any of you wondered how cars are defined in GT5?

  • Thread starter Thread starter icefox1983
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icefox1983
The essense of GT, some would argue, is the physics engine. It is indeed very good. However, there are more accurate and sophisticated physics engines out there -- LFS, GTR, iRacing, etc. So this alone won't make GT5 King of Racing Games (any objections to the title?).

The way I see it, GT is the King because of one thing -- the accurate recreation of driving characteristics of 1000 cars (P or S). As many (say Jeremy Clarkson) have testified, this car doesn't loose grip gradually but suddenly it's mad, in that car it's not easy to shift weight to front tire, and in GT they feel exactly this way!

Engine torque curve etc. are easy enough to recreate. However, I'm curious how handling characteristics are recreated. I figure there are two ways: Fundamental, where as weight distribution and suspension geometry are recreated and they are so accurate as to make the car drive just like the real one, or Superficial, where there are parameters such as "graduation of grip loss" and cars are tuned to simulate what they are in real life.

I certainly wish and almost believe GT goes the fundamental way, but have a doubt because it seems to be so hard to do... I mean the physics engine must be almost Matrix-like to recreate every nuance. For example, in GT-R the powertrain is attached to chasis in a way that it sort of moves around and refines weight distribution. To recreate that, GT's engine must support dynamic weight distribution. Also, Lancer Evo has torque vectoring, and it's a pretty sophisticated system to accurately recreate (I think it's possible only by looking at Mitsubishi's source code). These sound too much for a video game.

It is possible that a mixture is used. For most cars fundamental simulation is enough. For Kaz's favorite such as GT-R, Evo or NSX-R, "additives" further highlights their characteristics. Yeah, some would argue it's cheating, but the outcome is pretty darn good.
 
I've often thought it's a shame it doesn't simulate the computery gubbins that goes on in cars. Driving a skyline/GTR/Ferrari it feels like straight forward mechanical grip rather than the computer doing clever things to balance the car.

Take the 458 for instance, pretty much regarded as having one of the best, most transparent ASM/TC systems of any car. Play it in GT with those turned on and you can just feel power being robbed from you.
 
I've often thought it's a shame it doesn't simulate the computery gubbins that goes on in cars. Driving a skyline/GTR/Ferrari it feels like straight forward mechanical grip rather than the computer doing clever things to balance the car.

This means such nuances are not simulated and then DP must have artificially spiced them up to reproduce the nice handling etc. Confirms what I thought.
 
Take the 458 for instance, pretty much regarded as having one of the best, most transparent ASM/TC systems of any car. Play it in GT with those turned on and you can just feel power being robbed from you.

^THIS!!!^

Its pretty sad that PD couldnt deliver expecially the ferraris as you would buy them from the RL showroom. Not exactally the "Real" driving simulator.
I'm in the process of tuning stuff on my 458 so it seems more life-like. Not an easy feat, but I know it will be a more enjoyable drive for the hard work.
 
Ferrari in games sucks. Luca Di montezemolo thinks this is a bad idea for tifosi!. Reasons for duplicating their car performance on wrong biased true to life driving penetration.
 
I think the computer trickery cars of today is much harder to simulate as a lot of those technology, be it as control algorithm or mechanical response is hard to know unless you have access to R&D data from the OEM. In real life I am a damper design engineer and when we design some type of damper using some of the off-the-shell product that might be shared by another damper manufacturer, without knowing how they control it we can't duplicate their behavior, since so much of their "performance" is in the software control. I think one example that kinda illustrate this is the issue that some people including myself have been having with EvoX. The car "wanders" on the straightline, when you turn the AYC control on the car on. In real world this is a type of torque vectoring device that can actively shift power over 4 wheels to help the car turn. A system like that would be monitoring many inputs on the vehicle to decide how to help the driver. Lateral g, wheel speed, throttle position, steering position, shock position...etc. In the game it seems to be(seems, as obviously I don't know how PD coded this) more directly tied to the steering. As the FFB of the steering wheel produces some kind of noise the driver compensates, and the AYC senses that steering input and compensates more so you get these cross talk between all the system and the car does not want to go straight(I wonder if DS3 user have the same issue, would be nice to have some feedback on this). You swap that with a mechanical LSD in game, the problem goes away. Of course its easier to just take that steering input to code the AYC function, but that I think diminishes the actual car's sophisticated system. At the very least I'd imagine having some kind of dead zone on the AYC function vs the steering input would alleviate most of the problem.

In someway racing cars are simpler from a physics standpoint since most racing series ban the use of most of the modern vehicle dynamic electronics, so it just a matter of having right tire data, aero map and suspension and inertial data. Though I think GT is also lacking in that respect.
 
Ferrari in games sucks. Luca Di montezemolo thinks this is a bad idea for tifosi!. Reasons for duplicating their car performance on wrong biased true to life driving penetration.

Can you translate that into english? :confused:
 
great! thanks. in short, such level of details are not likely simulated, and some are even trade secrets. GT is a game after all.
I think the computer trickery cars of today is much harder to simulate as a lot of those technology, be it as control algorithm or mechanical response is hard to know unless you have access to R&D data from the OEM. In real life I am a damper design engineer and when we design some type of damper using some of the off-the-shell product that might be shared by another damper manufacturer, without knowing how they control it we can't duplicate their behavior, since so much of their "performance" is in the software control. I think one example that kinda illustrate this is the issue that some people including myself have been having with EvoX. The car "wanders" on the straightline, when you turn the AYC control on the car on. In real world this is a type of torque vectoring device that can actively shift power over 4 wheels to help the car turn. A system like that would be monitoring many inputs on the vehicle to decide how to help the driver. Lateral g, wheel speed, throttle position, steering position, shock position...etc. In the game it seems to be(seems, as obviously I don't know how PD coded this) more directly tied to the steering. As the FFB of the steering wheel produces some kind of noise the driver compensates, and the AYC senses that steering input and compensates more so you get these cross talk between all the system and the car does not want to go straight(I wonder if DS3 user have the same issue, would be nice to have some feedback on this). You swap that with a mechanical LSD in game, the problem goes away. Of course its easier to just take that steering input to code the AYC function, but that I think diminishes the actual car's sophisticated system. At the very least I'd imagine having some kind of dead zone on the AYC function vs the steering input would alleviate most of the problem.

In someway racing cars are simpler from a physics standpoint since most racing series ban the use of most of the modern vehicle dynamic electronics, so it just a matter of having right tire data, aero map and suspension and inertial data. Though I think GT is also lacking in that respect.
 

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