Assists and the new engine

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sven
  • 18 comments
  • 1,101 views
S

Sven

Messages
1,087
With the recent reports surfacing on the new, hyperrealistic physics engine for GT4, it has me wondering about what role assists will play in the game. In GT3, every car came stock with ASM, TCS, and ABS. In GT4, will the status of these things vary from car to car, and will they cost as much to install as they did in GT2? Will they offer more help than they ever did before, with the new engine being so sensitive?

What kind of n00b assists will there be? Will you be able to turn on permanent ABS for arcade mode, or even sim mode? Or will it vary by the selected difficulty or league (and will you be able to turn them off if they are on by default)? And how will these kind of n00b assists be handled online?

Most importantly, what kind of advantages will a wheel offer? And what kind of advantages will a controller offer? Will ABS be on by default all the time while using a controller? Will the stick still steer the same way it always has, and only send the wheels to full lock when stopped? Will you still be on the same kind of bleeding edge of control with the controller as you are with the wheel? Will you still have to the same kind of feedback with the controller as with the wheel? Will not having steering feedback really hurt your performance? How much of an advantage will the wheel really offer this time around?
 
As far as the assists go I doubt they'll be different to GT3's, however the wheel offers far more control over your car than the pad, and with the level of realism GT4 has according to that article in Cobra's thread, it will be the first time on a console where the wheel will be faster to driv with than the pad due to the higher level of control.
 
I really think the wheel will provide a much better, and easier time. As said before, yes, the physics have become insanely realistic, so I say the wheel will provide a better advantage, allowing you to have more exact steering, accel and brakin inputs. Since "smooth is fast", the wheel can be "faster". I'll give you an example. In a sweeper (long, "sweeping" turn) Too much steering adjustment can make the car understeer or spin out. Given the much smoother control you can have with the wheel, it makes it easier to control. I believe it will be much easier to hold the car on the edge of control with the wheel. Jerky, fast inputs upset the car's balance. The wheel offers a WAY bigger range of motion, not liek the controller where even the sticks can sometimes give way too large inputs.

Regarding the ASM and TCS, I haven't heard too much about it, But I figure it will come standard, and in a worst case, you'll have to buy it for your car. Hopefully not at the insanely high prices from GT2, though. It WOULD be fun to have the cars on the realistic side, where old cars such as the AE86 Levin don't come with ASM and TCS standard.
 
In GT2 it was only 10k each, I couldn't care less if I have to buy it because not many of my cars would ever have TCS, and none of them would have ASM. On second thoughs if the physics are that much more real then TCS might be a lot more useful in GT4 than inGT3.
 
I know that the wheel has smoother control, and would be better to use in theory, but I'm wondering if it will give extra steering assists to those not fortunate enough to have one. I mean, I'd love to have every advantage I can, but I hate to see people shafted because they don't have the kind of money they're asking for the hardware.
 
Exactly, i'd love to get the wheel but to be honest I can't justify paying around £100 for one. I have an old driving force, but after years of controller racing i'm still finding it hard to ajust even in prologue so I hope that they don't make it impossible to run as fast with a controller.
 
Hey, what do you guys think: with the improved and more realistic physics, will we need to correct the steering of powerful RWD cars (zonda, mclaren f1 etc.) while accelerating from a standstill because the rear end tries to break out?
 
Sven
I know that the wheel has smoother control, and would be better to use in theory, but I'm wondering if it will give extra steering assists to those not fortunate enough to have one. I mean, I'd love to have every advantage I can, but I hate to see people shafted because they don't have the kind of money they're asking for the hardware.
Click to expand...
The wheel doesn't give you any assists, it takes them all away, exept the ones you can select on or off like TCS and ASM, when you use the pad your car is more stable to compensate for the lack of control a pad gives you, however this added stability may not be as big an advantage as the extra control the wheel gives.
 
...You know I think you walk a dangerous line when you make it so a game is harder to access with the standard controller. How many DS2s are there? Millions and millions. How many people own wheels? The comparative rate is miniscule. You make the game harder to access for the majority and you're not going to do well. I'm all for realism but when it gets in the way of fun and level competition, that's lame.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the rear end of powerful cars snap away under acceleration, and then we can have people go on about how it stole that from NFSU or something.
 
If the rear does start to snap out under heavy acceleration it will make the drag strip far more enjoyable and engaging... Drag racing does involve steering as well...

On the DS2 vs DFP debate... I suspect that the wheel will be the best way of playing the game but the DS2 will still be fun to play with... I suspect that only the really dedicated people on the wheel will get better times than DS2... but if they dedicated that time to the DS2 then their times would probs be pretty high too... it's a difficult question to ask as there is no real way of testing it... I think it will all be down to personal preference (& Finance!) I could afford a wheel but my lounge isn't set up in a way that I would be able to use it short of putting it on the coffee table... and then my ass wouldn't be comfortable... therefore I won't be buying it!!

