Any Porsche owners with experiences to share?

[RewindTape]

Hello.

I have got it in my mind that a sports car is a possibility, perhaps even a necessity.

As I live in Sweden with winter roads at least six months a year, four wheel drive is a requirement. I have the intention of driving the car all year round, so there really is no other option. If that upsets you, for ski trips I will probably have to resort to use a roof rack of some kind.

I started looking at the Audi TT (current Audi owner) and have since decided that the looks of the original model feels a bit dated. So '06 or later it is, and this is where it gets interesting (for me at least). The price range of '07-ish Audi TTs is shared with Porsche 996s ('00-ish).

I had the opportunity of buying a '99 Carrera 4, but decided against it because of design problems with the 3.0l engine. I simply couldn't afford an engine failure, and the odds were not good from what I heard and read.

I'm therefor looking for a '01 or later Carrera 4 with the new 3.2l engine (as well a '07 or later TT).

Does anybody here have any experiences to share? Cost of ownership / maintenance costs? Any reason not to go for the Beetle Sport?

I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before I lay down my hard earned cash.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Stotty]

I've owned a 00 996 C2 manual for the past 3 years, and covered around 50k miles in it.

Bit of information in general...

There are 2 models of 996: The mk1 (98-02) has a 3.4l engine with 300bhp, the mk 2 (02-05) has a 3.6 with 320bhp (but weighs a bit more so performance is pretty much the same). Both were available as 2WD and 4WD.

The IMS (Intermediate Main Shaft) failure that normally requires a new engine (or expensive re-build @ c.£5k+) can happen to both engines and even to 997 models too. If you want 100% peace of mind you'd need to buy either a GT3 or Turbo as these models had a different engine based on the Motorsports block (known as the Mezger).

Running costs can be cheap or very expensive... just depends if you get a good one, and to a certain extent, if you're lucky! The mk2 is a bit better on running costs as it has 2 year service intervals.

Servicing is cheap if you can find a decent indy to look after her... I pay c.£300 for an annual service, £500 for a major every 2 years. OPC's tend to be OK on service costs, but much higher if you need anything else doing.

Rear tyres don't last too long (c.6-8k miles), and cost around £250 each, fitted. Fronts last forever.

Brakes corrode if you don't use the car regularly and it's in damp conditions... OPC will charge you £1200 for fitting a set of discs and pads, but it's half that at an Indy. You can test if the discs need replacing by running your finger tip over the innner face of the disc... if it's smooth, they are probably OK, if they are ridged, they probably need replacing.

If other things go wrong they will be expensive. Some of the work my car's had over the past 3 years...

Radiators are a known problem as leaves and crap gets trapped in them and they rot... £700 to have them replaced.

Coffin arms (the lower suspension arms) and top mount bushes eventually collapse, resulting in the suspension squeaking over bumps and the car losing steering precision. 4 coffin ams, fitting and a 4 wheel alignment will be c.£1200. Top mounts are cheap to buy, but I haven't had mine replaced yet.

MAF's last around 2-3 years and cost c.£200 to replace.

A couple of weeks ago I stopped to buy ciggies on the way to golf. When I came back to the car she wouldn't re-start. Had her recovered to my local Porsche Indy to get the problem fixed, and whilst there I also had a service and some other bits fixed (door lock, key transmitter problem, some other bits an bobs. When I picked her up 5 days later I got an invoce for £1,765 for the work.

Mine also needs a diff rebuild as the pinion bearings are very noisy... somewhere between £1,500 and £2,000, depending on exactly what needs fixing when they get the box apart.

You can minimise the risk by getting the car independently looked over by a Porsche specialist... in the UK, you'd get someone like Peter Morgan to inspect a potential purchase and he'd let you know if there were any issues. Hopefully there would be someone offering a similar service in your country.

But even if you do get a good one, you should budget c.£2k a year for emergencies.

