Australia's greatest race driver

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TRIPLE Formula One world champion Sir Jack Brabham has edged Peter Brock to be voted Australia's greatest motor racing driver by Auto Action magazine.

The global judging panel was made up of motor sports critics, technical experts and drivers, including current Formula One driver Mark Webber and V8 Supercars icon Craig Lowndes.

Brabham beat Brock by just 20 points to rank No.1 in the "Top 100 Australian Drivers" list, which will be published today.

Australia's only other Formula One world champion, Alan Jones, ranked a close third.

"It was always going to be an interesting battle between Sir Jack Brabham and Peter Brock for the top spot, comparing the exploits of our finest Formula One driver with the home-grown hero of Bathurst," Andrew MacLean, editor of Auto Action, said.

Although retired from V8 Supercars racing, the versatile Jim Richards came in at No.4 to be the leading driver that actively participates in motor sports today.

His former pupil, five-time touring car champion and six-time Bathurst winner Mark Skaife, was the highest placed current V8 Supercars driver in fifth position, ahead of Ford rival Lowndes, who finished ninth.

Top 10
1 Sir Jack Brabham 741
2 Peter Brock 721
3 Alan Jones 714
4 Jim Richards 634
5 Mark Skaife 620
6 Larry Perkins 603
7 Frank Gardner 574
8 Allan Moffat 559
9 Craig Lowndes 528
10 Frank Matich 518



Brockie should have won it :(
 
Maybe, but he never did fully dominate the sport after his last Bathurst win. I guess I would've said Brocky anyway, but only because I remember him racing, unlike Jack, who was a bit before my time.

I'm not sure of Skaife's position either. I would've put Lowndes ahead of Skaife. Sure, Skaife has been around longer and (thus) won more races but the fact remains his people skills are below par.... to say the least. Lowndes is the people's champion, no matter what car he drives. Lowndes is the complete racer 👍
 
4 Jim Richards 634
Is a New Zealander!

Why do Australians always say he's an Aussie?! :grumpy:

I'd put Lowndes ahead of Skaife, as per Redgodzila's post. Lowndes just seems to get the crowds going much more and seems to get along with his fans better too.
 
Richards a New Zealander! Didn't know that! Sorry mate, our media seem to claim every famous face from across the Tasman as our own :guilty: .
 
Maybe, but he never did fully dominate the sport after his last Bathurst win.
erm well how did he manage to finish in the ATCC

1988 5th
1989 3rd
1990 2nd
1991 6th
1992 11th
1993 8th
1994 3rd
1995 3rd
1996 4th
1997 6th

fair enough not total dominance but credit where credits due you dont see many driver that were brock's age still coming up with results like that and then also winning the bathurst 24hr race in 2003 and then on to finish 4th and 6th in the nations monaro at the age of 58 and 59 respectively.

I'm not sure of Skaife's position either. I would've put Lowndes ahead of Skaife. Sure, Skaife has been around longer and (thus) won more races but the fact remains his people skills are below par.... to say the least. Lowndes is the people's champion, no matter what car he drives. Lowndes is the complete racer 👍

sorry but i personally lost all respect for lowndes(dont get me wrong i think hes a great driver and i loved the red hot go programme) but at the end of last season when lowndes said he considered himself as the real champion last year.
 
Richards a New Zealander! Didn't know that!
You learn something new every day :sly:

Redgodzila
our media seem to claim every famous face from across the Tasman as our own :guilty: .
Indeed you Aussies do :lol:

Jim and Steven Richards, Craig Baird (although some of you do rightfully call him a Kiwi), and the Americans try to nick off with the Millens (esp. Rhys) :lol:
 
To be fair, Auto Action is sold in New Zealand as well and the Australian motor racing scene seems to be a popular place for New Zealand racing drivers. Paul Radisich is there in 63rd, Greg Murphy in 39th and Possum Bourne in 22nd. All these drivers have been racing here for a long time and it's not like they picked drivers from the New Zealand V8 series, Trans Am series or Central Muscle Car series. Tomas Mezera is in there at 82nd and he is from the Czech Republic. They didn't include Chris Amon and he is a New Zealander but ususlly ran only the international events in Australia, and he was a judge for the top 100 list.
 
