Audi r10 tdi glitch???

[signmc]

Been able to drive the TDI and there are I fiew things that im unsure of that could be wrong with GT5's version of the car.

Ok it will redline to 7000 RPM! Now is this what the real thing is like or is it way to much. Most of you will know that generly Derv's dont rev past 5.5k to 6k RPM as either they run out of steam or the engines have to be capped at that speed, this also seems to reflect on the noise the engine makes, it sceams unlike a derv when at 7000 rpm. And can a TDI let of flames from the exhuast on the over run?

What do you guys think?

 

[THEPUNISHER]

I dont know about this but i dont like the noise the r8 v8 its like nascar

 

[teecro]

.....And can a TDI let of flames from the exhuast on the over run?

Every car has the flames shoot out when you downshift in game.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Except for the Alfa 155 and both of my Elise (Elises? Elise'? Elisae?) for some reason.

 

[C-ZETA]

Except for the Alfa 155

In GT4 I think you got backfire coming upwards from the exhausts on the 155.

 

[Brock1Samson9]

Well I'm not sure about the redline of the actual car but the sound is miles off. Its too loud and it revs higher than the actual car. Again though I dont know about the actual numbers


Also the maximum rear ride height for the R10 is apparently -10 according to the game. Strange huh?

 

[C-ZETA]

Fixed.

 

[G.T.Ace]

In GT4 I think you got backfire coming upwards from the exhausts on the 155.

Which is correct, since the pipes point upward (although the flames wouldn't be straight up in the air of course in real life, but that's hard to program).

 

[Exorcet]

Which is correct, since the pipes point upward (although the flames wouldn't be straight up in the air of course in real life, but that's hard to program).

The flames are just a bunch 2D drawings. Making them curve wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Reaper190]

I'm not sure whether this is right or not but doesn't diesels rev lower then other engine types (ie... Unleaded)

 

[G.T.Ace]

The flames are just a bunch 2D drawings. Making them curve wouldn't be a big deal.

Not in GT4, but in GT5 you would have to do it with all the dozens of flames the game has and curved flames at low speed would look strange too. Not to mention that it would be extra work just for one car.

 

[Antonisbob]

In real life the diesels don't shoot flames like they do in GT5, atleast that's what I heard.

 

[shirakawaa]

In real life the diesels don't shoot flames like they do in GT5, atleast that's what I heard.

On racing diesel engines for tractor pulling competitions or otherwide diesel engines tuned without compromises for maximum power it can happen that unburnt soot particulate burns outside the engine, after being exhausted, due to temperatures and other factors (retarded fuel injection timing, etc). However when that happens there's also much, much, much smoke.

So yes, except in very extreme situations, diesel engines, even racing ones, don't normally shoot flames.

Ok 1st of all it will redline to 7000 RPM! Now is this what the real thing is like or is it way to much.

The real thing should have peak power at around 5000 rpm and not be able to go much over 5500 rpm.
I tried analyzing the spectrum of the video posted above; usually I can get rpm data fairly accurately, but in this cases there are too many "overtones" that make it hard for me to determine how high the engine actually runs in-race.

 

[Dennisch]

The R10 engine has peak power between 3000 and 5000 rpm.

R10

 

[shirakawaa]

The R10 engine has peak power between 3000 and 5000 rpm.

R10

It could be that it can even reach 6000 rpm, but 7000 rpm (still putting out useful amounts of power among other things) are out of question in my opinion, unless PD wanted to approximate the fact that diesel engines don't really have "rev limiters" (at least not as in petrol engines) by setting it for this car unreasonably high. They haven't done the same for carburator-equipped gasoline engine however (notably, muscle cars).

 

[niky]

Street diesels are generally limiited to 4500 rpm - 5500 rpm. Some get close to 6000 rpm.

The only reason they're limited thus is because they usually peak between 3000-4000 rpm, and the turbo trim used to achieve that peak falls off the power rather quickly afterwards.

The problem with revving diesels higher is that there's little time for the injection-compression-ignition event... but you can get around this with really high pressure pumps and ultra-fine injector nozzles... both of which the Audi R10 and R15 can use, thanks to the special synthetic fuel Shell makes for them.

