Annoying features that MUSTN'T implemented for next GT

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1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
AI is easy, but there's a catch:

1) AI immensely rubberbands when you reach the said 1st place in half of the GT League races. No matter how more powerful your car is, they'll always catch up
2) AI is aggressive, and it became even worse after the last update. I already lost count of how many times i've been punted, rammed, squashed into sidewalls etc. I got rammed on a straight a couple of times. A straight! We drive on a straight, i overtake the opponent, and he just veers and sideswipes me into the grass/wall/sandtrap. So bloody irritating
3) Complementing the previous catch: AI has zero awareness of their surroundings and drive strictly on the precalculated driving lines. They don't give a **** if your car appears on their way. If you overtake them from the outside on a corner and stick to the outside, giving them enough space on the inside, they'll still drive on the "out-in-out" trajectory and swipe you off the road like you are not even there. GT5's AI was much better in that regard
4) When games like PCars 2 offer qualifying modes before races and stuff, GTS's approach looks very outdated. Hell, even in GT5 you started from the middle of the pack in a proper 25-30 meters aside rolling start. And it was perfectly fine: if you were bad, you'd lose places, if you're good you'd win and if you were average, you'd stick in the middle. Here, you start every race dead last and the 1st place is 1 minute away from you, if not further

I hope GT7's AI will be much better. GTS'es is just broken af
AI being aggressive vs AI having zero awareness seems to be contradictory...
And believe it or not, GT implemented Qualifying in the past games like GT1 and GT3/GT4, so it's not like PD is outdated in that case....but I don't know why PD removed qualifying in future games though.
 
4,236
Australia
Australia
But isn't GT offline AI is easy enough to win even if you start 2k behind?

The issue is that it does not resemble racing. That is a concern for a racing game that tries to be taken seriously as such. For me, it is one dimensional and mind numbingly dull.

Rally mode complaint is more connected to, the overall offline mode.

Only that in that PD deem it unfit for sport mode. Whether you race the tracks online or not, it isn't close to rally or rallycross.
 
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1,579
United Kingdom
Oxford, UK
doc-shipman
Whilst I agree the grind in GTS is ridiculous, removing the credits and going the way of Project Cars or some such by having them all available would take away the enjoyment of GT games in my opinion.

I, too, remember buying something cheap and rubbish and racing through the Sunday Cup and similar to earn enough cash to buy something fun.

It could be resolved by bringing back the 'used car market' which randomly rotates and allows cars to be purchased at a reduced rate...
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
Whilst I agree the grind in GTS is ridiculous, removing the credits and going the way of Project Cars or some such by having them all available would take away the enjoyment of GT games in my opinion.

I, too, remember buying something cheap and rubbish and racing through the Sunday Cup and similar to earn enough cash to buy something fun.

It could be resolved by bringing back the 'used car market' which randomly rotates and allows cars to be purchased at a reduced rate...
The problem of this is those players that are no longer a kid/teen, doesn't have the time available to buy cars and completing races like Sunday Cup.
 
1,579
United Kingdom
Oxford, UK
doc-shipman
The problem of this is those players that are no longer a kid/teen, doesn't have the time available to buy cars and completing races like Sunday Cup.

I don't, either, but the volume of cars coupled with the ability to sell prize cars meant that the 'grind' wasn't a grind in previous ones for me. By the time I had progressed (bearing in mind I enjoyed the beginner races in slower cars and classes) I could afford the cars I wanted to drive.

EDIT: I guess the point is, there is a difference between progressing a career mode and grinding for credits.

You don't see people complaining that they need to work through the story on Red Dead Redemption before they can access a different gun or horse, but the concept of progressing in a racing game to unlock cars is something people are complaining about...

But when the progression requires repeating multiple re-runs of the same event OVER AND OVER again then it becomes a grind and is a sign of a failed in-game economy IMO.
 