....and then also winning the bathurst 24hr race in 2003 and then on to finish 4th and 6th in the nations monaro at the age of 58 and 59 respectively.
True, a very big race to win, in any car. Yet the Monaro racer hardly complied with the rules. For starters the race was for production cars, yet I never saw a run of Monaro 427's come out of Fishermens Bend at any stage, in order to comply with rules of being a car "in production".
Every driver in the field cracked the sads knowing they had to race what was basically a V8 supercar in their "production-mobiles"..... and they were right to crack the sads.

Full credit to him for winning the race..... but credit where credit's due hey! ;)



sorry but i personally lost all respect for lowndes(dont get me wrong i think hes a great driver and i loved the red hot go programme) but at the end of last season when lowndes said he considered himself as the real champion last year.
Yes, that was quite a cringe-worthy moment :scared: . The heat of the moment makes you say some very dumb things :lol: . I lost more respect for HRT and HDT for their bullying tactics throughout the year. It was crude and disappointing to watch, yet it was obviously effective! Lucky I don't take it too seriously nowadays :indiff:
 
True, a very big race to win, in any car. Yet the Monaro racer hardly complied with the rules. For starters the race was for production cars, yet I never saw a run of Monaro 427's come out of Fishermens Bend at any stage, in order to comply with rules of being a car "in production".
Every driver in the field cracked the sads knowing they had to race what was basically a V8 supercar in their "production-mobiles"..... and they were right to crack the sads.

At the time it was a semi production car(well it was planned! :lol: )
holden_hsv_hrt427(2002).jpg


As released at the 2002 Sydney Motor Show, the HRT 427 show car was a closed-circuit racer featuring a 7-litre V8 racing engine based on the Le Mans-winning C5R Corvette powerplant. Over the past 15 years the HSV brand has been built on motorsport success and creating exhilarating road cars that contain serious levels of motorsport derived DNA. This race track concept, which simmered within both HSV and Holden, has boiled over with the two companies collaborating and creatinh the breathtaking HRT 427.

427 In Detail

Racing heritage features under the bonnet with a V8 engine that shares its 427 cubic inch (7.0 litre) capacity with the legendary big block Chev. Based on a Corvette C5R race engine, it's been hand built by HRT technicians, incorporating their own unique piston and CNC cylinder head design. This very special powerplant feeds through eight individual throttle bodies with carbon fibre trumpets.

'HRT 427 is the ideal showcase for potential new HSV production technology,' said project head, Brad Dunstan, TWR (Aust)'s Manager of Advanced Engineering. 'We've taken every performance and handling idea we have in the book and incorporated them into the HRT 427. One of the developments for this car that we hope to get into future HSV production is the double 'A' arm front suspension.' The race-style system consists of a set of beautifully crafted aluminium A arms, complete with fully adjustable dampers, which take the place of the Coupe's standard strut front suspension.

Everywhere you look there's seriously high spec performance mechanicals. A heavy-duty 900Nm clutch transmits the engine's prodigious output to a special T56 six-speed manual gearbox. Hand built for HSV by Tremec (makers of the standard T56), it features the same lower ratios as the Corvette Z06 and includes triple synchros to reduce shift effort.

Braking is via a race-bred AP Racing six piston system including competition style full floating and grooved rotors. Inside, there's a half roll-cage and Sparco Pro 2000 driving seats (as used in the British Touring Car Championship) to hold the driver securely in place behind an HRT style steering wheel and Motec instrument panel.

A strict weight reduction program, instigated to further enhance performance, sees it tip the scales at just 3472 lbs (1575kg) or 200 lbs (100kg) less than HSV's GTS Coupé. Exotic materials abound, including a carbon fibre bonnet, saving 31 lobs (14kgs), manufactured using a revolutionary Australian process called 'Quickstep' and magnesium for the HRT inspired 18-inch wheels and the unique differential housing. Audio and air conditioning systems are deleted, as are the rear seats which are replaced with carbon fibre panels to cover the lightweight dry cell battery.

Green Light to Production

Clearly, the world supercar club had welcomed a new member. The car's surprise first appearance at the Sydney motor show attracted much attention - from the media, from HRT fans, and, importantly, from some 80 customers who paid HSV Retailers deposits on the car.

At that time there were no specific pricing, specification levels, or production numbers, just a desire from HSV to showcase its ability, along with racing partner HRT, to develop a truly world class performance car.