 

[RewindTape]

<Annoyed grunt>
You are of course correct. I got the displacement numbers mixed up with the power numbers.

Oh! I haven't heard that the mk 2 engine had the same issue. How does a IMS failure present it self? The mechanic I spoke to said that the block could start leaking water into the oil, and that's how you would know it's too late - engine replacement time. That issue with the engine block was, according to him, remedied in the mk 2.
The GT3 and Turbo are awesome I'm sure, but as many think so it's a bit out of my league price wise.
Is the RMS (Rear Main Seal) still a problem on the mk 2 too?

As far as I know, the service intervals are 20 000 km (12 500 miles) and basic service is about £250. Every 40 000 km it's £500 and every 80 000 km it's £1000. Approximations at OPC (Official Porsche Center?). Anything needing replacing is not included, just service.
Apart from that, the clutch should be replaced at about 100 000 km.
Here in Sweden there's a depreciation difference when using an indie mechanic contra a Porsche Center. I would have to locate a potential local indie though, as there are no local Porsche Centres.

Real world numbers like yours are very helpful in portraying actual ownership costs, and makes for a realistic budget. Thank you! 👍

I would use the car almost every day as my point of owning it would be to drive a sports car whereever I go. My friends drive estates and saloons, but I don't have to. And it's not an ego trip, I just like driving.

Thanks for the simple brake disc check. I must ask though, what's the difference in wear on the inside and outside of the disc?

I hadn't heard about the radiator issue. Good to know.

At what mileage did you have to replace the suspension bushes?

MAF = Mass Air Flow sensor?

"Ouch" on the invoice! A car that isn't driven is a misuse of resources though. And as someone said: "If it's got tits or tyres, it will cost you money".

At what mileage did the pinion bearings start to whine?

Everyone I have spoken to have recommended that I let a Porsche Center check the car before I buy. They apparently have a quite substantial checklist and would give me a good picture of the car's condition. The only contact I have otherwise is located in Stockholm, but he's quite busy working with Porsche racing so I don't know if he could help me out.

£2000 a year in service and maintenance, uh? Well, that's a bit more than I have heard as I got the tip that wear parts cost about £1000 to replace (not totally wrong if I look at your figures), and on my '96 Audi something needs replacing about once a year, thus I was calculating £100 a month. I don't doubt you, I'm going back to the budget board to revise it.

Not a technical nor economical question: When you get into the car now, three years later, does it still give you the same feeling of driving refinement?
I sometimes get reminded that my old Audi, which I have owned for six years, is still pretty good; especially after driving a thirteen years younger FWD company car. My V6 and 4WD, it's just such a nice combination.

Again, thank you for taking your time replying.

 

[freedomweasel]

I have nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to say that if you actually drive your Porsche year round, in the snow, with skis on top, you're winner in my book. 👍

Best of luck on the search.

This was recently posted on another forum.

 

[Sniffs]

If it's got tits or tyres, it will cost you money".

ROFL! that's universal truth, there...and I think I'm gonna put it in my signature!

from a multiple klunker owner comes this little warning: you will probably have to replace everything that's considered "normal wear" all at once. And I hear Porsche parts are as astronomically priced as the labor (too bad common cars are like that, too).

 

[MistaX]

I sort-of owned an '84 944 for a period of time, but that isn't really comparable to a 911.

The 944 was a well built car, was still rock solid despite being older than me.

Parts were still expensive, working on it was a pain. It took about a week to do the timing belt/water pump, etc.

But what a car! Handles like it's on rails, extremely predictable, even though it was an NA and slow, it was FUN. Extremely fun.

Given the chance and the funds I wouldn't hesitate on a 944.

Since you have the chance and the funds for a 911, go for it.

I'm sure parts are expensive and I'm sure it's a pain to work on, but if it drives as I expect it would, it's all worth it.


Also you'll save unbelievable amounts of money if you can just work on it yourself. Dealers are insane, Porsche specialty shops are just a little bit cheaper.