The R10 TDi is rumored to be able to hit between 6500 and 8000 rpm, but since Audi doesn't release detailed technical data on redline and power curve, I don't think we'll know.

Since PD received technical data from Audi, I don't think PD were shooting completely in the dark when they modelled the engine and powerband.

 

[shirakawaa]

Street diesels are generally limiited to 4500 rpm - 5500 rpm. Some get close to 6000 rpm.

Some street stock turbodiesel barely get over 5000 rpm but that's about it. Unless you are referring to tuned engines or older naturally aspirated indirect injection engines (which run at slightly highe rpm), I've never heard of street diesel engines that can get close to 6000 rpm, and where I live 50% of new cars have been diesel engined until not too long ago.

[...]The R10 TDi is rumored to be able to hit between 6500 and 8000 rpm, but since Audi doesn't release detailed technical data on redline and power curve, I don't think we'll know.

There's quite a difference between 6500 and 8000 rpm on a turbodiesel engine.
6500 rpm might be possible (with very little power output), but 8000 sounds impossible.

Since PD received technical data from Audi, I don't think PD were shooting completely in the dark when they modelled the engine and powerband.

PD supposedly received technical data from BMW for the 163 hp 120d as well, but that car revs significantly higher than the real life model (which is supposed to be limited to around 4700 rpm in stock form) and too easily.

http://www.chippedire.com/download/vagdrivers/120d163hp.jpg

Allow me the benefit of doubt regarding how PD modeled diesel engines in Gran Turismo. After all, in Japan essentially only trucks are diesel engined, it's possible they don't have any experience at all with them.

 

[SkateNj]

The R10 engine has peak power between 3000 and 5000 rpm.

R10

its says the peak power of it is 232 BHP.
Im calling BS for a car able to pull 220 before the 1st mulsanne chicane
i just cant fathom a 232 BHP diesl doing that

 

[Enzo309]

Been able to drive the TDI and there are I fiew things that im unsure of that could be wrong with GT5's version of the car.

Ok 1st of all it will redline to 7000 RPM! Now is this what the real thing is like or is it way to much. Most of you will know that generly Derv's dont rev past 5.5k to 6k RPM as either they run out of steam or the engines have to be capped at that speed, this also seems to reflect on the noise the engine makes, it sceams unlike a derv when at 7000 rpm. And can a TDI let of flames from the exhuast on the over run?

What do you guys think?

its a turbo diesel 12 cylinder that's why it revs up to 6000 rpm

 

[ItsHim]

Heavier engine combined with the ignition delay limits the maximum revs for 4 stroke Diesels around 5000 revs in road cars.

I see no reason why race diesels, which should be made much lighter than their road going brothers, should not be able to rev higher alone because of the less weight. They don't come with a 100.000 km warranty either so max revs about 7000 seem not too far fetched. However above that I don't think the ignition delay can be further reduced for 4 stroke Diesels.

 

[thesrdic]

its says the peak power of it is 232 BHP.
Im calling BS for a car able to pull 220 before the 1st mulsanne chicane
i just cant fathom a 232 BHP diesl doing that

Thats probably pre-turbo, I think the real figure would be around the 600 mark

 

[signmc]

well to me the video confirms my thoughts, sound's like any other tuned deisel being driven hard, does not scream like the model does in gt5

Dervs growl they do not scream. And I just cant see any reason for it to need to rev really high, Dervs are all about grunt (torque) not horsepower and you get most of the torque in derv's from low down the rev range.

 

[Tume]

its says the peak power of it is 232 BHP.
Im calling BS for a car able to pull 220 before the 1st mulsanne chicane
i just cant fathom a 232 BHP diesl doing that

Take another look. That particular bit isn't actually written about the R10 TDI, it's a comparison of two different Audi A6 engines, gasoline vs diesel.

 

[Enzo309]

Heavier engine combined with the ignition delay limits the maximum revs for 4 stroke Diesels around 5000 revs in road cars.

I see no reason why race diesels, which should be made much lighter than their road going brothers, should not be able to rev higher alone because of the less weight. They don't come with a 100.000 km warranty either so max revs about 7000 seem not too far fetched. However above that I don't think the ignition delay can be further reduced for 4 stroke Diesels.