This is the biggest and most complex project we will have undertaken. We are doing it as it is a wonderful advertisement for HSV being a world leader in high performance specialty cars, added HSV Managing Director John Crennan.

Pricing will be approximately $215,000 dollars. Production will commence later this year.

A Stillborn

June 16th 2003 - Holden Special Vehicles today announced that it would not go ahead with production of the HRT427 super car.

Fifty firm orders had been placed for the vehicle, with an unexpectedly high proportion to be for road use. HSV's desire to build the car to the highest level of safety, engineering integrity and excellence to meet the expected asking price of $215,000 was not achievable at the (restricted) 50 vehicle build level.

To achieve a road car level of specification would have required significantly higher investment levels and resultant higher recommended retail price. Further, HSV was not prepared to build more than 50 units as this would seriously degrade the exclusivity of the very exciting 427 model, nor was HSV prepared to lower the specifications from that of the original show car intent, which may have diluted the integrity of the concept.

HSV expressed great disappointment in not bringing the 427 model to market, as the prototype vehicles that were completed had achieved their engineering objectives and vehicle intent. HSV's General Manager, Chris Payne, confirmed - The unfortunate and disappointing decision was one purely of business case economics that could not be made viable given our price and customer studies.

'The decision is particularly disappointing as the prototypes already demonstrate the engineering prowess of HSV to develop and build high performance supercars that can compete with the best marques in the world' he added.

iirc i think jim richards won one of the season when it competed so they couldnt have used the "its really a V8 supercar" if he won it in a GT3? (info on the nations championship seems very hard to come by)

edit
The Holden Monaro Nations Cup car was given a Vehicle Recognition Document to compete in Nations Cup, it was completely homologated and therefore completely legal.
 
I’d rate Mark Webber and Ryan Briscoe above all of the current drivers in that list. But then I don’t particularly rate V8 drivers.
 
The Holden Monaro Nations Cup car was given a Vehicle Recognition Document to compete in Nations Cup, it was completely homologated and therefore completely legal.
I believe that was why the field protested. It didnt comply with the rulebook, but it sure did comply with the officials :lol: . In my experience you can't get away arguing with race officials :mad: .
I'm guessing it was all about "the Aussies beating the exotics" that was to hard to pass up in terms of the extra publicity it would generate for the Nations cup organisation.

And yes, Nations Cup info is extremely hard to find :(
 
I believe that was why the field protested. It didnt comply with the rulebook, but it sure did comply with the officials :lol: . In my experience you can't get away arguing with race officials :mad: .
I'm guessing it was all about "the Aussies beating the exotics" that was to hard to pass up in terms of the extra publicity it would generate for the Nations cup organisation.

And yes, Nations Cup info is extremely hard to find :(

but the thing is a 360 challenge isnt a production road car,nether was the lambo racing and the porsche cup cars ;) or the mosler so in the end it was fair :)
 
