all out speed

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wouldnt it be cool if the FIA for just one year, said "ok, where not going to slow the cars down anymore" and they implied the same rules as where in place when senna and prost had the mclaren that won just about the whole season. just to see where technology could take the cars and see the differences in the lap times. imagine if u could put the wings lower, have slicks, big v12's, (i think they were v12's then) none of these aerodynamic restrictions were in place, it would be interesting to see just what the engineers could produce without some of the restrictions they have today. and to see if the drivers are able to drive them.
i remember seeing an article then that said if the mclaren of then was built with todays technology then it would be to quick even for schumi to drive.
even if it were for just one season i think it would be awesome to see. that wouold shut up all the people saying indy and champ car are catching up.
 
No. Those rules aren't in place to slow all of the cars down, but to keep the playing field level. Dare I say it, but half the teams are only in the sport because those rules actually give them a chance of winning. If the teams could do whatever they wanted, the likes of Toro Rosso, Spyker, Super Aguri and the like would abandon the championship (which would seriously screw with the Concorde Agreement) purely because they couldn't compete owing to the fact that they have to work with a very limited budget compared to the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and to a lesser extent BMW. The team owners would simply see it as a case of throwing good money after bad, therefore wasting their expenses. As Mosley has pointed out before, some teams spend millions of dollars on engine development simply trying to coax an extra kilowatt or two out. You'd then get a return to the Group B days of rallying when teams made what were little more than rockets with drivers strapped in. Moveable aero devices would become the norm and the cars would simply be little more than fighter jets on the ground ... until one aero came off, in which case the car would probably take flight. It wouldn't be a question of if someone would have a fatal accident, but when they did. Removing those would simply kill the sport if it didn't kill a driver or spectators first.
 
u seemed to have missed the point
yea some teams couldnt compete, but frankly all but 3 teams can compete now. and the point isnt about making it better for the sport, its about seeing what is capable with what we have today. i understand that it is basically impossible to do it, but thats why i said, wouldnt it be cool.
hell, it would even be cool if all the teams got together and colaborated on a once off super f1 car that was to push the boundaries of what they do. and then give all the drivers a day in the car at the same track and see what its capable of. dont tell me u wouldnt be interested in seeing what can be done.
 
The rule are there for safety reasons too , cars were getting faster and the tracks can't handel that , also part of F1 is the engineers trying to get teh maximum within the rules thats the true challange and not just opening up the rules then it would be to easy ....
 
u seemed to have missed the point
yea some teams couldnt compete, but frankly all but 3 teams can compete now. and the point isnt about making it better for the sport, its about seeing what is capable with what we have today. i understand that it is basically impossible to do it, but thats why i said, wouldnt it be cool.
hell, it would even be cool if all the teams got together and colaborated on a once off super f1 car that was to push the boundaries of what they do. and then give all the drivers a day in the car at the same track and see what its capable of. dont tell me u wouldnt be interested in seeing what can be done.
No. I like my F1 competitive, and while three teams might be competing for the top places, the next few places could go any which way. It would be a complete waste of resources to make cars that were as fast as humanly possible or to create a "super-car".
 
Post deleted. Let's try and continue this on an adult level, okay?
 
Williams were asked by F1Racing magazine to theoreticly think up something along these lines a few years ago:

ultimate_williams.jpg


Although I suspect it's essentially a) what an aerodynamicist doodled on a napkin during lunch and b) a 1982 Williams design photoshopped in 2003 livery.

Edit: and in response to the original question: people would die. End of story. Of course Champ Car is catching up - F1 reached the maximum safe speed (~215mph at Monza) circuit races could be run at some time ago. Indy Racing League cars are somewhat faster on the ovals anyway (~225mph?), as that's what both the the cars and the rules are designed for, hence their lack of pace (compared to F1) on the recently-introduced road courses. Champ Cars will be catching up too speed-wise because some of the advances found in F1 are bound to filter into other series (and vice versa).
 
I don't think anyone would watch it. The "perfect" F1 car has probably changed since Team Willy knocked that one up, though I think it looks like it would have the turning circle of an oil tanker.
 
wouldnt it be cool if the FIA for just one year, said "ok, where not going to slow the cars down anymore"
As long as we're being hypothetical, I'll tell you that I'll be World Champion; I'll show up to press conferences on a pony, and I'm going to put a feather in my Bridgestone hat, and call it macaroni.

and they implied the same rules as where in place when senna and prost had the mclaren that won just about the whole season. just to see where technology could take the cars and see the differences in the lap times. imagine if u could put the wings lower, have slicks, big v12's, (i think they were v12's then) none of these aerodynamic restrictions were in place, it would be interesting to see just what the engineers could produce without some of the restrictions they have today. and to see if the drivers are able to drive them.
Please read about F1 history first, before making it up. In any case, you can skip the part about how Ayrton Senna also slayed the Kraken and resuced Andromeda before winning the 1988 Japanese GP. Nigel Mansell really did it, but only after he took a bullet for Juan Manuel Fangio during the podium celebration of the 1976 Lichtenstein Grand Prix.
 
