America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
In this case it came from the horse's mouth, not its arse. However I appreciate where you might get them mixed up.
Hmm.
Interesting. Most data I've come across - regarding everything from spending on education and social programmes in predominantly black neighbourhoods, through to rates of incarceration and lethal violence from police - would seem to disagree. And in the UK too, not just the USA - but more so in the USA.
Do you have data that supports your view that this discrimination is imaginary?
Also, notably, as someone who does not receive live television nor lives in the USA, I don't listen to or watch MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc. Nor would I view such things as data.
- 34,954
- NoDak
- Cy-Fi
The US is 59.3% White versus 12.6% Black.
Race and ethnicity in the United States - Wikipedia
196 White people have been shot by police this year versus 124 Black people.
People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2023 | Statista
The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.
www.statista.com
So sure, there were more White people shot but that's expected when they make up the majority of the population.
So because 1% of the population gets paid well and is now magically immune from racism, the other 99% just have to deal with it?
- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Per the same notion floated recently by another member relating to trans suicide numbers, it's rate that's relevant - and black people are shot by cops at more than twice the rate of any other race. Which is not even close.
There's close to five times as many white people in the USA than black people. If disproportionate treatment of races wasn't a thing, there'd be five times as many white people in the USA shot dead by cops than black people; instead it's close to 1.9 times as many.
White vs Hispanic sees around three times the white population (just over) and around 1:1 the killed-by-cop rate (just under). White vs "Other" is about five times the white population and 2.5 times the killed-by-cop rate.
Black people have the highest rate of being killed by cops - just under six deaths per million per annum (compare to 2.5 for Hispanic, just over 2 for White, just under 1 for "Other").
- 13,140
- Seattle-ish
This forum is kind of hilarious right now because probably a year or two ago, I blocked someone (can’t even remember who anymore) for being very dumb but thinking they were very smart. So I’m not seeing their Very Smart Posts, just everyone’s reactions to them. Let me guess, someone has been shrinking and transforming into a corncob all day?
Joey D
Premium
- 46,950
- Boyne Falls, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
So it's not just DeSantis that want answers over the Florida State CFP snub:
U.S. Sen. Rick Scott: I stand with FSU in demanding transparency from the CFP committee
'I won’t stand around and say nothing while people in my state get screwed,' the U.S. senator and two-term former governor says.
www.tallahassee.com
- 17,026
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
"Black people deserve to be shot more by police because they're doing all the crimes" is definitely a take.
www.statista.com
www.statista.com
en.wikipedia.org
The rate is out of proportion to the number of people being shot. "It's not even close".
Prevalence rate of violent crime, by ethnicity U.S. 2022 | Statista
In 2022, the prevalence of violent crime increased for all races in the United States in comparison to the previous year.
www.statista.com
Police shootings: rate by ethnicity U.S. 2024 | Statista
The rate of fatal police shootings in the United States shows large differences based on ethnicity.
www.statista.com
Racial pay gap in the United States - Wikipedia
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- 5,019
- Nor Cal
- sturk0167
"Black people deserve to be shot more by police because they're doing all the crimes" is definitely a take.
The rate is out of proportion to the number of people being shot. "It's not even close".View attachment 1309887Prevalence rate of violent crime, by ethnicity U.S. 2022 | Statista
In 2022, the prevalence of violent crime increased for all races in the United States in comparison to the previous year.
View attachment 1309889Police shootings: rate by ethnicity U.S. 2024 | Statista
The rate of fatal police shootings in the United States shows large differences based on ethnicity.
View attachment 1309891Racial pay gap in the United States - Wikipedia
- 17,026
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
The only bull **** around here is your groundless meme. Keep crying.
25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America
Research has extensively documented the differences between the Black and white experience in the US, from wealth and education to incarceration.www.businessinsider.com
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- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Yes.
You're literally not engaging with anyone at all, just chucking out poor takes and memes. I asked you - twice - for data supporting your point of view, and while others have done the legwork to provide data that contradicts it you've done nothing at all. Except call "********" on that data.
I'm not sure moderators were ever deemed to be impartial, but I'm neither a moderator nor moderating.
I don't know who my "ilk" is supposed to be - but this is yet another bad faith post.
You made a claim. Post data and evidence to back up that claim.
- 5,019
- Nor Cal
- sturk0167
- 13,140
- Seattle-ish
Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
en.wikipedia.org
Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia
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- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
What's odd is that this section of the forum tends towards (small l) libertarianism more than anything else...
Yes, it is. I mean, feel free to look it up but when you refuse to actually engage with a conversation, despite other people engaging with you - asking you questions and providing evidence about your point of view - you are acting in bad faith.
Again, if all you want to do is call "********", post gifs, and now latch onto forum moderation for some insane reason, you are not engaging.
Literally no idea.
I mean... I asked twice...
