Ai

[Codename 47]

I've read several posts about the AI and yes people they most deffinataly have a "handicap" type thing on so they can catch up, but should we complain to much. Until we get nascar 2002 season (or 4) on the ps2 ultra realism wont be achieved. Gran Turismo is as close as it gets... i think. Its just when they make a game for console they think of alll the non hardcore racing fans, and try to design a game for both. If they would make a game for just hardcore racing fans you wouldn't see that bullcrap catchup stuff on the AI... hopefully, the designers would realize that the people playing the game understand that you should be leading by more than 1 sec on the last lap when your racing your Gillet Vertigo racing car (or something to that extent) against the "Vitz's". But hey not saying anything bad about gt3... but yeah that AI feature does suck. But hey im still playing gt3 (almost 50%; like 47.7% i think) and having mucho funo... or something like that. thats my 2cents maybe im messed up; so before i say more im off to some racing. Happy Racing

 

[ethanol]

First off, welcome to the forums.

And, secondly, ya, I agree.... There has to be a balance between a sim and arcade and I think GT3 pulls this off relatively well. Sure, the AI has catchup on, but I don't find it to be a huge hurdle.

I myself like the balance as is, 'cause truth be told, I'm not terribly good at the game. I usually end up driving a car that is a class above whatever the AI is driving.

 

[Duke]

Welcome aboard, 47. We seem to have gained a bunch of new members recently!

I'll have to do some real experimentation with the AI. Because my complaint is that sometimes it's too easy to run away from them if your car is too fast. I'm not bragging about my driving ability; I've just found that to keep the game fun I need to choose my car carefully to make sure I don't have a big advantage over the opponents.

For instance, the only MR car I own is the Clio racecar. By driving it reasonably quickly (but not balls out) I was able to win by 10-20 seconds over the Beginner MR competition; I didn't notice any real "catchup" boost in the AI cars.

I do think the balance is pretty good, but there need to be more levels of adjustment in the AI. If you win the first few races in a series, it suddenly goes from they can't catch me to I can't catch them!

 

[dan0h]

Originally posted by neon_duke
I do think the balance is pretty good, but there need to be more levels of adjustment in the AI. If you win the first few races in a series, it suddenly goes from they can't catch me to I can't catch them!

Oh tell me about it ... The TT races and the Beginner Altezza race (IIRC) what in the hell got into PD when they setup those races!?

And welcome 47, I'm a newbie myself

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by dan0h
Oh tell me about it ... The TT races and the Beginner Altezza race (IIRC) what in the hell got into PD when they setup those races!?

Heheheehh. Funny you should mention that in particular. Go read my thread about my split-personality Audi TT! And next up I'm buying an Altezza for that series; so I guess I should expect more of the same, huh?

 

[dan0h]

Last time I played the game through, I fully tricked up the Altezza and headed into the earlier of the two Altezza races ... three races under my belt with 5+ second lead finishes each time.

Got to Seattle circuit (I think) and I couldnt even keep 5th place , exchanged 5/6 place for the rest of the race...

I may be getting confused with the later Altezza race, but atleast one of them was a pain in the ass...

Good luck though!

 

[Der Alta]

My whole gripe about the AI "Boost/Handicap" is that it really detracts from the realism. I want to win fair and square. My first two times through the game I was aiming for 100%. Any method I could use to get there I did. Including running an F1 through the amateur MR races.

This time through I was picking a car that made it competitive. Something that I risked losing in. Like not gaining first place until the last corner.

If I picked a car that I nailed first place in before the first corner, I had too much car for the race. So I scale back what I needed until it was competitive. It really irritates me that I screw up the last corner and the AI blows by me to take the race. What really rubs me about that situation is not the AI winning, but that he was only 1-2 seconds behind me because he was cheating. Right now, mowing the occasional patch of grass doesn't seem too bad.

When it's skill vs skill it's acceptable to lose. When it's Skill vs skill with exceptions it doesn't seem right.

The next test of the theory is the endurance races. The Rally section is unbearably blatant about the cheating. I'll keep an eye on it as I run through the pro section.

AO

 

[Duke]

I haven't run any rallies at all, so I can't comment. But I won the Roadster Enduro by 20-30" in a second-gen Miata. I won Seattle with a 1':30" to 2 lap lead. And I won the Speedway Enduro (my TommyK ZZII vs. the AI Motorsport Elise) by 10 laps or more.

I noticed during the Amateur American Championships that the AC Cobra (which qualified in first) really spun on Laguna Turn 1 several times during the race, with no interference. He trailed badly the whole race and finished dead last by a long margin.

So the AI can lose big under some circumstances.

 

[ethanol]

the AC Cobra (which qualified in first) really spun on Laguna Turn 1

I don't recall seeing the Cobra actually make it around that corner. Man, I always laugh. You'd swear it decided to stick Sim tires on the Cobra and turn a couple of laps.

 

[Duke]

Which is funny, because the Cobra was devastating on the Seattle Circuit, which has several more difficult turns. He only finished in the basement from having to pit every 3 laps. I had at least a second per lap on everybody else in that Enduro, but he could run away from me.

 

[Der Alta]

I've also seen the cobra blow the last corner on Laguna Seca as well. For some reason he couldn't keep the back end of hte car behind him. I've had days like that. I remember doing the Seatlle Enduro and getting nervous watching the Cobra blast away, then pit on the third lap. unfortunately the last time I ran that enduro I was using an F094/H, so it wasn't much of a competition.