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82
floydant
I understand they are trying to reflect the real world value of cars with their pricing. But that falls apart when you start introducing "priceless" cars!
If a car is in a game people just want to drive it! They are so far removed from the natural progression in the game.
Give them as prize cars for levelling up or mileage points or something.
I've been grinding for the last fortnight to treat myself to one, I'm about £20k from the Miura.
I was even asking advice on these forums on which unicorn to get because I was that torn up over spending that amount of credits on one car! I was asking "which one feels the most special?" :lol: in a game! :lol:
But then I look at other cars I'm missing that I could spend that on, I could get all missing N-cars (non-unicorn) for that, plus a few Gr.1's.
I'm a completionist by nature when it comes to gaming, but I'm going to have to take stand and exclude the £10M+ cars from my mind.
Even if I get one, I won't be satisfied, I know I'll want the others too! So best to forget them now.
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
I understand they are trying to reflect the real world value of cars with their pricing. But that falls apart when you start introducing "priceless" cars!
If a car is in a game people just want to drive it! They are so far removed from the natural progression in the game.
Give them as prize cars for levelling up or mileage points or something.
I've been grinding for the last fortnight to treat myself to one, I'm about £20k from the Miura.
I was even asking advice on these forums on which unicorn to get because I was that torn up over spending that amount of credits on one car! I was asking "which one feels the most special?" :lol: in a game! :lol:
But then I look at other cars I'm missing that I could spend that on, I could get all missing N-cars (non-unicorn) for that, plus a few Gr.1's.
I'm a completionist by nature when it comes to gaming, but I'm going to have to take stand and exclude the £10M+ cars from my mind.
Even if I get one, I won't be satisfied, I know I'll want the others too! So best to forget them now.
"priceless" cars? You mean not for sale cars? IIRC that concept exists until GT4 (and as you say, only be able to be obtained as prize cars), by GT5 onwards all cars are sold.
 
82
floydant
"priceless" cars? You mean not for sale cars? IIRC that concept exists until GT4 (and as you say, only be able to be obtained as prize cars), by GT5 onwards all cars are sold.

No, I mean they are trying to reflect the real world value of cars that are astronomically expensive in real life, therefore they are astronomically expensive in the game. But it's a game, I don't want harsh lessons on economics while playing a game, I want to drive beautiful cars!
I agree completely that all cars should be for sale in the game, but the economy of this fails. So they should make those cars available to buy in some other way.
You can't reduce the value of the unicorns too much, or else they won't be special.
You can't massively increase the rate of earning credits naturally as this devalues the credits and breaks the economy for all the other cars.
If you could earn the unicorns alongside earning credits for the regular cars, by tying it to mileage or achievements etc. then nothing would be broken.
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
No, I mean they are trying to reflect the real world value of cars that are astronomically expensive in real life, therefore they are astronomically expensive in the game. But it's a game, I don't want harsh lessons on economics while playing a game, I want to drive beautiful cars!
I agree completely that all cars should be for sale in the game, but the economy of this fails. So they should make those cars available to buy in some other way.
You can't reduce the value of the unicorns too much, or else they won't be special.
You can't massively increase the rate of earning credits naturally as this devalues the credits and breaks the economy for all the other cars.
If you could earn the unicorns alongside earning credits for the regular cars, by tying it to mileage or achievements etc. then nothing would be broken.
Like other people say, they should increase the payment of Sport mode instead. I don't want the car's price to be measured by performance like many other racing games.
 
397
United States
United States
wheelmansteve
In previous editions, only significant event completions yielded prize cars. I think the GTS implementation of a car-a-day was intended to boost participation, but for me it has clearly backfired. Raise the bar for getting the prize car, and return the ability to both PICK THE COLOR and to sell them. (Guy who has 4 NSX's, 3 of them blue, 4 GR.B GT-r's, 4 Challengers, 2 of them white, 2 Suzuki Swifts (Why?) etc....) I end up buying dupes to get the factory color I want.
 
588
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
TheGaming_Galaxy
Hands down the entire concept of having to buy cars. Just make them available, all of them, it's just pointless and annoying.

You may feel that way, but many people prefer having to win certain cars. It makes it fun to unlock special cars that not everyone else has yet.
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
In previous editions, only significant event completions yielded prize cars. I think the GTS implementation of a car-a-day was intended to boost participation, but for me it has clearly backfired. Raise the bar for getting the prize car, and return the ability to both PICK THE COLOR and to sell them. (Guy who has 4 NSX's, 3 of them blue, 4 GR.B GT-r's, 4 Challengers, 2 of them white, 2 Suzuki Swifts (Why?) etc....) I end up buying dupes to get the factory color I want.
Really...this is the feature that can be easily brought back, as it's been in previous GT, why PD :nervous:
You may feel that way, but many people prefer having to win certain cars. It makes it fun to unlock special cars that not everyone else has yet.
This comes mainly because there are no time for people (who were kid/teen fan of older GT) to win/buy cars. But he's an online elitist so...
 