Why race diesel?? efficient and a lot of torque but GT5 doesn't simulate fuel consumption or maximum fuel load so it won't be beneficial and diesel is the biggest part of audi tdi's , Endurance Le mans races are very long.

In Le Man's all aids in the world are allowed and put to the car so having a lot of torque and traction control is a good combination but still other LMP's have petrol engines and are more powerful.

 

[ItsHim]

Why race diesel?? efficient and a lot of torque but GT5 doesn't simulate fuel consumption or maximum fuel load so it won't be beneficial and diesel is the biggest part of audi tdi's , Endurance Le mans races are very long.

In Le Man's all aids in the world are allowed and put to the car so having a lot of torque and traction control is a good combination but still other LMP's have petrol engines and are more powerful.

Because we can? The Seat diesel used to be rather successful in the BTCC.

In GT5 all cars have 100 litres tanks and fuel consumption is, though a tad generic, simulated.

A diesel is not necessarily more economic than a petrol engine in race situations, but it's rather fun trying. Shame theres only the 1 series BMW in the game.

 

[Enzo309]

Because we can? The Seat diesel used to be rather successful in the BTCC.

In GT5 all cars have 100 litres tanks and fuel consumption is, though a tad generic, simulated.

A diesel is not necessarily more economic than a petrol engine in race situations, but it's rather fun trying. Shame theres only the 1 series BMW in the game.

but Audi's TDI engines are a lot more efficient than any other LMP1's that has petrol engines and that's the biggest advantage that comes from their engine and that's why they've won many times.

and you won't see trying for fun in motorsports , there's no excess in top levels of motorsports.

 

[posimosh]

Ok so according to the interviews that i have heard on midweek motorsport and in Racecar Engineering (specifically the "R-15 'plus') Audi and Peugeot engines operate on the same principle of a flattish torque curve that peaks low and gradually decreases as Rpms rise. Hp numbers are even flatter probably for drive-ability (as the deisels are tuned to exploit their torque advantage over petrol). The best explanation that I have heard that describes how one drives one of these is to invert your thinking as to "where the power is", before Zuhai last year (where it was wet) Davidson said basically it is hard to retrain your brain to use high rpms and a higher gear in order to have predictable traction under acceleration. So, if you want acceleration you would do the equivalent of a short shift in a petrol car and use higher revs at points in which the car has low traction (around corners wet etc.) Someone earlier said that the "redline" was between 6500rpm. Racing cars don't have "redlines" like road cars, However, they tune these cars to operate at their peak in a certain range to maximize performance without blowing up an engine. Racing cars also use solid lifters on the camshafts in the engine and thus could hypothetically rev til the engine flys apart unlike the hydrolic lifters in roadcars where the power and compression of the engine cuts out at a certain point. In anycase, I'm sure that gt5 is accurate (but not that accurate in this regard

 

[CSLACR]

Street diesels are generally limiited to 4500 rpm - 5500 rpm. Some get close to 6000 rpm.

The only reason they're limited thus is because they usually peak between 3000-4000 rpm, and the turbo trim used to achieve that peak falls off the power rather quickly afterwards.

The problem with revving diesels higher is that there's little time for the injection-compression-ignition event... but you can get around this with really high pressure pumps and ultra-fine injector nozzles... both of which the Audi R10 and R15 can use, thanks to the special synthetic fuel Shell makes for them.

The R10 TDi is rumored to be able to hit between 6500 and 8000 rpm, but since Audi doesn't release detailed technical data on redline and power curve, I don't think we'll know.

Since PD received technical data from Audi, I don't think PD were shooting completely in the dark when they modelled the engine and powerband.

I hope that's true, and it sounds reasonable, but I swear I recall hearing Audi say it would peak between 4-5K...
In any case I wouldn't call it impossible to reach 7K, but I doubt the powerband is quite that high, maybe a 6-6500 rpm shift point at best I would assume, I take what racing manufacture claim with a grain of salt, it's pretty easy to make kids eyes grow large by saying, "Up to xxx blah blah blah!" without ever having to prove it. (the manufacture)

Just my two cents.

^^On the fuel economy bits above my post, anybody watch Top Gear do the 24 hour race? 3 hours on a tank of diesel anyone?