Any suggestions?

[Perfect Balance]

Hey everyone. Here's the story: My cousin found a 1993 Nissan 240sx for $500. It has good paint, just needs to be buffed, good interior, the engine was swapped and has around 90,000 miles on it, and there isn't any visible rust. A bad thing though, there is something wrong with the automatic transmission, and it doesn't shift until like 4000 rpms. Despite that, I think it is a great bargain. I want a manual anyways, so I could either swap the transmission, or fix this one until I get a job and money to swap the engine, which I plan to do later on.

The catch is, I don't get my licence until the beginning of November, so my dad isn't to excited about buying the car now. The dude selling it said if no one buys it soon, he is just going to take it to an auction and sell it there. Is there anything you guys can come up with to convince my dad that prices for these cars don't get much better than this? I don't know what to do, and I know that he isn't going to want to get a car like this later when there was one for 500 bucks before.

 

[Dave A]

November is only 1 month away, were at the end of September near enough. 1 month isn't a long time to store a car for use. As for the price, is it taxed and MoT'd, that is a good price. 90k miles isn't death to an engine, however some cars do tend to start having one problem after another later in life, you'll want to read up on what faults are known to occur on 240SX's and what to look for to see if the problem is there or any sign of it developing. Lastly you'll want a drive of it, at worst get your dad to have a drive of it, at best (if you have a provisional) you drive it, or if you don't have your provisional try to drive it in a car park somewhere that's private.

The price is very good, but you do need to be sure your not buying a lemon, or a lemon to be. A mate of mine bought a car for £450, the car was great for the first 6 months, since then he's spent over a grand on repairs, now he's had that car for 1 year and is trying to sell it. Me on the other hand, I got a SEAT Ibiza really cheap as my first car, it lasted a couple of years then it got crashed into, then I got a second SEAT Ibiza, drove through Europe a couple of years ago after inheriting some cash and finding myself somehow between jobs, and the engine developed a major problem in Spain, major as in death. The car is still in Spain.

 

[Perfect Balance]

November is only 1 month away, were at the end of September near enough. 1 month isn't a long time to store a car for use. As for the price, is it taxed and MoT'd, that is a good price. 90k miles isn't death to an engine, however some cars do tend to start having one problem after another later in life, you'll want to read up on what faults are known to occur on 240SX's and what to look for to see if the problem is there or any sign of it developing. Lastly you'll want a drive of it, at worst get your dad to have a drive of it, at best (if you have a provisional) you drive it, or if you don't have your provisional try to drive it in a car park somewhere that's private.

The price is very good, but you do need to be sure your not buying a lemon, or a lemon to be. A mate of mine bought a car for £450, the car was great for the first 6 months, since then he's spent over a grand on repairs, now he's had that car for 1 year and is trying to sell it. Me on the other hand, I got a SEAT Ibiza really cheap as my first car, it lasted a couple of years then it got crashed into, then I got a second SEAT Ibiza, drove through Europe a couple of years ago after inheriting some cash and finding myself somehow between jobs, and the engine developed a major problem in Spain, major as in death. The car is still in Spain.

I will drive the car if I get the chance, but the hard part is getting my dad to get up and go look at it with me. I know 240sx's have a major rust problem, so that is what I will be looking for. Under the spoiler, rocker panels, under the battery tray (if possible). The interiors are usually pretty messed up, the seats wear out quickly, almost every 240sx I've seen has a hole on the side of the driver's seat. The car is automatic, so there is the chance that is hasn't been abused as much as it would if it was manual. I will check the oil, how it shifts, steering, everything I can think of. All of my uncles are in some way involved in fixing or selling cars, so I know what to look for, and how to tell if the car has been worked on.

But all of that goes to waste unless I can get my dad to go look at it. That's mainly what I need help with. By the time I do get a car, he is going to just ask my uncle to get something cheap from the auction, which will most likely have all sorts of scratches and dings, and has something wrong with it. Plus, he will blow off around 2000 bucks on something I will end up selling when I get a few bucks.

 

[eiriksmil]

Hey everyone. Here's the story: My cousin found a 1993 Nissan 240sx for $500. It has good paint, just needs to be buffed, good interior, the engine was swapped and has around 90,000 miles on it, and there isn't any visible rust. A bad thing though, there is something wrong with the automatic transmission, and it doesn't shift until like 4000 rpms. Despite that, I think it is a great bargain. I want a manual anyways, so I could either swap the transmission, or fix this one until I get a job and money to swap the engine, which I plan to do later on.

