Amazed by the McLaren MP4/4!

[Syl035]

I just wanted to share my thoughts on this kinda unexpected new entry!

I was mainly surprised by the amount of details and the optionnal parts you can fit the car with to replicate some specifications of the MP4/4 (Suzuka for example).

I even saw those body parts had an impact on the min/max aero setup!

Also on the cockpit view, so you know what all those numbers mean? On the top right is just the turbo pressure, but for the numbers on the bottom, I have no idea..

The handling of that car feels great, much easier to handle than in the F1 Series game and also easier than the Lotus 97T: with less turbo pressure it makes it more predictibale

I am only disappointed by the absence of a tunable ECU for an F1 car... It is too bad we can't replicate the power for the qualification sessions...

Do you think we could get a Custom ECU with the special parts?


What are your thoughts on this new entry to the series?

 

[Nathan88]

I don’t think they could alter power in qualifying in ‘88. The turbo boost restriction was to balance with the NA cars.

The attention to detail on the MP4/4 is great. That’s what attracts me to Gran Turismo. It feels like you own the real thing.

 

[Syl035]

Oh yes, I think you're right about the power! Eventhough they always reduce power for the race I think it was simply done with the fuel mapping which we can also do in GT7.

I personnaly really like the attention to details some people have while making the liveries! They even made replica's of some Ferrari from that era that look okay.

I would have loved to make a custom race with all those liveries but each car sould cost 8 millions so it's almost impossible..

 

[Spydersmiley]

Is it possible to tune it down to 800 pp (by adding weigth / using power restrictor) so that it could be used for Sardegna?

 

[Syl035]

I quicly tried but could not figure out how. Got stuck with 830PP on Racing Hard..

If someone has a tune for that, it would be appreciated!

 

[Spydersmiley]

Assuming it has the adjustable suspension, you could try bringing down pp to 800 by increasing front and rear hight?

 

[05XR8]

I posted this in the Tuning thread.

Just tried Sardegna with the MP4/4.
View attachment 1187227
View attachment 1187228

Only parts available are all tyres, Ballast, power restrictor and fully custom transmission(haven’t applied that yet).

Tyre wear was at half by end of Lap 8. Fuel was .3 laps left. Pitted for tyres and fuel(100% was 8.1 laps). Ran the whole race at Fuel 1. Lap times were 1:37-1:38 all race. Slowed to 1:39 for Laps 5 & 6 to eke out a bit more before pitting.
Finished the race with half worn tyres and .9 Laps of fuel.

 

[The OG]

Can't wait to buy this along with all the other new cars... currently grinding LeMans right now... I have a little over 5 million so I got a few races to do...

 

[pedrocor]

I don’t think they could alter power in qualifying in ‘88. The turbo boost restriction was to balance with the NA cars.

The attention to detail on the MP4/4 is great. That’s what attracts me to Gran Turismo. It feels like you own the real thing.

Oh yes, I think you're right about the power! Eventhough they always reduce power for the race I think it was simply done with the fuel mapping which we can also do in GT7.

I personnaly really like the attention to details some people have while making the liveries! They even made replica's of some Ferrari from that era that look okay.

I would have loved to make a custom race with all those liveries but each car sould cost 8 millions so it's almost impossible..

They restrict the performance by putting a boost limit of 2.5 bar, instead of 4.0 bar in the year before, putting indeed the boost values near the ones used on race mode, but also the fuel allowance, 150 liters for all race without refuelling, instead of 215 liters for NA engines.

No fuel limit and special qualifying engines meant they kept having an edge on qualifying (in Spa the FL was 7 seconds off pace of pole position).

 

[MrHorsepower]

Assuming it has the adjustable suspension, you could try bringing down pp to 800 by increasing front and rear hight?

Hope this can help

 

[Syl035]

Wow thanks for these infos guys, I'll try those setups, I am sure that I'll spend some time with this car trying to beat my lap times.

I tried it stock in the Nurb, it is fast indeed!

 

[snc]

Nice comparison on different tracks

 

[Syl035]

I just played a bit with the power restrictor and suspension and I managed to get to the 800PP.

It's a nice touch to see that the turbo pressure goes lower when you restrict the power!

I managed to do a 1:57:218 at Spa with racing soft and some changes to the aero, I find it really nice for an F1 from 1988! I did a 2:01:522 with the Lotus 97T (not sure what tyre I used and if ut was stock though)

 

[R3V]

I'm still amazed that the 787B is seemingly still the best car to grind with at Sardegna, unless the last patch nerfed it. I'll see if I get a chance to grind credits for this. Haven't played the game in months.

 

[Nielsen]

It feels like you own the real thing.

