Alfa Romeo to Open US Plant

[Philly]

Okay, I guess you've got a point, there, that it's bigger and more powerful (Till we hit the R32), but I still think that's what most folks will compare it to 'round here. How much smaller is the 147 anyway?

The Alfa will still be bigger and more powerful than the R32. Powertain losses and weight mean the R32 really isn't that much faster than the GTI.

Surprisingly, the 147 actually fits the gaps in all dimensions between the Brera and the Golf. The 147 is an inch short of the VWs wheelbase and an inch longer overall. In terms of weight, it is a good few hundred pounds under the Golfs For power, the V-6 147 is in R32 power territory and the next engine is about 20 under the lower bunny. So it looks like the Brera is some form of coupe version of the 147? Maybe it could pass in the same class a Jetta coupe would be in?

And a little correction on the Rabbit's power vs the Brera: the 170 hp Rabbit is only down 15 horsepower.

 

[JCE]

Still, if the 147 doesn't get to the US the Brera is going to...which is just fine to me. Such a pretty car.

 

[McLaren]

That's awesome.
Over the summer I was over there and those cars look awesome.
I don't remember the name of a model but it was an hatchback with quad huge tips.
Roar'ed like hell too, anybody know what I'm talking about?

You're probably thinking of the 8C which is going to be well into the 6 figure market. Well into. We're talking F430/Gallardo prices according to interested buyers on FChat who saw the car in California.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Judging by our North American standards of "hatchback" though, and the fact the 8C was just released (wait, has it even been offfically yet), I'd guess it's probably the Brera he's talking about though. Certainly possible about the 8C, but much more likely to be the Brera.

While this news makes me happy, I'm skeptical about how well they'll do. They better have a better dealer experience than Europe, but it's just a shame that the new 159 platform (underneath the sedan, the Brera/Spider, and the upcoming 166 replacement) is way too heavy for its class. The Brera's over 1700kg in V6 4WD form. People who buy it will be paying a hefty fee for the exclusivity and looks over the R32.

 

[Div is back]

You're probably thinking of the 8C which is going to be well into the 6 figure market. Well into. We're talking F430/Gallardo prices according to interested buyers on FChat who saw the car in California.

Pretty car none the less, thanks for the information.

 

[YSSMAN]

More deets continue to come down as Alfa looks to expand their North American operations:

The Italians are coming, the Italians are coming! And when they get here in the guise of Alfa Romeo, they will be looking for a factory where the 8C and other cars wearing the cross and serpent can be built. Alfa is looking at two options regarding a U.S.-based factory: buy one of GM, Ford, or Chrysler's closed factories, or expand a Case New Holland factory.

Case New Holland, which is actually owned by Alfa, makes agricultural machinery and construction equipment. It already has 11 plants in the U.S., and Alfa could simply expand one of them to make cars. The plant, a location for which will be selected in May, will begin churning out Alfas in 2011 or 2012. At capacity, production is expected to be around 150,000 cars for the North American and European markets. Alfa Romeo will decide on the distribution network and particular vehicles to be made within three months, which makes it sound as if the Italians are definitely coming.

Sweet. I'd hope they have the guts to buy some GM/Ford/Chrysler plants here in Michigan, but I wouldn't be surprised if they swing south to get the low labor costs too...

 

[Omnis]

There's a New Holland dealership next to my school. I wonder if it'll be the first Alfa dealer.

 

[YSSMAN]

If not I'd expect the Maserati dealer down in Coral Gables to carry them, seems like they had plenty of room if they needed to expand further. I'm still interested to hear how FIAT wants to do this, because they obviously aren't going to be successful if they only sell through premium dealers...

Furthermore, if the rumors that they may kick a few 500s over here is true, thats just a marketplace suicide waiting to happen.

 

[Omnis]

I just think it would be awesome to have MiTos and Breras parked next to bulldozers.

 

[deadlyz33]

Would be awesome to see A.R.'s in the USA for once! The more cars the better!

 

[High-Test]

Would be awesome to see A.R.'s in the USA for once! The more cars the better!

You mean again?

The 164 was the last Alfa sold here.

 

[Prosthetic]

I don't ever recall seeing a 164. EVER. The only ones I see are the Spyders, and the Giulia Sport (sp?) But the Spyders mostly.

 

[buickgnx88]

You may not have seen 'em, but Wiki says that in 1995 the last ones sold here were indeed 164's.

 

[YSSMAN]

They're around but they're very difficult to find. I've seen a few here in Grand Rapids, notably a red one (its an Alfa, what do you expect?) and a white one. They're nice cars as I recall, but very rare indeed. Almost makes me want to go and hunt one down, that, and one of those old Peugeots as well...

 

[Prosthetic]

There is someone near me that has a Peugot station wagon. Not sure what kind but it's a diesel I think.

 

[High-Test]

There are a few 164s and a BEAUTIFUL Peugeot 505 wagon in Overland Park, KS. They're all very cool cars.

On what Omnis(I think?) said: I would love to see a bunch of 159s and Breras next to combine harvesters.

 

[Hugo Boss]

I think you'll be getting future models with an FR layout, since AR has plans to go back to FR for the bigger models. I hope they don't plan on offering you the 159 and the Brera.
If they plan on building the cars that they sell over here, the story will be over soon. The only beautiful Alfa at the moment is the GT, but that's near the end of it's career. The 147 is a fossil, the 159 handles well but looks hideous next to the gorgeous 156, the Brera is a car nobody asked for and the 8C is fantastic but they're already sold out.

The reliability of Alfa's is a lot better these days, but the build quality isn't. Expect lots of rattles, shakes and tiny problems that won't refrain you from arriving at point B, but do spoil the driving experience.

 

[Philly]

The reliability of Alfa's is a lot better these days, but the build quality isn't. Expect lots of rattles, shakes and tiny problems that won't refrain you from arriving at point B, but do spoil the driving experience.

Sounds like Volkswagen.

IMO, if they can do what VW does and offer a car that'll fit between the premium brands and the economy brands and sell it a little over the economy brands, they should do well. Maybe they won't have the same kind of German engineering that the VW has, but I'm sure they could capitalize on their Italian heritage and try and build a very stylish car like the 8C and Mi.To. And if they could bring us RWD in a car the size of a Passat and sell it around the same price, all the better for them.

They'll just have to find the right segment of the population to market to. Maybe that would be the West Michigan type that already likes to buy VWs. I'm guessing few people are going to cross-shop an Alfa with a Mercedes?

 

[YSSMAN]

BAH! Beat me with the VW comment!

I think your assumption is correct, Phil. My guess would be that if priced correctly, Alfa is likely going to spend most of its time with those "intermediate" brands like VW, Acura, Saab and Volvo that are kinda luxurious, and kinda not. My guess would be that if they did open a dealer either here or in Holland, they'd likely have a fair bit of success. I know I'd be happy to sign for a 159 if it were available for a good price, but as we all know, it would be the Mi.To that would decide their success here in the US.

 

[Prosthetic]

How are Volvo's only kind of luxurious, they are so god damn comfy
You sink right into the leather and makes your bum feel good

 

[YSSMAN]

Maybe its just me, but I don't really consider them able to compete against the BMWs and Cadillacs of the world, but certainly they are above the Buicks and Lincolns out there. They're great cars, but it seems pretty comfortable in that gray area with Saab and Acura.

 

[Prosthetic]

My Grandma has always had Caddys, and a lot of them aren't nearly as comfortable.

 

[Jim Prower]

Heh. I think I saw what I THOUGHT at the time was a 155...It may have been a 164. I've also seen a GTV6. May have been the Callaway version. Had a stripe on it.