The catch is, I don't get my licence until the beginning of November, so my dad isn't to excited about buying the car now. The dude selling it said if no one buys it soon, he is just going to take it to an auction and sell it there. Is there anything you guys can come up with to convince my dad that prices for these cars don't get much better than this? I don't know what to do, and I know that he isn't going to want to get a car like this later when there was one for 500 bucks before.

Have you looked under? In wheelarches? Rust develops quickly, but the fact that it's no visible rust is a good sign. Right hand drive or left hand drive? Automatic kind of sucks if you ask me, and a swap isn't done in 50 minutes, be aware of that. The thing about first cars, don't do to much on them. You want to drive, not stand in a garage figuring out why it won't go. I don't know the normal price for a 240SX is in the US (I guess your're located there, since you are 16 and getting the licence), but what I do know, you always get what you pay for. Double the money, and you've got better chances of ending up with a decent car.
A tip from me to you. Use very good time on finding your first car. Believe me, jumping on the first train is not a good idea, use time to find exactly what you want. If you like drifting, you're probably going to throw out the interior as fast as you can, to keep weight down. So if the rear seats arent too nice, or if a cracked panel in the rear keeps you from buying another car, think over it again.
By the way, we're talking S13, right? If you end up with a worse car than expected, why not use some time and convert it to a S15 front? Or Silvia front? My biggest concern is that it's an auto, not a beloved manual. Swaps can be both costlier and harder than you thought originally.
I would advise you to join NissanForums.com, look at the 240SX forum there, 240SXForums.com and Nicoclub.com. I'm sure you'll find even more information and opinions there.
I can see your excitement, I was flying high when I got my Daihatsu a year ago, but now I'm sitting with rust holes that are measuring 5 cm from one side to another.
The argument I would have used if I were you is that you will learn a lot, definetly.

I hope you get a 240SX you can be proud of, so choose carefully. Good luck, my friend!


Eirik


By the way, I saw your last post just now. I wouldn't worry about any rust under boot spoiler, that's piece of cake. However, major rustholes under the car, in wheelarches (especially in the rear), fuel tank, that sort of thing, that's the rust you have to worry about. Remember, there's no problem as long as it's on a changeable panel. It's when you have to weld it gets serious.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I'm not jumping on the first car I found. I have been looking for a car for the past 6 months or so. The dude is just trying to get rid of it, he has around 20 cars sitting around his yard, and he doesn't know what to do with them. Also, he was not selling the car, my cousins just saw it and asked him if he would sell it, another reason it is so cheap. Also, the tranny doesn't shift until around 4,500 rpms, but, at a price like that, and a bunch of junkyards around the city, it shouldn't be very costly or hard to find and install a transmission, and if it isn't something too serious, I'm sure my dad could fix it, he has worked on engines his whole life. I have some pics of it, and I can see the driver seat is torn, and it needs some bodywork, but otherwise it doesn't look too bad. I'm going to go check it out tommorow.

EDIT: I already am a member at 240sx forums, though I don't think I have any posts.

 

[eiriksmil]

Looks quite nice. Throw out old seats, replace 'em with two bucket seats. Problem solved
Is the engine leaking a bit oil, around the head gasket?


Eirik

 

[Perfect Balance]

Looks quite nice. Throw out old seats, replace 'em with two bucket seats. Problem solved
Is the engine leaking a bit oil, around the head gasket?


Eirik

The seats can live with seat covers for now, and I can change the seats later. Again, I havn't seen the car yet, this is just pictures my cousin took. I am going to see the car tommorow.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Not to be a party pooper, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Granted, it looks as though it could be a great project car, but I don't think I would be looking to blow $2K+ on a car that cost only $500. I mean sure, it is your money and all, and if it is what you want, so be it.

But heres the thing:

- After a drive, you could find more things wrong with it. I'd be most worried about the transmission myself, and IMO, I don't think it would be something I'd want to get into.
- Have you looked into the fuel economy of the car? Circa 1993, standards were very different than they are today, and it may not be to your liking, even with the four-banger. Added to that, the noted transmission issues could be decreasing your fuel economy as well. Something to look out for...
- Check with your insurance company before you do anything. My guess is that for a 16/17/18 year old guy, insurance is going to be pretty expensive, even with PLPD.
- Added to that, have you looked into repair costs? Parts may be harder to come by these days, and with as many problems that seem to be present, are you willing to spend the money should they need fixing?