I’m curious why some people feel this way. There is no interactive element to the cars whatsoever in the garage view, and car selection is organized in a grid layout that screams software interface. Players can keep track of mileage, maintain, modify and tune the cars, but most of this isn’t unique to Gran Turismo.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no complaints with the ways any of this works in the game, but sense of car ownership? I think this would require a much more immersive interface combined with interactive car models.

 

[Syl035]

I’m curious why some people feel this way. There is no interactive element to the cars whatsoever in the garage view, and car selection is organized in a grid layout that screams software interface. Players can keep track of mileage, maintain, modify and tune the cars, but most of this isn’t unique to Gran Turismo.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no complaints with the ways any of this works in the game, but sense of car ownership? I think this would require a much more immersive interface combined with interactive car models.

Personally, I would not say it feels like you own the car but more like you get to know it: with all those details and setup you can make + trying to improve lap times, this could feel like knowing the car better: when I see a car in real life, I often want to say "it's a nice car, the handling is amazing, eventhough I've never driven one in real life.

But even that feeling is not exclusive to Gran Turismo. But you don't get that feeling with more arcade racing games I would say.

 

[Nathan88]

I’m curious why some people feel this way. There is no interactive element to the cars whatsoever in the garage view, and car selection is organized in a grid layout that screams software interface. Players can keep track of mileage, maintain, modify and tune the cars, but most of this isn’t unique to Gran Turismo.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no complaints with the ways any of this works in the game, but sense of car ownership? I think this would require a much more immersive interface combined with interactive car models.

I grew up watching many of these cars in grainy VHS quality footage. Before the advent of YouTube so much of that was lost to time.

So to see these 80’s & 90’s cars replicated in perfect detail, with perfect materials, feels special. Seeing the carbon fibre weave, the alcantara covered steering wheel. The working dials, the swaying cables, the alternative aero parts. That’s the sort of stuff I geek out at.

It also makes me appreciate older cars like the 917K & Skyline Super Silhouette. Seeing the metal work, with all it’s imperfections, the rivets, the depth & accuracy of the paintwork. It feels like you’re viewing the real thing rather than a videogame interpretation.

 

[Nielsen]

I grew up watching many of these cars in grainy VHS quality footage. Before the advent of YouTube so much of that was lost to time.

So to see these 80’s & 90’s cars replicated in perfect detail, with perfect materials, feels special. Seeing the carbon fibre weave, the alcantara covered steering wheel. The working dials, the swaying cables, the alternative aero parts. That’s the sort of stuff I geek out at.

It also make me appreciate older cars like the 917K & Skyline Super Silhouette. Seeing the metal work, with all it’s imperfections, the rivets, the depth & accuracy of the paintwork. It feels like you’re viewing the real thing rather than a video game interpretation.

All this I agree with, but I still don’t feel a great sense of car ownership in GT7. Purchasing them feels like getting rid of barriers, and owning them feels like progress. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[Samus]

Hope this can help

 

[MrHorsepower]

LOL! 😂😂😂

 

[mattikake]

I had a quick go at monza - ironically the only race it didn't win - it's very tame compared to the t1500.

The old problem with GT7 is finding something to race. There is no AI race available or you have to detune it to race AI tin tops (wtf?), most players can't afford it yet so there are few lobbies. I found 2 all day with a total of 4 players including myself. Communities take ages to set up a league and the cost of the car restricts numbers..

So I have the car. Did about 5 lonely laps of monza, then went back to driving public lobby gr3 and gr4 cars with the "friends" box ticked. Very quickly got bored with it.

GT7 is not even a very fulfilling car collector game. Why didn't PD at least create a functional scenario race to go with it? Cars only become legendary when they are used, not sat on a grid display representation of a fictional garage. How is this "fun"?

 

[Syl035]

I had a quick go at monza - ironically the only race it didn't win - it's very tame compared to the t1500.

The old problem with GT7 is finding something to race. There is no AI race available or you have to detune it to race AI tin tops (wtf?), most players can't afford it yet so there are few lobbies. I found 2 all day with a total of 4 players including myself. Communities take ages to set up a league and the cost of the car restricts numbers..

So I have the car. Did about 5 lonely laps of monza, then went back to driving public lobby gr3 and gr4 cars with the "friends" box ticked. Very quickly got bored with it.

GT7 is not even a very fulfilling car collector game. Why didn't PD at least create a functional scenario race to go with it? Cars only become legendary when they are used, not sat on a grid display representation of a fictional garage. How is this "fun"?

Yeah, I understand, I just hope they make suitable races with this car and maybe involving the Lotus 97T since they seem to be on the same level of performance.

I hope to see maybe a new batch of missions including this McLaren and/or new races dedicated to it.

 

[Syl035]

Does anyone knows what are the number related to on the dashboard?
The red line is the RPM
Top right in red is the Turbo Pressure
I don't know what "NE" stands for
The number next to it is the RPM again
And for the others numbers, I have no idea!

