Alternatives Shopping and Understanding the Competition

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JohnBM01

JohnBM01

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I'll be surprised if I don't get at least two responses out of "M5Power" or somebody. Why so? It's because this thread isn't related to just a certain type of car, but in terms of knowing the competition before laying down the cash for the automobile. This is about learning to shop for alternatives.

I am not an car buyer. After watching shows like "Car and Driver Television" and "MotorWeek," I am introduced to all sorts of automobiles ranging from compacts, to luxury cars, to sports sedans, to trucks, to SUVs of every designation, and even at times- supercars and priceless exotics. Sometimes I ask myself, "if I really want this car, would I be better off getting this other machine?" Some people probably don't want to shop around, some others just don't look at the competition. Some others probably don't care about the competition either because the buyer is COMPLETELY confident that it's better than any other machine in its class, or just don't pay attention to others in its class.

As an example, "MotorWeek" talked about the recently-released Chevrolet HHR. The host, John Davis, said that the HHR would be in line to woo in fans of the old-school-cool Chrysler PT Cruiser, and the fans of the Scion xB. My thing is, I like the PT Cruiser. I thought the HHR was pretty ugly at first, but I kind of like it now. I've supported the Scion xB, but I don't know any xB fans who would like having the HHR. You can never be absolutely sure. Whatever you love most isn't really going to be the outright favorite.

You can go on with "do I really want a Toyota Camry, or a Corolla, maybe?" The thing is, how many consumers really admit that they look around for the best driving experience, the cheapest but best deal, or anything like that? Maybe if someone wanted a newer Toyota Avalon, the person probably doesn't care about any other machines in its class that may be better than the Avalon. Like myself, I thought a Scion tC would be pretty nice when I get a license. May not be the best, but something I probably wouldn't mind having if I was a driver. You know, a functional, personal car of mine. Either that or maybe a Mini. Something cool that can last with me, and that I think is fun. I'm a sporty and cool guy, shouldn't my car choices be that too? How about some replies, people?
 
I agree with the end.
When buying a car, I'd like to get something I like to drive and something to relax in.
 
JohnBM01
You can go on with "do I really want a Toyota Camry, or a Corolla, maybe?" The thing is, how many consumers really admit that they look around for the best driving experience, the cheapest but best deal, or anything like that? Maybe if someone wanted a newer Toyota Avalon, the person probably doesn't care about any other machines in its class that may be better than the Avalon. Like myself, I thought a Scion tC would be pretty nice when I get a license. May not be the best, but something I probably wouldn't mind having if I was a driver. You know, a functional, personal car of mine. Either that or maybe a Mini. Something cool that can last with me, and that I think is fun. I'm a sporty and cool guy, shouldn't my car choices be that too? How about some replies, people?
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Mini's really cool. One of my coworkers took my advice and picked a British Racing Green one. It's such a classy color for Minis.

Your "Camry or Corolla" thing's really funny, because I did that with Honda and Nissan, last two times. In '98, I went to go buy a Civic, but once I saw the new Accords(just had arrived, first time I saw'em), I ended up getting that. In '03, I shopped between Sentra SE-R and Altima 2.5s.
 
I'd like to add my opinion, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to address. What's the actual question?
 
Duke
I'd like to add my opinion, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to address. What's the actual question?
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I do like John's enthusiasm and admire his unorthodox approach to thread creation, but i often find myself in your predicament - the subject seems juicy, but i never really understand whats been asked of us. :dunce:

E55Power
Real men drive classic Minis.
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...real men don't fit in classic Minis :sly:
 
Well i have a honda civic - im looking to buy a new car within two years.

Ive searched around - and it came down to three cars

1.Audi S3
2.Honda Civic Type-r
3.Honda Integra Type-r

I then asked myself different question.

What am i looking for in my next car?

The answer being - Looks, Reliability, Handling, Cost, Running Costs and Maintenance and Performance.

The first two is in all three the cost was a different matter being the Cheapest = Integra on many things being Running costs and the actual car. I read a few reviews on the web and integra had the best ones.

Another plus about the Integra is the fact it holds its value better than the other two as the are rare in the UK.

So thats the way i looked at my three similar choices.

So im sticking by my guns and will be saving for an Integra.