I think you could find something better out there for a bit more money, thats just me. Although it may seem like a great deal now, go down the road about a year from now, will you be thinking the same thing? Will the 240SX still be the cool car for kids to have?

Yes, I am indeed a party-pooper, and I'm sorry. But generally speaking, I think you're going to be much better off digging for a Honda Prelude or Toyota Celica of the same era. If you want to find something a bit more "solid," check out the VW Corrado of the same period as well. But, if RWD is your preference, the old MX-5 isn't a bad choise. Even then, you can find old Celica/Supras for pretty cheap as well, and those seem to hold together quite well over time. Of course, you can always go with your average Fox or F-Body as well...

 

[retsmah]

I think it could be a good deal if you were going to swap in a turbo motor. Also, do you know what goes into swapping an automatic transmission for a manual? That could be a lot of work.

But I'd go look at it first, make decisions after seeing the car.

 

[Perfect Balance]

...Not to be a party pooper, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Granted, it looks as though it could be a great project car, but I don't think I would be looking to blow $2K+ on a car that cost only $500. I mean sure, it is your money and all, and if it is what you want, so be it.

But heres the thing:

- After a drive, you could find more things wrong with it. I'd be most worried about the transmission myself, and IMO, I don't think it would be something I'd want to get into.
- Have you looked into the fuel economy of the car? Circa 1993, standards were very different than they are today, and it may not be to your liking, even with the four-banger. Added to that, the noted transmission issues could be decreasing your fuel economy as well. Something to look out for...
- Check with your insurance company before you do anything. My guess is that for a 16/17/18 year old guy, insurance is going to be pretty expensive, even with PLPD.
- Added to that, have you looked into repair costs? Parts may be harder to come by these days, and with as many problems that seem to be present, are you willing to spend the money should they need fixing?

I think you could find something better out there for a bit more money, thats just me. Although it may seem like a great deal now, go down the road about a year from now, will you be thinking the same thing? Will the 240SX still be the cool car for kids to have?

Yes, I am indeed a party-pooper, and I'm sorry. But generally speaking, I think you're going to be much better off digging for a Honda Prelude or Toyota Celica of the same era. If you want to find something a bit more "solid," check out the VW Corrado of the same period as well. But, if RWD is your preference, the old MX-5 isn't a bad choise. Even then, you can find old Celica/Supras for pretty cheap as well, and those seem to hold together quite well over time. Of course, you can always go with your average Fox or F-Body as well...

You seem to think I am noob when it comes to buying cars. All of my relatives are somehow related to the car business, so I know what to look for. I was checking under the car, the suspension, the paint, under the carpets inside the car, looking inside the head at the camshafts, looking for oil on the engine. I know what to look for.

The transmission is also not a problem, my dad can put a car together from scratch, and the dude is also giving us another transmission along with the car, but it has been sitting for a while and needs new seals. I drove the car, and the engine runs good, but Idles kinda bad, it needs a new MAF sensor. The transmission doesn't shift until like 4,500 rpms, and it jerks when it does, and the wheels need to be balanced. All that put together shouldn't cost more than $1,500 to fix since we will be fixing it ourselves, so it should still end up being cheaper than buying one in with a good transmission, since the rest of the car is almost perfect, no rust whatsoever.

As for getting another car, I have never even seen a VW Corrado in person before, and my friends Miata feels really cramped, since I'm a little over 6ft tall, and weight around 175lb. If I wanted FWD, I would get a B13 Sentra SE-R. The F-body mustangs are just not the type of car I am looking for, I'm not too excited about 5.0 liter engines and horsepower. The Celica and Supra just don't have the aftermarket that I want, and getting one in the same condition as a 240sx for the same price is hard for me. I only see a few around town each month. I was thinking an MR-2, but they are only 2 seater, and another one of my friends, who works at an auction, he said only a few of them come around each month, and they go for high prices.

Repair costs shouldn't be too hard either, I can easily find a parts car from an auction, and parts arn't too expensive for 240sxs.

My dad is going to go sometime and check it out, he knows a lot about fixing cars, so he is going to check if it is worth buying and fixing.

EDIT: It is is going to cost around the same to fix as buying another one in the same condition, then I am most likely going to wait, because I really want a manual.

EDIT #2: There is oil all over the engine bay, but none on the acual engine, and the dude selling it said it was because the old engine blew a head gasket, and that's why they swapped it. The engine has like 90,000 miles on it, and runs good, but the transmission has 210,000.

 

[Wolfe]

Yes, I am indeed a party-pooper, and I'm sorry.