Other members have engaged with this and posted data that contradicts your view. Your response was not data to refute that, but a gif of someone saying "********". Bad faith.
- 5,019
- Nor Cal
- sturk0167
I said that systemic racism is a lie.
It's, perpetuated by those who want to get votes from people who are weak enough to play victim for the liberal elites who will promise them salvation.
None of the liberals mean what what they say. What have they actually done for you?
Here's the answer: Zero!
It's a game.
Everything they do is screwing up the USA.
I live here. I know what's going on. Their bull s is around me everyday. None of their crap is improving anything.
It's all going down the toilet, which is probably amusing to those like you, who are living in other countries.
Systemic racism can't actually be proven, so here's the perspective of a black man:
The conflict over slavery was: is it right or wrong? The conflict over segregation was: is it right or wrong? However, the conflict over systemic racism isn’t: is it right or wrong?
The conflict is: does systemic racism exist or not?
That is a fundamentally different question. Americans are not divided over whether systemic racism is right or wrong. They are divided over whether systemic racism exists or not.
It’s crucial to understand that. Failure to understand that distinction is the basis for much of the careless and destructive reactions to George Floyd’s murder.
George Floyd’s murder is a horrific injustice. But it isn’t evidence for systemic racism. In fact, there isn’t any evidence for systemic racism today. Because systemic racism doesn’t exist—not anymore.
That doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist anymore. Of course, it does. I’ve been racist against other people. And other people have been racist against me. Just like every kind of sin, racism will never end—not until Jesus returns.
Nevertheless, the concept of systemic racism today has become underlined by a form of cultural relativism, a concept defined by perceptions, not proof.
For instance, this is the popular definition of systemic racism today:
“Systemic racism consists of organizational culture, policies, directives, practices or procedures that exclude, displace or marginalize some racialized groups or create unfair barriers for them to access valuable benefits and opportunities. This is often the result of institutional biases in organizational culture, policies, directives, practices, and procedures that may appear neutral but have the effect of privileging some groups and disadvantaging others.”
Therefore, under that vague and subjective reasoning, racial disparities—and especially, racial perceptions—are the basis for identifying systemic racism. That, however, presents several logical and theological problems.
Under that definition, black people—not God—are the authority on what constitutes as racism or systemic racism. This is why Voddie Baucham defines social justice ideology or systemic racism theory as ethnic Gnosticism.
Systemic racism isn’t whatever I—as a black man—says it is. My perceptions are not proof. My experiences are not authoritative. I am not God.
We Christians shouldn’t abandon objective, biblical theology to embrace subjective, worldly philosophies. We need to remember what the Bible says about racism. We need to understand racism within its biblical category: partiality.
Therefore, if we’re going to accuse our governments of participating in systemic racism today, we should be able to list examples of systemic partiality against black people today. Otherwise, we’re guilty of dishonouring our governments and bearing false witness against them.
Social justice proponents are unable to list racist laws or policies to support their accusations, so they usually resort to perceptions and racial disparities as evidence for their accusations.
However, last year, I explained racial disparities between white people and black people are mostly a result of disparities concerning fatherlessness between white people and black people, not systemic racism. Nevertheless, Christians who embrace racial perceptions and racial disparities as evidence of systemic racism have set a destructive precedent for local churches.
It’s not accidental that evangelical social justice proponents are increasingly accusing local churches of complicity in systemic racism. By that standard for systemic racism, racial disparities and perceptions of racism by black Christians in local churches is evidence of systemic racism within local churches by white pastors and white church members.
Frankly, that standard for systemic racism is lazy and sinful reasoning. It lays the burden of proof on the accused, not the accuser. Systemic racism theory essentially demands groups to prove they’re not systemically racist—instead of demanding social justice proponents to prove the legitimacy of their accusations.
It’s shameful that so many otherwise reasonable people have accepted systemic racism fallacy as fact. How could a supposedly systemically racist nation like America elect a black person—twice—as its president? If America is systemically racist, wouldn’t that make Barack Obama complicit in racist oppression against black Americans? If racial disparities between white Americans and black Americans are a consequence of systemic racism against black people, how do we explain African immigrants to America experiencing similar socio-economic standings to white people?
And if systemic racism is real—if it isn’t merely a leftist political agenda—why are the only solutions to end racial disparities and supposed systemic racism socialistic?
Nevertheless, remember: there are fundamental differences between the questions over the conflicts of slavery, segregation, and systemic racism.
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- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
So... that's a "no" then?I said that systemic racism is a lie.
It's, perpetuated by those who want to get votes from people who are weak enough to play victim for the liberal elites who will promise them salvation.
None of the liberals mean what what they say. What have they actually done for you?
Here's the answer: Zero!
It's a game.
Everything they do is screwing up the USA.