I believe that was why the field protested. It didnt comply with the rulebook, but it sure did comply with the officials . In my experience you can't get away arguing with race officials .
I'm guessing it was all about "the Aussies beating the exotics" that was to hard to pass up in terms of the extra publicity it would generate for the Nations cup organisation.
It was within the rules and PROCAR supervised it's construction. Also, the Nations Cup Monaro had nothing to do with the HRT427. All this has been covered before.
I’d rate Mark Webber and Ryan Briscoe above all of the current drivers in that list. But then I don’t particularly rate V8 drivers.
You don't rate V8 drivers? Does that include Peter Brock who won in sportscars, rally cars, open wheelers, tarmac rallies, rallycross and AUSCAR? Does that include Alan Jones who raced against and beat Gilles Villeneuve, Nelson Piquet and Alan Prost? The same Alan Jones who won the World Championship, a Bathurst 12 hour race and Australian Sportscar races after retiring from F1? Jim Richards? He has won in sportscars, NASCAR, tarmac rallies Carrera Cup, AMSCAR, Nations Cup and Australian GT races. Don't rate Mark Skaife? Three time Australian Drivers Champion, a championship raced in open wheelers. He won the ADC at Oran Park in 1992 and jumped straight into the Nissan Skyline and won the ATCC. What about Larry Perkins? He won Australian Formula Ford and F2 titles and the European F3 championship before racing in F1 with Amon, Brabham and Surtees and finished third at Le Mans in 1989. Craig Lowndes? 1993 Formula Ford champion and finished third in the Formula Ford Festival in England. Competed reasonably well in Formula 3000 in Europe despite a meagre budget and not speaking the same language as his car engineer for half the season. Marcos Ambrose? Winner of the 1999 European Formula Ford title and finished fifth on debut in British F3 against Tomas Scheckter and Takuma Sato and now looking like making it big in NASCAR. John Bowe? Runner up in the 1979 Australian Grand Prix and 1984 Australian Drivers Champion. James Courtney? Dual World Karting Champion and British Formula Ford Champion. David Brabham? Gold Star winner in 1987, British Formula 3 Champion and Macau Grand Prix winner in 1989. Raced in Formula 1 with Brabham and Simtek. Won the Spa 24 Hours for Nissan in 1991 and won the 24 Hours of Daytona for Jaguar in 1992. He won the 1996 JGTC GT500 championship in a McLaren F1 GTR, the Professional Sports Car Championship in the United States with Panoz in 1998 and the 1999 Petit Le Mans race also with Panoz. He is now also a class winner At Le Mans. Jason Bright? 1995 Australian Formula Ford Champion, 1997 Formula 4000 Champion and raced in Indy Lights in 2000. Greg Murphy? Runner up in the GT class at Le Mans in 1996. Max Dumesny? Won NASCAR races against Jim Richards and Brad Jones. Seven World Series Sprintcar titles and three Australian Sprintcar Championships. Garth Tander? Australian Formula Ford Champion. Rick Kelly? 2001 Australian Drivers Championship. Steven Richards? 1994 Formula Ford Champion. Tomas Mezera? 1985 Formula Ford Driver to Europe series. Finished second to Eddie Irvine in the 1987 British Formula Ford Championship. Russell Ingall? 1990 Australian Formula Ford Champion. Competed in the Macau Grand Prix in 1992 and after starting 23rd, overtook David Coulthard for fifth position midway through the race.
All these drivers have raced Australian V8 Touring Cars and you don't rate any of them? You are either very nieve or an elitist. I guess you are confused about Briscoe. 2003 European F3 Champion, current sportscar racer and a V8 driver in the 2006 endurance races.
 
I didn’t say I don’t rate drivers who have driven V8 Supercars. :rolleyes: I said that I don’t particularly rate many current V8 Supercar drivers. Yes, there is talent there, but in the 32 driver field there are only a handful that are even possibly deserving of being mentioned in the same list as legends like Brabham, Jones, and Brock.

Not to bash just the V8 drivers on that list, but why is Frank Gardner so high? Surely Mark Webber or David Brabham have done more?
 
Actually, what you said is that you don't particularly rate V8 drivers. That could mean anyone from sprintcars to the entire current F1 field. But anyway...

I don't know if you read Auto Action but they said Porsche wanted Frank Gardner for his development skills when the factory drivers were too frightened by the 917. He also worked for Ford, GM, Brabham, Lola and Lotus. He didn't have much opportunity in F1 only competing in nine World Championship races and various non-championship F1 races. He turned his back on F1 saying he didn't put F1 on a pedestal because it wasn't on a pedestal in that era. Despite this, F1 Racing Magazine still listed Frank in it's top 100 F1 drivers a few years ago. According to Gardner, a sign on fee for one season of F1 was between 6000 and 8000 pounds, 25 percent of the winnings and you had to find your own way around while Ford and Alan Mann offered 15,000 pounds, a couple of road cars and a Ford travel card to join the sports car team.
Gardner raced the GT40 at Le Mans in 1966 with John Whitmore, 1967 with Roger McCluskey and 1969 with Malcolm Guthrie. He did a lot of testing miles in the USA and did a lot of work on the shape of the bonnet to reduce lift at the 150 to 200 mph mark.
Gardner drove the original undeveloped Porsche 917 which he said had a reputation of putting drivers in hospital. He drove the Nurburgring 1000 in 1969 and Porsche awarded him the "Iron Cross" after the race for bravery.
He was the British Touring Car Champion in 1967 in a Falcon Rallye Sprint, in 1968 in a Ford Escort FVA and in 1973 in a Chevrolet Camaro. This Camaro was powered by the exact same aluminium 427ci Chevrolet ZL-1 engine Bob Jane used in his Camaro to win the 1971 Australian Touring Car Championship.
He won the European Formula 2 Championship in 1966, the European Formula 5000 Cahmpionship in 1971 and 1972 and according to Australian Muscle Car Magazine is still the F2 lap record holder at Monaco. He won the British Champion Driver award twice, an award for those who excell in touring cars, sports cars and open wheelers.
Gardner started the 1971 European F5000 series in a Lola T192 but could not compete with the McLaren and Surtees cars. He and Lola founder Eric Broadley then built the T300 in just a few weeks. During his time at Lola his development role became his main interest and he worked alongside the likes of John Barnard, Patrick Head, Ralph Bellamy and Tony Southgate. Before his return to Australia he was testing up to 200 Lolas each year from F1 cars to Formula Fords.
Upon his "retirement" to Australia he won the 1977 Australian Sports Sedan Championship in a Chev Corvair. He started this car in 49 races and won 41 of them. Gardner retired from driving in 1978 after back problems.
Gardner was team manager and test driver for JPS Team BMW through the end of the Group C era and through the Group A years. They were effectively the factory BMW team. They won the Australian Touring Car Championship with Jim Richards as driver in 1985 and 1987. They contineud with moderate success until the end of the Group A era and the early years of the V8 formula. In 1994 the team prepared four cars for the Bathurst 1000. Three BMWs and one Commodore. All four cars finished with the Commodore being the best finisher in fourth place.
 