You're too nice to be a party-pooper, YSSMAN. You should see the way hopeful, naive, teenaged prospective RX-7 buyers are treated by anyone who knows the truth about those cars.

The transmission is also not a problem, my dad can put a car together from scratch, and the dude is also giving us another transmission along with the car, but it has been sitting for a while and needs new seals. I drove the car, and the engine runs good, but Idles kinda bad, it needs a new MAF sensor. The transmission doesn't shift until like 4,500 rpms, and it jerks when it does, and the wheels need to be balanced. All that put together shouldn't cost more than $1,500 to fix since we will be fixing it ourselves, so it should still end up being cheaper than buying one in with a good transmission, since the rest of the car is almost perfect, no rust whatsoever.

It still may be worth it to wait for a 240SX that has a manual transmission. Doing so would save you from the trouble of making the swap, although you may end up with a car that has other issues (after all, it is a Nissan, so the fact that you found one with very little rust is nothing short of an absolute miracle ).

From what you've told us, the transmission is the only thing that's keeping me from automatically (pun unintended) saying "go for it!!"

Repair costs shouldn't be too hard either, I can easily find a parts car from an auction, and parts arn't too expensive for 240sxs.

Aww, you're looking forward to (fairly) low-priced and easy-to-find parts? There goes my idea of suggesting European alternatives...

Are you sure you wouldn't want an old 240 instead? A Volvo 240DL, that is. They're safe, reliable, unique, and RWD.

 

[Perfect Balance]

From what you've told us, the transmission is the only thing that's keeping me from automatically (pun unintended) saying "go for it!!"

That is the only thing that realy sucks. I looked up the problems on the internet, and the shift problem seems to be a bad throttle position sensor, and the jerky shifts is because of some wire on the side of the engine being disconnected. The rough idle is because the IAA needs to be cleaned or replaced. When I go look at it with my dad, I'm gonna check all this stuff out.

 

[blargonator]

what general part of the u.s. are you located?
if your on the westcoast i'd say go for it in a heart beat, if not i'd wait a little bit and start the search for something else.
a lot of the time things like swaps get pushed further and further back until we completely give up.

don't settle for something that is not the kind of car you want. i've gone through 5 cars in the past year and i'm not much older than you (17). i finally have something i love, but it took a while to get there.
off topic, but its kind of sad the favorite car i have owned is also the slowest by far. '82 toyota starlet <8- )

 

[Wolfe]

Speed isn't everything. And I agree, it's really nice when your first car is one that you really like. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had ended up with a Chevrolet Corsica or something.

 

[Keef]

Hey PB, nice to see you found a car you could actually get. 240s can be nice cars if they're in good shape, especially mechanical wise but just about every tuner guy's 240 around here burns something that it shouldn't--usually oil. Those engines seem to have a lot of problems.

And a transmission swap would be unbelievably difficult and time consuming. I'd say a price for that would be at least a few thousand dollars. All the parts--the tranny, the clutch, the flywheel, any electronics, probably different ECU tuning, the pedals (clutch and brake) the clutch and shift linkage, the interior trim pieces, all the bracketry and hardware to hold it together, maybe even different exhaust routing or that kind of stuff. Not to mention the labor, which would be a couple days most likely. It's expensive stuff, especially considering that a new fender, door, mirror, and paint for my Del was over $1800.

 

[Slicks]

While I'm not saying 'No', per se, I will say this:
It's hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

It's an old saying. You've probably heard it before. And it applies to a car like this. It fits the general criteria of what you'd like, but isn't that close. It's got a swapped engine (Can be very scary if the wrong people did it), transmission problems (on an automatic, no less), body damage on the right front quarter, and stained seats.
To add to it, I will ask how the tires look. Bald? How's the exhaust? Is the steering nice and tight? CV Axles good? While all of these seem minor and inconsequential, they do add up to make right. I don't know where you are, but I will say that the insurance won't be all that cheap.
Lastly, how long do you intend to keep this car? In general, you won't get the price of the parts back when you go to sell a car. This means that your car still won't be worth what you think it is when you go to sell it down the road. If you're going to keep it for years, then it's not that big of a deal. If you're looking at short-term ownership, then it might just be so.

My humble advice would be to pass on it. Wait until you have a bit more money, and you find exactly what you want. You'll be much happier with the result, and your wallet will go to thank you when you sell it. Because, in all honesty, you are not going to get as much for a hackjob car (Replaced engine and transmission) as you will for a working original.