👍

Barry
 
Maybe he is asking to offer your opinion on weather you shop for a car and car with a deal/car that wasn't the one you had orignally thought you would buy or if you are the type of person who falls in love with one car (for whatever the reasoning) and have tunnel vision on only that car until it yours.

So the question is: Do you shop till you find what is right for you? Or do you see a car, buy it, and ignore all others in its class?

Me answering that question:
I have done both. When I bought my S10 Xtreme, it was purely based on love. I never looked at any other compact truck in its class, and when I went to buy it, I never once test drove it. I signed, and drove off the lot for the first time.

Now when I bought my Mazda, I did look around. When I decided to switch to a 4 door sedan, I wanted it to fit what I though was my image at the time. I also wanted it to be fairly priced. When I finally narrowed it down, it was between the SRT-4 and the 6. The 6 ended up winning because of the professional career my life is climbing towards.

With my unanounced recent purchase, it was back to love. ;)

He also might be looking for advice? Like which is the best way to go when buying a car?

Most people will say, shop shop, shop! It does sound like the obvisous advice. But IMO if there is a vechile that gets your blood pumping for whatever reason, you are not going to be happy unless you own that car! When making a commit thats worth 15000-40000 dollars, you better get what you want, and try not to settle!

Of course when getting older, and the family starts forming, settling is apart of being good to your families needs and not yours.

Hope that helps!
 
I agree. I think there are different people that are looking for different things out of a car. If you're on this website, you probably have a sportier outlook than the average buyer. And you probably have a much better idea what you would really like to be driving, whether you can afford it or not. Most people probably don't have a car they're dying for.

Having said that, unless you're getting that car you've been dying for, there are probably a couple options that would fit what you're looking for perfectly (2 door/4 door. FF/FR/AWD, etc.), and they probably deserve some exploring. I wouldn't expect a lot of cross shopping between vettes and Porsches, but you actually DO get more of that than you'd expect. And you should get a decent amount for most other cars, even for higher end cars (CTS/530/Lexus 430, G35/330i/IS300/RX-8?, etc). I would think that even for people that have their hearts set on something, should be able to find great alternatives, and be willing to try them out.

I've been dying for another full size Chevy or GMC truck, but the Hemi gets equal (or better, but close) power and mileage, and I like the 4 doors (especially the short rear doors) much better than the 2+2 (suicide doors) on the Chevy, or the 4 full size doors on the 4 door version. And the inside layout, while different, is acceptable in wither truck. Similarly, I'd like to get a 98 M3 sedan, maybe a little newer coupe, and a 2001 M5 later when I can afford one. But the G35 is much cheaper than a new M3, and by the time I can afford one, will be stiff competition for the similar performance of an M3. Same with the M45 and the CTS-V--way less, and pretty close on the performance I'm looking for. And plenty nice for carrying my sorry butt around. So I'll try them all out for sure before I make my decision. And who knows which one I'll end up getting. But, I will not be cross shopping when I get my Z06 (someday). I know what I want, and it's not up for debate.
 
Thanks for the kind words, people.

The issue I wanted to explore is if people really shop around for certain cars. The premise behind this thread is about learning how to actually shop around for certain cars. If you like a certain car, do you try to look at other cars in class, or simply stay with your favorite?

To better clarify the situation I'm trying to address, let's say you're in the market for a trendy sport compact. The car you'd love to buy (for example) is the Dodge Neon SRT-4. As a consumer, do you actually look at the competition to get the most satisfying purchase for your money? Do you try to look for cars in its class like the Ford Focus and the Chevrolet Cobalt? All I'm trying to suggest here is the topic of looking for a car to buy, while at the same, look at the competition. The premise is that if you like a certain car, you'll have to ask yourself, "I know I like the (manufacturer 1) (car name 1), but would I feel just as satisfied if I bought the (manufacturer 2) (car name 2)?" Or to use specific examples, "I know I like the Chevrolet Silverado, but would I be as satisfied if I bought the Toyota Tundra, the Ford F-150, or even a Dodge Ram?"

That's where the "alternatives shopping" comes in. This is the premise that if you like a certain car, you'll probably be happier, or much happier, if you bought a comparable automobile in class. Do people really shop for alternatives? Do people really care about any alternative vehicles? Then too, do people really know what cars are in class before deciding what the best car for one's money is? This is more of a general interest thread about purchasing automobiles. And again, thanks for the kind words.

Carry on.
 
JohnBM01
Thanks for the kind words, people.

The issue I wanted to explore is if people really shop around for certain cars. The premise behind this thread is about learning how to actually shop around for certain cars. If you like a certain car, do you try to look at other cars in class, or simply stay with your favorite?

To better clarify the situation I'm trying to address, let's say you're in the market for a trendy sport compact. The car you'd love to buy (for example) is the Dodge Neon SRT-4. As a consumer, do you actually look at the competition to get the most satisfying purchase for your money? Do you try to look for cars in its class like the Ford Focus and the Chevrolet Cobalt? All I'm trying to suggest here is the topic of looking for a car to buy, while at the same, look at the competition. The premise is that if you like a certain car, you'll have to ask yourself, "I know I like the (manufacturer 1) (car name 1), but would I feel just as satisfied if I bought the (manufacturer 2) (car name 2)?" Or to use specific examples, "I know I like the Chevrolet Silverado, but would I be as satisfied if I bought the Toyota Tundra, the Ford F-150, or even a Dodge Ram?"

That's where the "alternatives shopping" comes in. This is the premise that if you like a certain car, you'll probably be happier, or much happier, if you bought a comparable automobile in class. Do people really shop for alternatives? Do people really care about any alternative vehicles? Then too, do people really know what cars are in class before deciding what the best car for one's money is? This is more of a general interest thread about purchasing automobiles. And again, thanks for the kind words.

Carry on.
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I guess what I was saying is that I don't think you can really generalize. There may be classes of cars that a certain person may be more flexible about, but some that they aren't. Take the trucks, for example. I think the Tundra, despite Toyota trying to toughen up it's image, is still soft. I know its not, really, but it still seems that way to me. Since I'm not your average SUV stereotyped buyer, and I really do take vehicles off road, I'm not really interested. I'm a Chevy guy, so Ford will never be an option, no matter if it put out 500 lb ft and 500 hp, and the whole truck was made out of titanium and sold for $15k brand new (well, actually, MAYBE then). Nissan has sold me on the Titan's toughness--I just really can't stand "bubble cab." I've heard great things, and know several seveal former Chevy die hards who have bought two Titans in a row now. Bubble cab is just too much to get over. So, despite there being a lot of options out there (Great options, too), my selection is down to Chevy/GMC, or Dodge. My internal M3/G35 debate goes much the same way--there ARE other cars out there that I SHOULD look at, but those 2 are my favorites, and while Doug's CLK55 is certainly tempting, and might even get me into a test drive in one, that is as far afield as I'd roam on that one.


We need to realize that WE on GTPlanet are not normal. Why ANYONE would buy a FF car when there was a similar FR available for similar cost/performance is completely beyond me. But Doug tells me that most people really don't care about which wheels drive a car. Most are looking for value/features. Most buy Mercs or BMWs because of their PERCEPTION of what they are, not because they are truly driving enthusiasts that favor RWD. I guess that means that we take a lot of things into account when we buy cars. Most people SHOULD shop around more. Members of this forum, for the most part, are driving enthusiasts, and should have an idea of what's available and what characterizes those vehicles, and what kind of driving dynamic they're looking for. The GTO, WRX, RX-8, and Evo are all in theory in the same general category as the G35 and M3 as far as driving dynamics go, but I've narrowed it down based on a mix of looks, numbers, features, and style (classy/boy racer).

I think it really comes down to how much love you have for a particular vehicle (or make, not just model). I really like the G35 and M3, but it isn't love, so I'm not committed to either one. But I've loved vettes since my dad got a '78 when I was like 7 (yeah, it wasn't quite brand new, but it was sure cool!). I won't look at Porsche, or anything else for that matter (except in my rear-view mirror :sly: ). I've loved Chevy trucks forever, and I know how dependable they are too, but I don't like the new angry eye headlights, and I don't hate Dodge, so I think they have enough unique to offer that I may be pursuaded. If you're passionate about something, I dont' think you should feel compelled to shop around. If you're not, or less passionate about the car than about your niche (2 door, 4 (usable) seat sports car, rather than M3 lover), you may be pleasantly surprised.
 
I think what people are looking for changes slightly when you start talking about the M3 - those people are all enthusiasts. No one buys an M3 for acceleration, so handling does matter to those people quite a bit.

People should care about class competitors. I hate it when people are completely stuck on wanting a certain car, especially for the wrong reasons.
 