Not to bash just the V8 drivers on that list, but why is Frank Gardner so high?
If I'm not mistaken, he was also quite an accomplished endurance driver in selected FIA sports car events. Few Australian drivers did the long-distance thing in Europe on a regular basis, and were as successful.
 
Schrodes, thanks for the info on Gardner. I didn’t know a lot of that, especially about his development work.

+rep 👍
 
Actually, what you said is that you don't particularly rate V8 drivers. That could mean anyone from sprintcars to the entire current F1 field. But anyway...

I don't know if you read Auto Action but they said Porsche wanted Frank Gardner for his development skills when the factory drivers were too frightened by the 917. He also worked for Ford, GM, Brabham, Lola and Lotus. He didn't have much opportunity in F1 only competing in nine World Championship races and various non-championship F1 races. He turned his back on F1 saying he didn't put F1 on a pedestal because it wasn't on a pedestal in that era. Despite this, F1 Racing Magazine still listed Frank in it's top 100 F1 drivers a few years ago. According to Gardner, a sign on fee for one season of F1 was between 6000 and 8000 pounds, 25 percent of the winnings and you had to find your own way around while Ford and Alan Mann offered 15,000 pounds, a couple of road cars and a Ford travel card to join the sports car team.
Gardner raced the GT40 at Le Mans in 1966 with John Whitmore, 1967 with Roger McCluskey and 1969 with Malcolm Guthrie. He did a lot of testing miles in the USA and did a lot of work on the shape of the bonnet to reduce lift at the 150 to 200 mph mark.
Gardner drove the original undeveloped Porsche 917 which he said had a reputation of putting drivers in hospital. He drove the Nurburgring 1000 in 1969 and Porsche awarded him the "Iron Cross" after the race for bravery.
He was the British Touring Car Champion in 1967 in a Falcon Rallye Sprint, in 1968 in a Ford Escort FVA and in 1973 in a Chevrolet Camaro. This Camaro was powered by the exact same aluminium 427ci Chevrolet ZL-1 engine Bob Jane used in his Camaro to win the 1971 Australian Touring Car Championship.
He won the European Formula 2 Championship in 1966, the European Formula 5000 Cahmpionship in 1971 and 1972 and according to Australian Muscle Car Magazine is still the F2 lap record holder at Monaco. He won the British Champion Driver award twice, an award for those who excell in touring cars, sports cars and open wheelers.
Gardner started the 1971 European F5000 series in a Lola T192 but could not compete with the McLaren and Surtees cars. He and Lola founder Eric Broadley then built the T300 in just a few weeks. During his time at Lola his development role became his main interest and he worked alongside the likes of John Barnard, Patrick Head, Ralph Bellamy and Tony Southgate. Before his return to Australia he was testing up to 200 Lolas each year from F1 cars to Formula Fords.
Upon his "retirement" to Australia he won the 1977 Australian Sports Sedan Championship in a Chev Corvair. He started this car in 49 races and won 41 of them. