Any possibiliy of finding out if a person is cheating online races?

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Voxalizer

Voxalizer

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Voxalizer
I feel very sad for having to ask this out here in public but simply put: How can you confirm whether or not someone is cheating in online races?

I'm not familiar at all with hacking and/or modding cars in GT5, I do however have a pretty good idea of what cars are capable of within the boundaries of the game. I did some searching on this forum and via google prior to opening this thread but I feel I won't find the answer on my own.

I have saved replay data of multiple races. I'd rather not upload these in public here on GTplanet because I do not want to name and shame. I will however supply them to anyone willing to have a look.
The person I'm talking about is NOT a GTPlanet member, of that I am sure. I've raced with the guy for about 6 months now and I would feel terrible if he turned out to be a cheater, but the things I'm seeing are just getting hard to believe. I want to be sure, if at all possible.

In short: Basically I'm looking for someone with the technical knowledge to check the replay and/or some feedback on how I can investigate this on my own. Any help will be greatly, greatly appreciated.
 
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It can just be a good setup or an abnormally good driver, but if you are suspicious then I will take a look. Some hybrids are too obvious, but some mods are subtle.
 
hsv010
It can just be a good setup or an abnormally good driver, but if you are suspicious then I will take a look. Some hybrids are too obvious, but some mods are subtle.
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Thanks, I'll get back to you in a PM shortly.
 
If this person is still going this fast after 2.15 it's likely they're running legitimate cars, hopefully that's the case. :)
 
The thing that triggered me to come here and create this thread happened last night, so yes... After patch 2.15.

Here's what happened: I set up a 600PP race on Fuji GT, without tyre restrictions. We usually run without tyre restrictions. Most of us were driving Honda Weiders on racing soft tyres. He was driving a BMW M3 GTR (how to get it to 600PP is beyond me), the replay says he was on sports hard tyres. Taking corners faster than us on racing softs. Up to two weeks ago we usually were equal in terms of skill and pace.

Now, I can accept someone being faster and winning alot of times in a row. However someone in a road car on sports hard tyres against race cars on racing soft tyres...? Nah.
 
Voxalizer
Now, I can accept someone being faster and winning alot of times in a row. However someone in a road car on sports hard tyres against race cars on racing soft tyres...? Nah.
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Who knows. It took less then 24 hours after 2.14 for things to go back to "normal". I wouldnt be surprised this time.
 
That's an interesting story... I have a case of a guy who uses half his break force and breaks much later before turn-in and still manages to make the turn.
Can this be attributed to driver ability?
 
@Geopan973 If you run a brake balance that suits your style then yes, that is legitimate. When I run with the top guys at Suzuka with GT500 cars, I find one of the only ways of keeping up through turn 1 is flicking the car sideways a bit and letting it slide across the kerb. If you look at the fastest legit times in the TTs, you will see that the preferred driving style is throwing the car sideways over kerbs, something that would end in a crash irl.
 
That one sounds like a glitch to me, I've seen people hold the brakes at barely any pressure and slow down normally, then on the next lap use normal pressure and slow down at the same rate. It's also possible that person had tuned their brakes carefully and was stopping just before they'd lock up.
 
Voxalizer
Now, I can accept someone being faster and winning alot of times in a row. However someone in a road car on sports hard tyres against race cars on racing soft tyres...? Nah.
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Check his tire wear, if it was essentially non-existent compared to yours you got screwed... Also run another race with him. Run different cars first, then run those again, watch to see if he goes into his driving options (vehicle settings doesn't matter) . It's very possible he is running Racing Super Softs as the sports hard are that cars default tires..

I can take a look at your video if you would like, PM me. Any respectable modder will tell you I know what I am looking at and for with mods. As I am done with GT5 online your secret is safe with me also.
 
hsv010
@Geopan973 If you run a brake balance that suits your style then yes, that is legitimate. When I run with the top guys at Suzuka with GT500 cars, I find one of the only ways of keeping up through turn 1 is flicking the car sideways a bit and letting it slide across the kerb. If you look at the fastest legit times in the TTs, you will see that the preferred driving style is throwing the car sideways over kerbs, something that would end in a crash irl.
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I would agree with you and would not get so suspicious if he WAS sliding. The problem is that he never slides the car and his tire wear is normal or better than normal. Speaking for myself I would never-never-never make turn 1 in Nurburgring GP/F without full braking, not in a million years, whatever balance I use.
 
Alright, little update from me:

Turns out the guy seems to be legit afterall. I've learned from multiple sources that apparently there's a bug in GT5 Online where someone picks another car, but all the other people in the lobby still see him in the car he was previously using. Didn't know about that bug until now.
 
Geopan973
I would agree with you and would not get so suspicious if he WAS sliding. The problem is that he never slides the car and his tire wear is normal or better than normal. Speaking for myself I would never-never-never make turn 1 in Nurburgring GP/F without full braking, not in a million years, whatever balance I use.
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He might be running no ABS, with high BB like 7/5, a bit over half brake force is all that's needed to brake hard. I almost never use more than half when I'm driving.
 
Voxalizer
Alright, little update from me:

Turns out the guy seems to be legit afterall. I've learned from multiple sources that apparently there's a bug in GT5 Online where someone picks another car, but all the other people in the lobby still see him in the car he was previously using. Didn't know about that bug until now.
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Yes, it happens. I've been in a room where we've done a kart race, then moved onto a Nascar race, and one of the cars still appeared as a kart, but travelled like a Nascar. Funny to watch.
 
roflcoptor
Yes, it happens. I've been in a room where we've done a kart race, then moved onto a Nascar race, and one of the cars still appeared as a kart, but travelled like a Nascar. Funny to watch.
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This, I have been seen in a Shelby GT350 while I was driving a Ford TranCammer in an online track day.
 
When you spot a honda civic CRX hands down kicking the crap out of a bugatti veyron.. you know they're using a hacked car lol
 
Ridox2JZGTE
He might be running no ABS, with high BB like 7/5, a bit over half brake force is all that's needed to brake hard. I almost never use more than half when I'm driving.
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Bummer!!! He is using ABS set at 1 to 3.

Any other ideas???;)

(Although I have to admit, that if he is using a DFGT or similar wheel, he might start with ABS on and that's what I can see in the room menu when I hover my cursor on his name, and he may switching it off when in race. Then again I see this as a little bit far fetched, but who knows what one can do to "keep his secrets"...)


And a final question, since I have no experience in No Abs driving. Is it possible to break from a long straight (like Fuji, Nurb GP/F, etc) without exhausting the full length of your break pedal travel distance?
 
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Geopan973
And a final question, since I have no experience in No Abs driving. Is it possible to break from a long straight (like Fuji, Nurb GP/F, etc) without exhausting the full length of your brake pedal travel distance?
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Not sure what you mean?
 
Geopan973
Without applying full brake force on the pedal. Without filling the red bar brake indicator.
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Regardless of input device ( stick or steering wheel/pedal ) when no ABS is used, brake force ( the red brake bar ) required to brake from high speed is dependent on brake balance value. Low BB value like 3/1 or 2/1 allows higher brake force applied - usually around 75 to 80% from high speed, of course with lower speed, less brake force is necessary. With high BB like on my no ABS videos, usually 9/5 BB, I barely needed 50% red brake bar from high speed, and in low speed, a quarter / 25% is more than enough in most situation. No ABS can brake as late if not later than with ABS if the driver knows how to maximize brake force ( cadence braking and trail brake deep into the apex )

EDIT : Almost forgot, with ABS 1, setting high BB like 9/8 or 10/8 will also allows braking from high speed using less than full brake bar. I tried ABS 1 long ago, my habit of high BB and trail braking actually still works with ABS 1, I barely used full brake bar when braking from high speed. Most ABS 1 user have a bad habit of mashing the brake and let the game do all the hard work, while braking as if no ABS is used will also work.
 
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So, if he is legit, he must be switching off ABS during the race, in which case I can not check his settings, unless I exit the race and choose "watch race" from the lobby menu.

Could be.

But then, is it possible to be faster overall with ABS turned off? Time trials suggest the opposite.

Hell, I am not a quick driver, I participate the races for the fun of them and I am sure that the said guy is much faster than I am, under all conditions.

But as I stated in a previous post it makes an interesting subject for discussion.
 
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See my edited post :) ABS 1 also can be driven like no ABS with high BB value, it's up to the driver.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
See my edited post :) ABS 1 also can be driven like no ABS with high BB value, it's up to the driver.
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👍
Thanks for your time and input.