Did they sell 155s In the U.S.? I do remember that it had a US plate (not an Illinois plate, though) on it, and, seeing it from the rear, It looked like the 155s I was playing with in Gran Tursimo 2.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe its just me, but I don't really consider them able to compete against the BMWs and Cadillacs of the world, but certainly they are above the Buicks and Lincolns out there.

Funny to read this for an European Comparing a BMW to a Cadillac is like comparing a VW to a KIA over here...
In Europe you can place the 159 in the group of the Mondeo's, Accord's, Passat's, 6's, Vectra's/Aura's, etc., but under the 3-series, A4 and the C. Inbetween you have the Saab 9-3 and the Cadillac BTS.
I don't know how the American brands fit in in NA, but maybe you can make a better judgement now where to place Alfa.

Sounds like Volkswagen.

Indeed, only you'll have about twice as many problems.

Edit:
Also, I read that Sergio Marchionne planned to offer European models first and start producing in NA in 2011/2012. Chances are you'll find the Alfa's at Jaguar and Land Rover dealers, because of the relationship with Tata.
Marchionne is also talking to Chrysler, Ford & GM about a possible collaboration, but nothing has been set in stone yet.
Unfortunately the source is in Dutch, but I'm sure there'll be more information about it when you search for it.

 

[Philly]

Funny to read this for an European Comparing a BMW to a Cadillac is like comparing a VW to a KIA over here...

Remember YSSMAN's strong GM bias.....

I'm sure a lot of us would say that Caddy still has a bit of work to do if they are going to be a challenger to BMW. But that could just be my German bias speaking out...

 

[Hugo Boss]

The problem is that the Cadillac doesn't have USP's. The BLS (specially designed for Europe) is a good car, but it ain't a 3-series or A4. At the same time it's more expensive than a Passat or Accord. That puts it in the class of the 'oh hello, brother!' Saab 9-3... Pure cannibalism

At the same time Cadillac lacks the status of the European premium brands. When you say Cadillac here, people think about 4 things:
-pink
-broken down
-vortex
-two parking spaces

While in fact it's an European car with an American design. Doesn't really work...

 

[Philly]

The problem is that the Cadillac doesn't have USP's. The BLS (specially designed for Europe) is a good car, but it ain't a 3-series or A4. At the same time it's more expensive than a Passat or Accord. That puts it in the class of the 'oh hello, brother!' Saab 9-3... Pure cannibalism

I'd rather have an old 9-3. But then again, I don't really like Cadillac.

At the same time Cadillac lacks the status of the European premium brands. When you say Cadillac here, people think about 4 things:

Here they are representative of the hip-hop culture with the stereotypical Escalade driver being a rapper/gangster/drug dealer sporting his 24 inch rims. It seems the rest of their cars have the same kind of attitude, and I don't really have a problem judging them all like that because Caddy seems to be trying to portray that image across the board.

I don't see them as a trying to be German sporty-luxury brand so much as a mass assault on the 300C.

 

[YSSMAN]

I disagree. Cadillac, at least to me, is truthfully the pinnacle of GM's brands and consequently become a status-symbol when one goes about buying one. Certainly they are not on the same level as BMW or Mercedes in terms of prestige, but at least in the US, I think you could argue that it is on a pretty even footing with the likes of Audi, Infiniti and Lexus.

Its that "art and science" attitude that I'm reminded of quite often, and while their cars may not be as exciting as a BMW or as luxurious as a Mercedes (well, depends on model), the Cadillac plays a good second-fiddle to both.

...Because lets be honest here, Cadillac is LEAGUES ahead of what Chrysler and Lincoln offer...

Per where to place Alfa, again, I'd see the main 159 competition as such:

The Acura TSX

The Volvo S60

The Saab 9-3

The VW Passat

The Lincoln MKZ

Thats not to say that Alfa isn't good enough to compete with the "big kids," because they certainly are (cars listed here do, "technically")... But I tend to segment the market into three steps. The "basic" cars like Ford and Toyota, the "mid-range" cars like you see here, and the "high-end" cars like the BMWs on up...