710
United States
Southfield, Detroit
BroncoFLHX
I’m really not a fan of how the tuning system got dumbed down in GT5, and then basically removed in GTS. Less and less upgrades were available. It felt satisfying in GT4 to slowly build up your car with what little money you had, and being excited when you hit the 300hp mark. Even the chassis upgrades were like that.

GT5 upgrades felt like you bought upgrades in groups, getting +20-50hp with every little part. Then GT6 was dumbed even further with less things to upgrade. Now GTS feels like a different variant of other modern arcade racers, where you throw ‘points’ at it and hope you get HP and the end. I really hope GT7 goes back to GT’s roots and make upgrading a lot complicated like it used to be.
 

ARTAsean

(Banned)
1,307
United States
United States
Hands down the entire concept of having to buy cars. Just make them available, all of them, it's just pointless and annoying.

While I agree, keep in mind every GT game moving forward will have micro-transactions. Whether or not they’re intrusive is dependent upon a grind wall existing.

I don’t mind paying $5 here and there for a DLC package, but I would not buy every single car in the game with real money, and would much prefer to grind for them.
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
I’m really not a fan of how the tuning system got dumbed down in GT5, and then basically removed in GTS. Less and less upgrades were available. It felt satisfying in GT4 to slowly build up your car with what little money you had, and being excited when you hit the 300hp mark. Even the chassis upgrades were like that.

GT5 upgrades felt like you bought upgrades in groups, getting +20-50hp with every little part. Then GT6 was dumbed even further with less things to upgrade. Now GTS feels like a different variant of other modern arcade racers, where you throw ‘points’ at it and hope you get HP and the end. I really hope GT7 goes back to GT’s roots and make upgrading a lot complicated like it used to be.
Really hope so for this...if they can go back into the roots with GT League and road cars in GTS, then I beg for them to do this.

Their excuse was that players nowadays have less interest in cars and its parts so they simplify the GTS tuning: https://www.driving.co.uk/news/gran-turismo-boss-says-removed-gt-mode-gamers-losing-automotive-know/ -_-. But please, GT's aim is encyclopedia, not being arcade-y (in system too), to make players know about cars. If their problems are the nowadays players, do something like still including the parts, but also include the Quick Tune where each level upgrade is buying some upgrades in groups (like lv. 1 = buying sports muffler + intercooler, etc.)

Should be easy enough to do that, right? It won't hinder the game like taking load times or anything.
 
710
United States
Southfield, Detroit
BroncoFLHX
Really hope so for this...if they can go back into the roots with GT League and road cars in GTS, then I beg for them to do this.

Their excuse was that players nowadays have less interest in cars and its parts so they simplify the GTS tuning: https://www.driving.co.uk/news/gran-turismo-boss-says-removed-gt-mode-gamers-losing-automotive-know/ -_-. But please, GT's aim is encyclopedia, not being arcade-y (in system too), to make players know about cars. If their problems are the nowadays players, do something like still including the parts, but also include the Quick Tune where each level upgrade is buying some upgrades in groups (like lv. 1 = buying sports muffler + intercooler, etc.)

Should be easy enough to do that, right? It won't hinder the game like taking load times or anything.
Exactly, as a kid playing GT4 I had no idea what a port polish was, or what a port was to a car, or that the thumbnail was a picture of an cylinder head. But that curiosity of what the hell I was upgrading is what made me want to learn about it, then down the rabbit hole I went. If people get dumber, why dumb down the education system as a response?
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
Exactly, as a kid playing GT4 I had no idea what a port polish was, or what a port was to a car, or that the thumbnail was a picture of an cylinder head. But that curiosity of what the hell I was upgrading is what made me want to learn about it, then down the rabbit hole I went. If people get dumber, why dumb down the education system as a response?
Because nowadays people would be more likely to be turned off by those 'complex' car education :(
So now I proposed the solution of including all parts, but include Quick Tune as a grouped parts buy per level.

GT5 had dope Tuning Parts menu though IMO.
 
1,073
United Kingdom
England
Hands down the entire concept of having to buy cars. Just make them available, all of them, it's just pointless and annoying.

Couldn't disagree more, the effort>reward feedback loop is what kept past GTs interesting.

Booting the game up day one and having access to everything would be akin to starting Skyrim with a level 80 walking God or Cities Skylines with a fully built city. Yeah it has saved you a bit of time, but you have done nothing for it
 
82
floydant
Because nowadays people would be more likely to be turned off by those 'complex' car education :(
So now I proposed the solution of including all parts, but include Quick Tune as a grouped parts buy per level.

You were never forced to read the descriptions, I always read them and found them interesting, but I didn't feel like I had to.

I like your idea of upgrade packages though. With optional encyclopaedic descriptions of course. It would help people understand the effects of upgrading different parts. Increase Power or Decrease weight is too basic! Doesn't feel like Gran Turismo! Gran Turismo games always had an almost educational feel to them.

Would upgrading parts over-complicate the BoP for online racing though? Is that the reason they've left it out?
 
1,073
United Kingdom
England
Would upgrading parts over-complicate the BoP for online racing though? Is that the reason they've left it out?

I would expect bop racing to use baseline versions of the car with any changes the user made being ignored. A quick pop up message saying 'car set to official default performance for BOP' to let people know first of course.
 
1,374
Indonesia
Indonesia
You were never forced to read the descriptions, I always read them and found them interesting, but I didn't feel like I had to.

I like your idea of upgrade packages though. With optional encyclopaedic descriptions of course. It would help people understand the effects of upgrading different parts. Increase Power or Decrease weight is too basic! Doesn't feel like Gran Turismo! Gran Turismo games always had an almost educational feel to them.

Would upgrading parts over-complicate the BoP for online racing though? Is that the reason they've left it out?
Not really about reading descriptions, but those simple minded are likely confused like on which words should they click when they want to make their car go faster; turbo? suspension? etc, They are lazy to explore that.
 
2,581
Canada
Canada
You may feel that way, but many people prefer having to win certain cars. It makes it fun to unlock special cars that not everyone else has yet.

At which point i ask the question, are we racers or gamers and who is the game aimed at? SPORT mode is utterly brilliant despite it faults., because it aids exciting racing for the time poor. So you will attract racers who are annoyed by the silly gaming gimmicks.

I feel the title has matured enough to do away with the credits thing.
 
3,061
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
ITT.....
giphy.gif



Best avatar ever!!!!!! And now a funny meme to match.
 
37
United States
ATL
radix023
AI is easy, but there's a catch:

1) AI immensely rubberbands when you reach the said 1st place in half of the GT League races. No matter how more powerful your car is, they'll always catch up
2) AI is aggressive, and it became even worse after the last update. I already lost count of how many times i've been punted, rammed, squashed into sidewalls etc. I got rammed on a straight a couple of times. A straight! We drive on a straight, i overtake the opponent, and he just veers and sideswipes me into the grass/wall/sandtrap. So bloody irritating
3) Complementing the previous catch: AI has zero awareness of their surroundings and drive strictly on the precalculated driving lines. They don't give a **** if your car appears on their way. If you overtake them from the outside on a corner and stick to the outside, giving them enough space on the inside, they'll still drive on the "out-in-out" trajectory and swipe you off the road like you are not even there. GT5's AI was much better in that regard
4) When games like PCars 2 offer qualifying modes before races and stuff, GTS's approach looks very outdated. Hell, even in GT5 you started from the middle of the pack in a proper 25-30 meters aside rolling start. And it was perfectly fine: if you were bad, you'd lose places, if you're good you'd win and if you were average, you'd stick in the middle. Here, you start every race dead last and the 1st place is 1 minute away from you, if not further

I hope GT7's AI will be much better. GTS'es is just broken af

I was thinking much the same thing the other week:
If there is such an emphasis on racing clean (required course to go online, S ratings, clean race reward) then why doesn't the game lead by example? Shouldn't AI racers be perfectly clean racers unless antagonized?
 
729
Brazil
Brazil
Yet everyone says GT3 is best GT ever, that has the car roulette which is exact same as in GTS. Although I can say car roulette should have equal cars there.

Well good thing I'm not everyone, I find GT3 one of the weakest titles in the series and I'm being completely honest here.
 
1,475
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
breeminator
breeminator
You don't see people complaining that they need to work through the story on Red Dead Redemption before they can access a different gun or horse, but the concept of progressing in a racing game to unlock cars is something people are complaining about...
The thing is, in a game like RDR, that story progress IS the point of the game. In GTS, OTOH, it's just a means to an end. For many people the point of GTS is the online racing, and for that you simply want to have all the eligible cars for each race available to you.

For example, suppose I want to do this week's Gr.4 daily race and test every Gr.4 car to see which one is fastest for me. The game gives you 1000 credits per lap for qualifying laps. To buy all 27 Gr.4 cars would take 210 hours of lapping at 1:20 pace. 7.78 hours of lapping to buy one 350k car. Now, I'm all for encouraging people to become better drivers, but I think testing each car for nearly 8 hours before I can afford the next one is a bit much. I'd see 30 mins of qualifying paying 350k to get you the next car as a much more reasonable rate of progress, and 15 minutes as ideal, 10 or so laps with each car to give it a good test before moving onto the next one.
 
41,635
Australia
The Bronx
We got the paint chips. Now, paint decals. Just give us all the colors at the start. Chromes, Solids, Mattes, Half MAttes, HAlf chromes, all that.

I can see buying the wheels, helmets & suits and avatar poses, extinguisher and tow decals, but the colors should always be available.

I can almost see various parts being available as an ME.
 
2,653
England
Reading
cutback73
cutback73
GT Sport in particular has moved in the direction of less time doing "stuff" and more time actual racing. I seem to recall an interview with Kaz on here referring to that.

One thing to remember is that they need to attract gamers under 30 to keep the franchise going in the future. And, like it or not, many of those gamers are playing games on their phone or tablet as much or more than they do on their consoles. I think PD/Kaz believe(d) that the main competitor to GT Sport wasn't going to be the next Forza motorsport or Horizon, it's more like..

https://www.geek.com/games/forza-street-makes-microsoft-racing-game-mobile-1783246/

Personally, I think that was a mistake by PD and they were surprised by the resulting backlash. So the next game is likely to be a bit more traditional but somehow it's got to fit with esports too.

Personally, I think the suggestion of "stock bop" cars for online but with tuning added for offline would be the best solution.

They could even address the wish of some to have all cars unlocked by making them available in arcade mode but only the stock bop ones.

But as someone said above, microtransactions is around forever more, unfortunately. If all the cars are available from Day 1, there's nothing for you to buy that's going to generate anywhere near enough revenue to replace buying cars.

The one good thing in all our favours could be the obvious commitment of Sony and PD to esports which seems to growing not reducing with the Toyota sponsorship. They can't have "pay to win" microtransactions as that would bugger up the esports. But that also means they can't have paid DLC post release because that will split the online community and esports too. So, I think the situation will stay similar to what is now.

The thing they should do though is equalise the online and offline layouts. There is more than a dozen races in GT League that can get you about 1m credits or more in an hour (F1 car, Red Bull, Nostalgia etc). There should be the equivalent online too.

In the end, I don't know the exact percentage but 90% of the cars in this game can be purchased in an hours gameplay in GT League which I don't believe to be excessive.

Improve online payouts and do something about the unicorn cars e.g. make them winnable through achievements (levelling, trophies or something like that) and you have a game that will work for the majority I think.

We got the paint chips. Now, paint decals. Just give us all the colors at the start. Chromes, Solids, Mattes, Half MAttes, HAlf chromes, all that.

I can see buying the wheels, helmets & suits and avatar poses, extinguisher and tow decals, but the colors should always be available.

I can almost see various parts being available as an ME.

I think using the Mileage Exchange for upgrades could be a good idea if they develop it on an ongoing basis, e.g. keep adding parts for new cars as they are released and new parts for existing cars, or if they have a large selection ready at launch. That could fit with upgrade bundles too. 1,000 MEX for brakes, 500 for exhaust etc, maybe 5,000 or 10,000 for an automatic upgrade for those who don't want to "tinker". It's worked in a similar way successful in other driving games.