I will give it a shot, first without ABS (which surely will lead to a whole lot of laughter:sly:) and see if I can manage. I seriously doubt it though, but you never can be sure without trying.

BTW I also edited my post:

But then, is it possible to be faster overall with ABS turned off?
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was supposed to be a question...
 
Geopan973
was supposed to be a question...
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If you mean a no ABS driver can beat ABS 1 driver in a race, yeah I see quite a few good no ABS driver that can do that.

IMO, some alien can drive just as fast with or without assist, some only good with ABS 1 and stuck with it in order to be competitive. It's hard to measure, but possible for the number one spot in time trial is without ABS or any other assist. The guy is somewhere out there.

If you want to measure someone's skills with or without assist, do a parity racing. Honesty and clean racing is a must though, set a target lap time, qualify, then do some races, and you'll see their true colors when driving side by side, under pressure and with no advantages. If the guy can still win cleanly without any assist with similar lap time car, he's the real deal 👍
 
Geopan973
So, if he is legit, he must be switching off ABS during the race, in which case I can not check his settings, unless I exit the race and choose "watch race" from the lobby menu.

Could be.

But then, is it possible to be faster overall with ABS turned off? Time trials suggest the opposite.

Hell, I am not a quick driver, I participate the races for the fun of them and I am sure that the said guy is much faster than I am, under all conditions.

But as I stated in a previous post it makes an interesting subject for discussion.
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Most, but not all. Both of these Time Trials were locked at 5 5 brakes with no in track menu to turn ABS back on. Very impressive driving.
 
Voxalizer
Turns out the guy seems to be legit afterall. I've learned from multiple sources that apparently there's a bug in GT5 Online where someone picks another car, but all the other people in the lobby still see him in the car he was previously using.
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I have never seen this, I've been playing since quote literally, day 1.. I've only seen this with mods.. The only way to achieve this (on purpose) is to change a whole bunch of different setting and cause lag in the menus to bypass regulations.. Even at that, the tires still do not make sense.
 
I've played online a lot too, I'd never seen it until a few weeks ago.
 
I've seen the car change thing happen a few times, maybe more.

Also I was told there is a way to change your car settings while still racing online, what exact settings I don't know. Never checked it out.

And lastly, sometimes you get people that are just very quick, on form with a good set up. Been there myself and felt like I was being really annoying because of all the winning. I usually change to a slower car if that is happening. Been on the opposite end where you think the guy is hacking. For example I usually race at the ring 500pp-550pp, there was a guy winning by a very large margin in a BRZ, even the host who isn't usually a moaning type of guy was calling him a hacker! But when I watched his replay it turned out that he had a very short gear ratio which was giving him a big advantage everywhere apart from the back straight.

But added to that he was very fast anyway and on form and other than the gears had a fast car and a good set up. I've since beat him many times.
 
No offense to anyone, but I think most people who play GT online have no idea what the real limits are of different cars and PP limits in the game. Most guys are just not very fast. It's common in most races to see the majority of people in a field, 4-5+ seconds per lap slower than the winner. That's the lap time difference of nearly 100 PP on some tracks. It's rare for me to see anyone in any race come close to the real limits of cars on most tracks. Part of it could be tuning, but based on the replays I've seen most of it comes down to driver skill. When you're 5 seconds off the pace at Deep Forest, I can see how easy it is for people to think the person winning is cheating.
 
Geopan973
So, if he is legit, he must be switching off ABS during the race, in which case I can not check his settings, unless I exit the race and choose "watch race" from the lobby menu.

Could be.

But then, is it possible to be faster overall with ABS turned off? Time trials suggest the opposite.

Hell, I am not a quick driver, I participate the races for the fun of them and I am sure that the said guy is much faster than I am, under all conditions.

But as I stated in a previous post it makes an interesting subject for discussion.
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Even with ABS on, you don't need to apply more brake force than is actually useful. Half the bar is usually more than enough, especially on harder tyre compounds. Regarding brake distance, your front tyres only got a certain amount of grip and the most effective way of using it is to let it do one thing at the time. First braking, and then turning. If you're gonna let it multi-task - braking and turning at the same time - you'll get longer brake distance and more understeer.

So maybe he's just using a good braking technique, which allows him to brake later.
 
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