Nah - those M3s are legit.

And since we're discussing M3s, why not have a look at every single one ever produced?








:D
 
There's no E46 M3 sedan?! Rats!

Ask Doug how I shop for cars.
 
Duke
There's no E46 M3 sedan?! Rats!

Ask Doug how I shop for cars.
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NOPE! Kinda sucks. People love the E36 Sedan--you'd think they'd keep it up. Maybe it bites into 5 series sales too much. That's my guess. Same reason they stopped offering dual zone heat/AC on the 3 series--they wanted to reserve it for the 5 series (for the upper end model). No matter that Pontiacs and trucks have dual zone these days. :rolleyes:

Are you not counting the CSL as a different model? Or did you just not have a handy picture of one...at night?
 
The US never received the CSL, although its wheels are optional as part of a performance package on E46 models - in fact, the E46 convertible shown has that package and, therefore, those wheels. I guess that's as close as we'll get in North America.

Duke shops for cars by going to Lexus dealers on his lunch break and eliminating competent, brilliant feats of engineering because they haven't got driver seat memory.

:D
 
Not eliminated! Just bumped down off the "oh my god I've got to buy one of these things now before the asteroid hits us and they all go away" list. It's still on the "definitely hoping this would work out" list.
 
Folks, he eliminated a car because it didn't have a driver seat memory. Come on - who do you believe: me, good ol' Uncle M5Power, or the admin, harsh, cold "Duke" who forced Dudebusta away?
 
Oh...Duke, so you're the one.
Actually, Driver seat memory is really nice. In the Cayenne, we have 3 different people driving it all the time, so it's great to have 3 memory spots. Huge convenience.
 
i buy based on the most i can get from my budget.

when i bought my benz i was comparing a 300E to an E30 M3 to a volvo 850 wagon with a touch of subaru outback thrown in.

i eventually settled on the merc because
* i used to be an apprentive motor mechanic at the mercedes dealer
* it was bigger
* the BMW would have needed expensive maintenance. not repair, but maintenance.
* volvo was wrong wheel drive
* only ratty outbacks were in my price range

yeah, i got it cheap
 
In terms of competition, one I've been thinking a lot of is when I keep hearing something like "why have a Porsche when you can have a Corvette?" I'm talking sports cars now, but just something I've always wondered. You know what you're getting out of a Porsche, so it's almost a no-brainer even thinking about what a Porsche has to offer as opposed to a Corvette. Then too, a Corvette is still an "I mean business" automobile regardless.

For those of who you find equal or greater satisfaction in a car's rival, how do you normally feel after finding out there is a car as good, if not better, than the car you initially loved? The way I think about this is that you can have any car in the world. It can range from a Chevrolet Aveo all the way up to a Ferrari Enzo. Automotive dealers or automotive magazines won't make the decision for you all the time. The premise behind all this is for the best value for your dollar while providing the most satisfaction of owning a such automobile. To me, I think if you're going to look for automobiles, it's probably best to take a look at what other autos offer before making a final decision. If it turns out that the car you've wanted all this time ends up being the best choice, or one you feel personally happy with, that's your call. If there's a rival car that you are convinced about and seems almost perfect to you, then again... that's your call.

Anyone wants to continue? You have my permission.
 
Since I just bought a new car let me state how I shopped for a new car. I already knew that I wanted and needed; sporty, fuel economy, good looks, reliability, fun factor, and last but not least cost of ownership.

Using these as requirements I looked at the following cars that I thought would do well in some of the catagories and was hoping to find a car that fit the most and here's the list of cars I test drove and researched.

*2003 G35 Sedan
*2003 Audi A4
*2003 Volkswagon Golf GTi
*2002 Trans Am WS6/Camaro SS
*2003 Mustang GT coupe
*2002 Jaguar S-Type 3.0 V6
*2004 Nissan Maxima 3.5 SE
*2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
*2005 Ford Focus ZX5 (4 door)
*2000 BMW 323i

I chose the 2005 Ford Focus because it met most of my requirements. The Jag, G35, and Maxima were close but I chose the Focus ZX5 SES mainly because of fuel economy, features, fun factor, and cost of ownership being less. Was it my first choice? No, the Audi or Jaguar were. But it doesn't help I got a new top of the line Focus for $12k with a 75,000mi bumper to bumper warranty. :sly:
 

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