Go there and ask for advice on how to do the work, but don't make them do the work

 

[RewindTape]

from a multiple klunker owner comes this little warning: you will probably have to replace everything that's considered "normal wear" all at once.

That is a pain (my first car suffered from this, but not my current one), and why I hope to minimise the risk by checking the car's service history. In Sweden, at least, there's a little book with the car's service record that follows the car. It's not fool proof, but the advice I've gotten is not to buy a car without it. If nothing else but to minimise depreciation.

I sort-of owned an '84 944 for a period of time [...] what a car! Handles like it's on rails, extremely predictable, even though it was an NA and slow, it was FUN. [...] Also you'll save unbelievable amounts of money if you can just work on it yourself. Dealers are insane, Porsche specialty shops are just a little bit cheaper.

I have heard that about the 944. Did you drive it in winter conditions?
Yeah, I know, and it is a concern that I don't have a local shop / dealer. I have a contact that I'll ask how he services his, but he only uses it during the summer, so it's easier for him - he doesn't need it to run. One alternative would be to keep the Audi, with minimum polices, to have just in case the Porsche for some reason wouldn't run. It's a subpar solution though.
And I wish I was more of a mechanic myself.

As it was the first thing I "researched" about the 996, I'll just leave these here for freedomweasel and everybody else to admire:

http://img221.imageshack.us/i/dscn4290oo5.jpg/

http://img155.imageshack.us/i/773741203972301uw6.jpg/

If you can use a SUV for twice the price during the winter, why not a Carrera 4?

 

[MistaX]

I have heard that about the 944. Did you drive it in winter conditions?

Yes, there were several times where I was caught out in the snow with it.

No, it wasn't fun. I mean, it's fun if you have balls of steel. But for someone who wants the car and himself to remain in one piece, no, not at all.

And I wish I was more of a mechanic myself.

Everyone can be a mechanic. Google is your friend. Or more in this case:

Rennlist

 

[Stotty]

Oh! I haven't heard that the mk 2 engine had the same issue. How does a IMS failure present it self? The mechanic I spoke to said that the block could start leaking water into the oil, and that's how you would know it's too late - engine replacement time. That issue with the engine block was, according to him, remedied in the mk 2.

Is the RMS (Rear Main Seal) still a problem on the mk 2 too?

The IMS issue has never properly been resolved and 997's still suffer from occassional failures. There are some other potential problems too with cylinder liners. But the number of failures is still a tiny percentage.

RMS's can be a problem... mine's never had one, but my mechanic did tell me at the last service that it was getting ready to be replaced. I'll have it done when the box is out for the diff re-build.

As far as I know, the service intervals are 20 000 km (12 500 miles) and basic service is about £250. Every 40 000 km it's £500 and every 80 000 km it's £1000. Approximations at OPC (Official Porsche Center?). Anything needing replacing is not included, just service.

Correct 👍

Thanks for the simple brake disc check. I must ask though, what's the difference in wear on the inside and outside of the disc?

Dunno, but it works

MAF = Mass Air Flow sensor?

👍

£2000 a year in service and maintenance, uh? Well, that's a bit more than I have heard as I got the tip that wear parts cost about £1000 to replace (not totally wrong if I look at your figures), and on my '96 Audi something needs replacing about once a year, thus I was calculating £100 a month. I don't doubt you, I'm going back to the budget board to revise it.

You probably won't spend that every year, but you need to be in a position to find that sort of cash if needed. First year, mine cost nothing at all

At what mileage did the pinion bearings start to whine?

It started around 75k miles, with a faint whine when applying the throttle in a high gear. Now it's pretty much a permanent whine.

Not a technical nor economical question: When you get into the car now, three years later, does it still give you the same feeling of driving refinement?
I sometimes get reminded that my old Audi, which I have owned for six years, is still pretty good; especially after driving a thirteen years younger FWD company car. My V6 and 4WD, it's just such a nice combination.

It's still a joy to get in to every morning

 

[RewindTape]

Resurrecting this thread from the dead, just to say; Finally, it's mine!

Taken from this thread...

I love the car (cue Queen song)... A Porsche 911 turbo '02, silver with black interior.

It's everything my childhood self dreamed it would be! A lot of little details, the kind that just brighten up my day and new car purchase. Like, when I put it in reverse, the door mirror tilts down so I can see the curb. I didn't know it did that.
It has the potential to let me down, rip my heart out and stomp on it, rob my wallet of all innards and leave me a scurvy ridden ramen head. Yet, somehow, it still feels worth it. There's not one single angle of the car that isn't beautiful; front, side, back, high, low - it doesn't matter.

I like that I still hold the key in my right hand each time I get into it, and have to switch to start it up. The way the white gagues sits in the black interior beneath the silver grey view of the hood, with it's slope and headlight tubes. Everything just says that I'm in something else, something special.

When I turn the key and the boxer engine sothingly kicks in with a rumble behind me and the front and centre RPM gague waves "Hello", I know I just want to start driving and don't stop until the end of the road.

The two stage accelerator is as brilliant as on my first Audi, and makes it a kick-walk in a teethpark to drive through town to work. The suspension is firm but not hard, and makes my current Audi A4 feel like a water baloon in comparison. And when I open the tap just a little, all the feedback brings confidence and assurance that a little bit more is OK too.

If I give in to that beckoning, every organ, every part of me just cracks up in a smile! There is no end to the power - it just keeps coming, and coming as long as that right foot is planted on the floor. And the more that red needle is allowed to climb towards the red zone, the more beautiful the noise, the more ferocious the G-forces.
Brake, my body tightening the seat belt, down to second gear into a roundabout, a slight squeel from the tyres before i start putting my right foot down again. Just turn the wheel and point the car towards the exit. There is no drama, except for the insanely rapid rise of the red needle. Third, passing 130 km/h, then braking again, before turning onto the on ramp for the motor way.
The needle says 3000 rpm as the road opens up ahead, through third into fourth. 200 km/h passes by and my smile have turned into a grin. Everything is still rock solid. The road is fed through my arms, legs and body, making me feel as one with the silvery rocket that just wants me to push further.
Reality bells are ringing however, and lifting off is rewarded with a slightly disappointed groan. I let it roll in sixth gear down to a more... accepted... speed.

For some, driving is something necessary, something they have to do in life - like cleaning. For others, it can be a passion, an enjoyment of living that makes you forget everything for a while, and also remind you why you spend all that time at work. Sometimes, once in a blue moon, they coincide - you get to do something that's necessary, with a passion.
I like driving my Audi too, but the Porsche just goes to eleven. It's off all my previous scales of driving enjoyment.

I like it. A lot.

If you ever have the opportunity to own your own enthusiast car, take it. It makes the journey better...

 

[Kent]

Big congrats to you sir, very nice pick. Before I decided to go new car I seriously considered some porsches. Very cool stuff. 👍

 

[Dennisch]

I saw the picture, and the first thing I notice are the scoops on the side. Thinking by myself, a Carrera 4 doesn't have scoops. That's a Turbo!

Nice car man, very nice. 👍

 

[RewindTape]

Big congrats to you sir, very nice pick. Before I decided to go new car I seriously considered some porsches. Very cool stuff. 👍

Thank you. It is definitely in the higher league of driving pleasure. It's crazy good driving it, and as Stotty said above; I smile every time I'm in it.

Out of curiosity, what car did you pick?

I saw the picture, and the first thing I notice are the scoops on the side. Thinking by myself, a Carrera 4 doesn't have scoops. That's a Turbo!

Nice car man, very nice. 👍

Thank you. Yeah, I fell in love with the wide body of the Carrera 4S, but had trouble finding the one I wanted. As time passed, the opportunity to take it to the next level opened up. Totally worth it!