C.
 
yeti
On the DS2 vs DFP debate... I suspect that the wheel will be the best way of playing the game but the DS2 will still be fun to play with... I suspect that only the really dedicated people on the wheel will get better times than DS2... but if they dedicated that time to the DS2 then their times would probs be pretty high too...
C.
Click to expand...

It takes longer to get used to the wheel than a controller, so at first your times will be c**p.
Tracks like Fuji where you have long high speed sweeping curves are the first ones where you will notice your times improve. As on the controller there is a tendency to twitch the car to try and keep the line. The DFP allows you to hold the line beautifully :)
Citta di Aria on the other hand takes a long time to get right with the DFP as you really have to work hard throwing the wheel around in the S bends, whereas full scale deflection on the DS2 is about 2 inches!
The precision you get with the DFP is far better than the DS2, for example if you want to move your car 1 metre to the left to get a better approach, this is not so easy with the DS2 as its too easy to oversteer, and recorrect etc.

IMO once you have practised with the DFP all your times should improve, (smoother braking and accell with the pedals rather than little buttons as well), of course it does depend on who is holding the DS2 or DFP as to which is faster :)

I'm sure Flinx could still kick my butt with the tiny DS2 buttons :lol:
 
DFP wheel allows you to make faster times then with DS2, but it also forces you to drive far more accurate.

I'll take for example Citta di Aria course with Lancia (final exam at purple level of Prologue) where you can easily reach gold with wheel, just by using its fabulous 900 degree turning. On the other side, you must be very good with judging the right breaking and turning time because it is so much different then with the controller.

As with DS2, you must do line-corrections all the time, but it is also easier to drive in total, except you must have a total luck to drive all corners flawlessly in licence time.

Fizios' friend manage to drive that licence 3 seconds (in words: three seconds) faster then gold time using the wheel, so it is some improvement though.

I agree with Eagle about the acessibility, but then again GT4 will have two options for the wheel - you'll be able to use "old" GT Force and Driving Force wheels (which correspond with controller turning capabilities), and other with new GT Force Pro wheel. With DS2 you'll be able to reach goolds, drive nice and so on, but DFP is something worth every penny. I'll post the video of Fizios' Nurb drive with DFP tommorow, so you'll be able to see some of DFP capabilities.
 
Ive never been a big fan of wheels for games, Im a pad boy through and through, but just to say that ive never driven with assists on in any racing game because i find they slow me down and i hope that they dont make certain stuff compusary ie. if ur in beginers league you must have TCS & ASC, and for thr comment's on a wheel giving you greater controlle, well maybe it dose but i can feather a throttle and break's and the steering in GT3 & GT4:P with the buttons, i dont even use the sticks :yuck: . but i would love to try a wheel for GT4 but as said abouve I dont see the point in spending £60 or up for a ok to good wheel just to play a game.
 
The wheel(DFP) brings a whole new dimension and sense of reality, especially if you are a driver in real life.

Ive been playing driving games for about 20 odd years with all sorts of controllers, and not one of them has come as close to replicating the real thing, as this wheel does.

The feedback and precision input the wheel gives you, can never be reproduced in a pad.

The pad assits make it more stable to control, but the sense of feeling and achievement when you get a good run in with the wheel is so satisfying.

sprite
but i would love to try a wheel for GT4 but as said abouve I dont see the point in spending £60 or up for a ok to good wheel just to play a game.
Click to expand...

The wheel is more than an O.K wheel and is definateley worth the investment.
 
The only reason that I don't want a wheel is because I don't see myself that bad on the DS2!.......I can still win races and drive well so I don't see the point! I have a real car with real steering and I don't want the DFP to influence the way I handle a wheel......it could end up being quite dangerous! :scared:
 
GT4 will be the first game I'll bother to actually buy a wheel for. I enjoy the pad, but I do admit getting frustrated trying to keep a nice smooth line around a gentle curve. I'm hoping it will add an whole new element to the experience for me. 👍
 
^......I suppose that is the way to go if you want reality :) 👍
 
I usually race 90% of the cars in GT3 with driver aids off. It seems silly to have say a 62hp mini with traction control. But it makes sense to have an F1 car with traction control, at least the option. Driver aids should always be an option for those who want or need them but also certian cars shouldn't have certian option. Like a Cobra, you didn't have traction control or ABS on those back in the day. That is what made them a challenge to drive and also what made people love them. Same with muscle cars. But a 2003 supercar like an Enzo you would expect to have ll the gizmos available but also the ability to turn them off and let the back end go wild (haha).
 
I really do want (like what the real cars have) to have a sport/race button which turns off the electronic traction thingy's in a race (no going into menus or restarting) so that I can let the car loose when I need it too! 👍
 
Back