I live here. I know what's going on. Their bull s is around me everyday. None of their crap is improving anything.
It's all going down the toilet, which is probably amusing to those like you, who are living in other countries.
Systemic racism can't actually be proven, so here's the perspective of a black man:
The conflict over slavery was: is it right or wrong? The conflict over segregation was: is it right or wrong? However, the conflict over systemic racism isn’t: is it right or wrong?
The conflict is: does systemic racism exist or not?
That is a fundamentally different question. Americans are not divided over whether systemic racism is right or wrong. They are divided over whether systemic racism exists or not.
It’s crucial to understand that. Failure to understand that distinction is the basis for much of the careless and destructive reactions to George Floyd’s murder.
George Floyd’s murder is a horrific injustice. But it isn’t evidence for systemic racism. In fact, there isn’t any evidence for systemic racism today. Because systemic racism doesn’t exist—not anymore.
That doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist anymore. Of course, it does. I’ve been racist against other people. And other people have been racist against me. Just like every kind of sin, racism will never end—not until Jesus returns.
Nevertheless, the concept of systemic racism today has become underlined by a form of cultural relativism, a concept defined by perceptions, not proof.
For instance, this is the popular definition of systemic racism today:
“Systemic racism consists of organizational culture, policies, directives, practices or procedures that exclude, displace or marginalize some racialized groups or create unfair barriers for them to access valuable benefits and opportunities. This is often the result of institutional biases in organizational culture, policies, directives, practices, and procedures that may appear neutral but have the effect of privileging some groups and disadvantaging others.”
Therefore, under that vague and subjective reasoning, racial disparities—and especially, racial perceptions—are the basis for identifying systemic racism. That, however, presents several logical and theological problems.
Under that definition, black people—not God—are the authority on what constitutes as racism or systemic racism. This is why Voddie Baucham defines social justice ideology or systemic racism theory as ethnic Gnosticism.
Systemic racism isn’t whatever I—as a black man—says it is. My perceptions are not proof. My experiences are not authoritative. I am not God.
We Christians shouldn’t abandon objective, biblical theology to embrace subjective, worldly philosophies. We need to remember what the Bible says about racism. We need to understand racism within its biblical category: partiality.
Therefore, if we’re going to accuse our governments of participating in systemic racism today, we should be able to list examples of systemic partiality against black people today. Otherwise, we’re guilty of dishonouring our governments and bearing false witness against them.
Social justice proponents are unable to list racist laws or policies to support their accusations, so they usually resort to perceptions and racial disparities as evidence for their accusations.
However, last year, I explained racial disparities between white people and black people are mostly a result of disparities concerning fatherlessness between white people and black people, not systemic racism. Nevertheless, Christians who embrace racial perceptions and racial disparities as evidence of systemic racism have set a destructive precedent for local churches.
It’s not accidental that evangelical social justice proponents are increasingly accusing local churches of complicity in systemic racism. By that standard for systemic racism, racial disparities and perceptions of racism by black Christians in local churches is evidence of systemic racism within local churches by white pastors and white church members.
Frankly, that standard for systemic racism is lazy and sinful reasoning. It lays the burden of proof on the accused, not the accuser. Systemic racism theory essentially demands groups to prove they’re not systemically racist—instead of demanding social justice proponents to prove the legitimacy of their accusations.
It’s shameful that so many otherwise reasonable people have accepted systemic racism fallacy as fact. How could a supposedly systemically racist nation like America elect a black person—twice—as its president? If America is systemically racist, wouldn’t that make Barack Obama complicit in racist oppression against black Americans? If racial disparities between white Americans and black Americans are a consequence of systemic racism against black people, how do we explain African immigrants to America experiencing similar socio-economic standings to white people?
And if systemic racism is real—if it isn’t merely a leftist political agenda—why are the only solutions to end racial disparities and supposed systemic racism socialistic?
Nevertheless, remember: there are fundamental differences between the questions over the conflicts of slavery, segregation, and systemic racism.
- 85,489
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Any data or evidence. There's certainly a lot of feelings in there, and quite a bit about the worship of a palestinian socialist for some reason, but nothing by way of actual evidence.
Surely there's some out there, given the myriad studies done into racial disparities from birth to death? I mean, I've seen a lot - covering maternal death rates, infant death rates, childhood poverty, childhood mortality, poverty, school investment, value-added education, social investment, college attendance, university attendance, police stop and search rates, police-involved shooting rates, police-involved death rates, medical outcomes from preventable diseases, medical outcomes from heritable diseases, medical outcomes from age-related diseases - and in every case the outcome is worse if you're black than if you're white, both in the UK and the USA. @UKMikey posted some of it.
But I guess none of that is systemic (despite all coming from the system of governance) because there was a black president seven years ago. He fixed it all and anything that still looks like systemic racism is just... black folk getting uppity?