While i would be interested to see the most advanced car ever built, with technology similar to that of F1 cars, to put it in a race series, or turn f1 into that it would kill me not to mention the drivers as they go into the first corner at 200mph+ and then brake with more stopping power than current f1 cars, no driver will have time to react. look at Kubica's crash last week, he hit the barrier at 160mph, now imagine one of those things hitting the barrier with far more speed.

So yes i would like to see where technology is at, but would i like to see it them competing with each other? No No No
 
In any case, you can skip the part about how Ayrton Senna also slayed the Kraken and resuced Andromeda before winning the 1988 Japanese GP. Nigel Mansell really did it, but only after he took a bullet for Juan Manuel Fangio during the podium celebration of the 1976 Lichtenstein Grand Prix.

Did I ever mention that I love you? :lol:

In a purely platonic way, of course.
 
Such a car will need a driver with a midi-chlorian count of at least 20,000 to be able to react so fast.

Where is Anakin when you need him.
 
...the 1976 Lichtenstein Grand Prix.

I was there! Somehow the spraying of blood wasn't better than the spraying of chamagne.

I found a picture I took of the race:
lgp.jpg
 
This is what I think formula 1 should be... an all-out engineering challenge. Hell, I'd be fine if they took the driver out of the car altogether (though that would probably make passing harder).

I want to see the absolute edge of engineering when it comes to cars. I want to see the stickiest tires, the most amazing engines, the most skilled drivers, etc.

I don't care at all about making it easier for low-budget teams to compete. I don't care about how fast the drivers' reflexes have to be (that's part of the challenge), I don't care how many g's have to be pulled (also part of the challenge), and I don't care if we have to view F1 drivers as astronauts or test-pilots. This is why I watch F1 - for the engineering.
 
danoff is the only one here that gets what i was saying, u lot need to get off ur high horses.
and heres a thing, if the guys cant react to the speed there driving maybe they would have to slow down, and u would see who really was a fast driver, and who can handle the speed of what they are given. hmmm.
 
Yeah I started to watch F1 again because I fell in love with the engineering of the cars.But to tell the truth, would you like to see the most F1 cars on 'roids compete against each other? NOt really, for one reason. Take the Kubica's accident and add 40mph more upon impact. You got yourself am accident similar to Gordon Smiley , that will change the rules back to the way they were.
 
once again, we know this, its a hypothetical thing and it was said to maybe get people talking about what could be capable, and maybe what changes they could make to implement these things. not about coming on and showing how much more u know about f1 than the next person. lock this thread, u people arent cool at all. matter of fact, ur way uncool.
 
Yeah I started to watch F1 again because I fell in love with the engineering of the cars.But to tell the truth, would you like to see the most F1 cars on 'roids compete against each other? NOt really, for one reason. Take the Kubica's accident and add 40mph more upon impact. You got yourself a Gordon Smiley accident, that will change the rules back to the way they were.

Not exactly, Smiley's accident was about 25 years ago when those Indy cars were still made of steel and had an extremely Amish safety level. Nowadays we have Survival cells, Carbon fibre and common sense. More then enough to keep our drivers safe. If Kubica's accident had have occured 25 years ago. He would most definitely have been injured, and maybe killed, but Didier Pironi made it out alive some-how. So I think all this talk of driver safety is just a matter of opinion.
 
Not much is left to opinion these days. It's all measured and calculated in CAD and CFD and the wind tunnel.

I think the crux of the matter here is that D0wNForc3's game is rendered uninteresting by the fact that the collective power of F1 engineering could create, in around six months, a car which is physically undriveable. The human body has physical limits in the forces that it can withstand, and these are well-documented through air and space programmes, plus also the myriad crash-testing research that has been carried out both theoretically and in terms of accident investigation, during the intervening years between now and the time to which D0wNForc3 would like the rules regressed.