My disapoointement with the finding of the AI cheating has soiled me on the game a bit. Decided last night to watch Gladiator instead of playing. I'm going to run an enduro in the next few days. While doing it, I plan on checking the AI lap times. I'm hoping that the AI are only boosted in a few portions of the race. My (blinders on) theory is that PD decided that the indivual races (FF, FR, MR, Boxter....) need to have more competitive flavor. The series and enduro races don't need to have the AI boosted.

Cross finger, start rocking in my chair and repeat incesently to convince my myself of this.

AO

 

[Race Idiot]

Originally posted by neon_duke
MR car I own is the Clio racecar. By driving it reasonably quickly (but not balls out) I was able to win by 10-20 seconds over the Beginner MR competition; I didn't notice any real "catchup" boost in the AI cars.[/i]!

This is because you took a shotgun (clio race car) to a fist fight (Untuned MR2 Roadster) im not surprised you didnt lap them. You should buy more MR cars they are the best ahndling cars out of the bunch. GO Get a Honda NSX, any lotus, Any Mr2. Just buy MR cars OK?

I dont know what that has to do with ai?

Personally I find the opposite happens in my case, if im racing within the pack it remains competitive. IF I make a lead the AI seems to just give up hope and goes into headless chicken mode. If you want lifelike AI just go get a TOCA game great AI!

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Y2TUSCAN
This is because you took a shotgun (clio race car) to a fist fight (Untuned MR2 Roadster) im not surprised you didnt lap them.

I dont know what that has to do with ai?

I wasn't wondering why I won the race, in general - that much was obvious. The point was that I was easily able to out distance them (and yes, I was walking through the race, so I didn't lap anybody). The original post was that the AI gets a boost when it is losing, and I was trying to give examples when they didn't seem to get a boost.

As an aside - the Clio was my only MR car (until I won the MR2) becauseI'm trying to avoid buying any cars I don't have to, so I've been using what I win anywhere it will fit. So far the only cars I've bought are my original Miata, an Evo VI for the Evo Meeting, and a TT for the TT cup.

 

[Der Alta]

Neon:

Can you try re-running that race and let the AI lead a lap, check his time, then you lead a lap and check his time? I'm betting that he will have drastically different lap times.


I think that even when you radically outdistance them (F1 in the beginner MR race) they still get a boost. Unfotunately for them, they're simply out classed. Gun at a knife fight scenario. I ran the Amateur MR with the 787B expecting a blood bath (Ditto Neon_duke's "run what you got" theory).

Excerpt One:
MR Challenge - Beginner
Deep Forest

Speedster + 42.235
MR2 G-limited + 42.576
MR2 G-limited + 43.266
MR2 G-limited + 44.253
MR-S S edition + 46.021

Best Lap: 1’10.809 (Very sloppy cow like driving)


Excerpt Two:
MR Challenge – Amateur mode (Staying in the 787B)
Deep Forest Raceway
ZZ S: + 7.582
Clio Sport V6: + 10.232
Motor Sport Elise: + 10.648
Elise 190: + 12.761
MR 2: +14.577

Best Lap 1’09.747
Total Time 5’57.809
Average lap: 1’11.562

Should they have been that close?

AO

 

[Duke]

You wouldn't think, no. But then again you've no way to know what mods the AI has allotted to bring the cars up to race specs. I mean, my Miata looks stock but it'll do 190+ mph. So I chalk the difference between Beginner and Amateur up to car prep for the competition.

However, differing preformance within a given race can't be explained away like that. I'll do some experimentation along your lines when I get the chance. I can definitely redo the Beginner MR races to see the story.

Are there particular races in which you are interested?

 

[Der Alta]

I'd like to see you pace the MR cars and post up some of their lap times (May have to break out the paper and pencil). The wife is off tonight so I can't race. I think tomorrow night I can pace the AI cars (MR Beginner) in the Clio and then re-race to check lap times. What I'd like to see is total times for the races. I'm figuring that If I hang second place for an entire race, then compare me holding first place for two laps will give me a good time difference. Then compare that with what you come up with. After that I'll fly over to Japan, stick the results on the end of my size ten Tony Lama and issue a directive for GT4.

Seriously. I'd like to have other people give some input as well.

I'll hopefully chalk up a few notes in the near future.

Thanks,

AO

 

[Race Idiot]

Originally posted by Der Alta
Best Lap: 1’10.809 (Very sloppy cow like driving)

Can you say Rotary Moo!

Sorry Mr Neon_Duke I wasnt reding the thread properly but have you also noticed that certain cars drive really crappy NO MATTER WHAT(Pennzoil Nismo Skyline) or crazy Psycho cars that snap at your heels like a crazy little dog (Motorsport Elise, Nissan R390 racecar).

Although I can understand the cobra spinning out on laguna seca (it did that on gt2) its because the AI is too dumb to drive the thing, but this seems to happen with the R390 Racecar sometimes.

Ok ok here is another little theory

The bigger lead you get = The dumber the AI seem to get

although this seems to only happen in long race series

 

[Race Idiot]

I still think when you have the money you should go on a buying spree. I mean you cant win all of the cars

 

[Sage]

Originally posted by neon_duke
By driving it reasonably quickly (but not balls out) I was able to...

Okay, I can't contribute much to this thread, as I have not tracked the AI's times, but I just had to quote this! You're a genius neon_duke!

[edit]: Actually, I take the former part of my sentence back... I did notice when doing the Smokey Mountain II Rally that I could gain a lead of a second or two, and even though I'd run consistent times, the AI would pull out and then leave me choking some 7-8 seconds behind...