Watch this and this and then come back and tell me that GT4 AI is very good.

I like that video .

I see that as either bug or intentional design trade-off. What I assume from that video is the AI do not change it's driving style even when the tire condition changed. Do they drive like that at the first lap?

So, I still think GT4 AI is very good. Try this:
- use N3/N1 tire
- use 0/10.0 camber

See if the B-spec spun around like that in the first lap and try to compare it with your driving skill.

I am thinking that the AI do not calculate or update it's tire grip during the race or worse, using different tire grip calculation than the physics engine.

Still I don't think that is the sign of stupid AI. That can be fix. Even when they don't expect the car to handle like that the AI still have correct reaction of what to do.

GT AI design is very good.

BTW do you know other game that have adaptive AI who can drive many car, can change it's driving style according to tuning and tire condition?

Maybe if he knew how to counter-steer a drift he would'nt spin out every corner.

I think the AI don't expect that to happen so the reaction is too late.

I would really love AI with personality. I sure wouldn't mind a drifting oriented AI.

B-spec driver can avoid this somewhat if you have them drive on "2" or "3" instead of 4 or 5, depending on the track. Have you noticed? If i leave my b-spec driver on 4 (fast) at Grand Valley East for instance, he'll almost always wind up in the grass in that last corner. So i usually leave him on 3.

Yes. Although I get frequently disappointed when trying to make the B-Spec to spun on purpose.

 

[Tulok]

yeah, yiou makea ton of sense sucahyo,
I came up with the conclusion tat PD made the AI so bad, so we would either
look like horoes on the track
or
teach us to take better lines, so they dont smash us.

 

[sucahyo]

The AI just ignoring you or anyone else. I also call AI stupid in that part. I call AI very good for it's driving skill (pure driving), not for it's track awareness skill (duelling), which I think being asked in this thread.

I think this is also the reason why PD limit the car in track and make the AI car have unequal power.

I think we will see chaos if there are 40 AI car with no personality and all have equal power........

 

[daan]

I like that video .

I see that as either bug or intentional design trade-off. What I assume from that video is the AI do not change it's driving style even when the tire condition changed. Do they drive like that at the first lap?

The NSX misses the pit, and has to do a complete 'ring lap on, I assume, red tyres. The AI still tries to do what it does every other lap, and fails miserably.

The GT40 does that every lap. New tyres, old tyres, it doesn't matter.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

That happened to me when I was B-Specing the 4Hour Nurburgring endurance. Don't laugh, it happened at the end of lap three when he missed the pit entrance. WHY COULDN'T HE DRIVE BACK?!?! Bob is, and will always be a dumbass. I hope the AI in GT5 is less horrid... I can drive my NSX-R Concept with blood red tires with ease compared to that dim witted driver. The caveman from Geico can drive better than him.

 

[sucahyo]

The NSX misses the pit, and has to do a complete 'ring lap on, I assume, red tyres. The AI still tries to do what it does every other lap, and fails miserably.

The GT40 does that every lap. New tyres, old tyres, it doesn't matter.

I see. I guess I have to change the GT4 AI driving skill rating from very good to good then . I still impressed on how the AI can adapt it's driving style to best suited the car handling.

I hope that is not because PD made GT4 AI to be dumber than GT2 AI:


http://d.turboupload.com/d/1696415/nsx_gt2_ai_drift.avi.html

 

[Sharky.]

Arcade mode AI is even worse than GT mode AI. It drives (if you could call it that) the car so slow, I was beating Evos and Legacys et al with the Dome! 165bhp vs 300!

GT mode AI is much better than Arcade AI, but still crap. Rather than slipstreaming you down a straight, they will brake in the middle of the straight if you're in their racing line down said straight, rather than pulling out and passing you!

All this being said, I have had a couple (and that's all it was, a couple) of moments where the AI drove like I wish it did - aggressive. RX7 (me) vs 350Z (it), gives me a little tap as I turn into a corner, spins me out. Also tipped me into a nice drift once, too.