The F1 Racing magazine article suggested as much even leaving the wheel sizes the same and the tyre parameters the same, as well as having the 3.0 V10 engines at 2004 power output levels.
 
once again, we know this, its a hypothetical thing and it was said to maybe get people talking about what could be capable, and maybe what changes they could make to implement these things. not about coming on and showing how much more u know about f1 than the next person. lock this thread, u people arent cool at all. matter of fact, ur way uncool.
But I still don't see why you'd want to do it. If the teams knew the FIA was simply going to go back to the original rules a tthe end of the year, they wouldn't bother pouring billions of dollars into developing a 'hyper-car' only to throw it away at the end of the year. Even if you could somehow convince everyone to start building these cars, it would be a complete waste of resources, all simply to satisfy curiosity which could be answered by going over to Bonneville and watching someone trying to break the land speed record. Sure, it wouldn't be Formula One, but you'd be witnessing the same thing and it would probably be safer. As Giles pointed out, the human body has limits.
 
I think the crux of the matter here is that D0wNForc3's game is rendered uninteresting by the fact that the collective power of F1 engineering could create, in around six months, a car which is physically undriveable.

Then that's probably not a winning car is it? If you want a human in the cockpit, you have to keep that human alive, concious, and able to react. That requires engineering around the human.

Jet fighters are capable of exceeding human capabilities as well, but the folks that design them have to keep in mind the constraints of the human body while still finding a way to out-corner the bad guys. The same rules apply on the road here. It's all part of the process.

You guys seem to be under the impression that if the rules were lifted, teams would immediately build cars that caused their drivers to pass out in the middle of turn 1. That wouldn't happen. Cars don't typically win races with unconcious drivers.
 
You guys seem to be under the impression that if the rules were lifted, teams would immediately build cars that caused their drivers to pass out in the middle of turn 1. That wouldn't happen. Cars don't typically win races with unconcious drivers.
During two eras, F1 nearly became this dangerous: During the end of ground-effect era (1981-1982) of GP cars, the cars were designed to suck down to the track with the car acting as one huge wing. The cars used a very small amount of suspension travel for the aim of incredible cornering speeds; the driver didn't really lift, he just planted his right foot on the gas pedal and the car gained even more downforce through the turns, sort of the opposite of the way a car would normally behave when entering a turn. Yet, the incredible downforce produced by the car could actually do just that. Since the tracks were not perfectly smooth and usually not completely flat, the driver endured a great bit of beating up due to G-force loading during cornering. Heck, even the flat and featureless circuits made up for that by having incredibly hot weather.

During the early-1990's F1 cars were also gaining more and more aerodynamic as well as mechanical grip, and thus many drvers were complaining of "blacking-out" in some high-speed corners of F1 courses. A reduction in tire grip as well as various restrictions on aerodynamics were enforced; some were employed as methods to keep cars closer together, but it is more likely that it made overtaking more difficult since stying in the slipstream of another car caused a disruption of airflow during braking. Others just speculated the current crop of drivers just couldn't drive, or were merely in it for the points, if not the overall win...but that's another story.

Sure, I'd like to see F1 be an all-out, technological tour-de-force. But the fact remains that auto racing, doesn't provide much in the way of technological support to road-going cars, with the exception of a handful of high-priced, limited-production cars that are impractical in most types of real-world driving conditions, save track days. If Grand Prix cars could have less restrictions on speeds, cornering, design, et cetera, then it is quite possible you'll be stuck with four cars left on the grid to vie for three podium positions. The McLaren-RedBull-Honda-Mercedes-Renault partnership would field two drivers in cars that might get their drivers fired during qualifying for running over a curb; lest they damage an underbody winglet that costs $7.5 million, since it had to spend lots of R&D time in 5 wind tunnels during the past week. However, the Ferrari-BMW-Spyker-Shadow-Super Aguri would issue a spy satellite to see what the competition was driving, and would intercept the telemetry of the other team in real-time. Stirling Moss would be shaking his head, that's for sure.

An all-out, no rules series was once created: Group 7 [wikipedia]Can-Am[/wikipedia]. The cars had no engine nor weight limits, no aerodynamic limits, just 2-seat sports-car, closed-wheel designs. And McLaren ran away with whole thing with the M6/M8 for 4 years until Porsche dominated them in return with the 917s. After 1974, it turned into a series in which old Indy and F1-car designs went into diabetic comas by the hands of shade-tree bodyshop repairmen.
 
so what we have accomplished here is that the cars would have to be very very quick, and be able to keep the driver awake/alive with all the punishment his body would take. what danoff said is quite right, cars dont win races with unconcious drivers, maybe they could use the g suits that pilots use. i dont know, maybe more of them could get in the gym and give themselves bodies better suited to the needs of driving such cars.
one thing is certain though, it would be bloody cool to see, that is all.
 
thats the truth, all things aside(gall my big brother used to do the same thing when i speculated) It would be the glory of on road driving, much like the old group b rally days. I personally dont wanna drive anything faster than JGTC ever...
 
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