"TH29.7" ?? It goes "14.7" on engine brake which makes me think of air/fuel ideal mix. And goes up to 29.7
"TW85" ?? This number doesn't seem to change
"TO10PO"?? This number doesn't seem to change
"763VB" ?? Goes from "403" up to "792", seems to be related to the RPM, maybe it is oil pressure? From 4 bar up to almost 8 bar?
"12.5". ?? This number doesn't seem to change

Any idea on what that might be?

 

[jhuizinz]

Does anyone knows what are the number related to on the dashboard?
The red line is the RPM
Top right in red is the Turbo Pressure
I don't know what "NE" stands for
The number next to it is the RPM again
And for the others numbers, I have no idea!

"TH29.7" ?? It goes "14.7" on engine brake which makes me think of air/fuel ideal mix. And goes up to 29.7
"TW85" ?? This number doesn't seem to change
"TO10PO"?? This number doesn't seem to change
"763VB" ?? Goes from "403" up to "792", seems to be related to the RPM, maybe it is oil pressure? From 4 bar up to almost 8 bar?
"12.5". ?? This number doesn't seem to change

Any idea on what that might be?

I really want to know also, purely out of curiosity... It'll probably require tracking down a 1980's Formula 1 anorak/fanatic to get this info though, or one of McLarens engineers haha.

I'm going to contest your a/f ratio assessment though. 14.7 made me think of a/f too because of the whole stochiometric thing, but consider the turbo cars of this era were running almost pure toluene lmao so 14.7 no longer holds any relevance. I did a quick google and toluene/gasoline mixtures have a richer stochiometric ratio, linearly decreasing to ~13.5 for 100% toluene. Also under load/throttle the a/f ratio should be richer than stochiometric, so perhaps 10 or 11-ish again considering toluene. The ratio would also lean out during deceleration, maybe to 16ish? Just taking guesses for figures here, however even if the numbers are wrong a/f ratio generally decreases with engine load, not the opposing behaviour we see here...

Guna be that guy and disagree with the oil pressure thing too lmao. The engines are manufactured with clearances suited for a specific/designated oil operating temperature & pressure. As such a well deigned oil system will operate at constant pressure for a given temperature, instead varying flow if required under different engine conditions.

All that aside, I have no better suggestions... Probably a fuel weight/capacity somewhere? if they switched between different maps on the run back then there could be a program number?

Spoiler: Edit: OMG LOOK WHAT I FOUND!

No luck finding a free online pdf version yet though

 

[Samus]

Does anyone knows what are the number related to on the dashboard?
The red line is the RPM
Top right in red is the Turbo Pressure
I don't know what "NE" stands for
The number next to it is the RPM again
And for the others numbers, I have no idea!

"TH29.7" ?? It goes "14.7" on engine brake which makes me think of air/fuel ideal mix. And goes up to 29.7
"TW85" ?? This number doesn't seem to change
"TO10PO"?? This number doesn't seem to change
"763VB" ?? Goes from "403" up to "792", seems to be related to the RPM, maybe it is oil pressure? From 4 bar up to almost 8 bar?
"12.5". ?? This number doesn't seem to change

Any idea on what that might be?

Probably noted in the Haynes manual they made for the car, although they're rather pricey to acquire these days.

 

[Syl035]

I have that book actually but no info about that dashboard unfortunately.

A good book though if you're interested, the FW14B one and Lotus edition are nice too!

You can wait for a price drop and look at different amazon websites, it will be cheaper!

I could post pictures of the book if you like

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Went ahead and dropped the 8 million on it and can say it desperately needs its own event to really enjoy it in stock form. Detuning to 800pp to run at Sardegna is extremely underwhelming experience. All of my Gr.2 cars are easily 3-4 seconds faster per lap consistently and much more fuel efficient. I had to run FM3 and FM4 to be able to 1 stop the McLaren where Gr.2 cars I can run FM2 and 1 stop.
This car seems to currently only be good for 1 thing; custom races.

 

[Syl035]

Just to confirm that there is not enough info on the book about the dashboard info.

Still a really nice book though!

 

[mattikake]

Went ahead and dropped the 8 million on it and can say it desperately needs its own event to really enjoy it in stock form. Detuning to 800pp to run at Sardegna is extremely underwhelming experience. All of my Gr.2 cars are easily 3-4 seconds faster per lap consistently and much more fuel efficient. I had to run FM3 and FM4 to be able to 1 stop the McLaren where Gr.2 cars I can run FM2 and 1 stop.
This car seems to currently only be good for 1 thing; custom races.

There will be one daily race and that will be your lot i bet.

 

[OldandSlow]

I'm leaning toward skipping this time around. I may just wait until it has some companion cars in some F1-specific races.