 

[Jay]

The picture you have posted shows the 240sx has the Japanese red top SR20 generation front bumper on it, I was under the impression all 240sx's had the older CA18 style front bumper.

(after all, it is a Nissan, so the fact that you found one with very little rust is nothing short of an absolute miracle ).

You guys have alot of rust issues in the US?

Most 180sx's/silvia's and other general 90's Nissans are rust free here.

And a transmission swap would be unbelievably difficult and time consuming. I'd say a price for that would be at least a few thousand dollars. All the parts--the tranny, the clutch, the flywheel, any electronics, probably different ECU tuning, the pedals (clutch and brake) the clutch and shift linkage, the interior trim pieces, all the bracketry and hardware to hold it together, maybe even different exhaust routing or that kind of stuff. Not to mention the labor, which would be a couple days most likely. It's expensive stuff, especially considering that a new fender, door, mirror, and paint for my Del was over $1800.

Actually the auto-manual trans conversion is not all that difficult at all, it is done often over here. Once you buy the correct parts, it's pretty much straight bolt up, not sure about the US but the parts are cheap here.

Shift linkages are internal, on the manual, you just need to remove the auto shifter, the ECU and exhaust is the same. Well it is on Japanese RHD models, LHD may have differed but Im sure the info is available on 240sx forums.

 

[Wolfe]

You guys have alot of rust issues in the US?

Most 180sx's/silvia's and other general 90's Nissans are rust free here.

Just comedic hyperbole, although around these parts, Nissans seem to be the worst offenders of any Japanese manufacturer when it comes to rust.

The salt that is used to clear the road of snow/ice is what kills our cars.

 

[niky]

I'd imagine most Australians wouldn't know rust if they saw it... it's such a dry country...

But all kidding aside, I've heard lots of Nissan horror stories about rust in the US because of the salt thing... and even here, when we had an old S11 (??? hope that's right), we had it stripped down and metal plates welded in where rust had eaten the floorboards.

I'm a bit iffy on buying an AT car at that age, but the price is so good, and the absence of rust is so encouraging, that I'd say... maybe... the change can go to a tranny swap.

But then, tranny swaps are always a headache... if you can find a similar condition MT for a slightly higher price, go for that one instead.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I see everyone keeps saying that I will have to put a lot of money into the car. Everything that needs to be fixed on the car can be done by my dad or one of my uncles for free or a very low price. I manual transmission swap only costs around 300-500 bucks for this, and it is not very complicated, I've seen it done before, and I'm not particularaly worried about the body right now, it doesn't affect the car's normal way of functioning.

My dad still doesn't want to go check it out. He said he can just ask one of my uncles to get one from the auction. I keep telling him that people don't just give away perfectly fine cars to auctions, and then sell them for around the price it will cost to buy and fix this one, which shouldn't be more than 1,500 dollars, and I'm including stuff like an oil change and new filters. The only thing keeping him from getting it is because he will have to work on it, he doesn't really enjoy fixing cars anymore.

Well, his own loss I think, I told him if he decides later that he doesn't want to pay 2,000 for a decent 240sx, then it will be his own fault, since he didn't feel like taking a chance when there was one. And even then, if I get one from the auction, it will probably have all sorts of dings in it, and it will probably have rust, since that's a big issue with these cars.

 

[Flerbizky]

I'm Sorry - But a 240sx with Auto is like dick flavored ice cream.... Leave it be..

 

[Perfect Balance]

I'm Sorry - But a 240sx with Auto is like dick flavored ice cream.... Leave it be..

Yes I know.

But for the price I could swap it to manual and still pay less than I would for a manual one in good condition.

 

[Flerbizky]

Yes I know.

But for the price I could swap it to manual and still pay less than I would for a manual one in good condition.

Another thing is. If it has done it's life playing auto, who knows how many times it has been forced to play with the rev limiter ?..

I wouldn't trust it at all unless it belonged to my granny...

 

[Perfect Balance]

Another thing is. If it has done it's life playing auto, who knows how many times it has been forced to play with the rev limiter ?..

I wouldn't trust it at all unless it belonged to my granny...

Well, they are usually way less abused than manual ones, and the engine only has like 90,000 miles on it and runs perfect. It was also owned by a woman.

 

[niky]

There's that. An automatic 240sx is very unlikely to be abused... in fact, guys looking to set-up 240sx's for SR20DET swaps often look for old ATs. I didn't consider it.

And if your Dad can help with a tranny swap and it'll cost you little, I say go for it. 👍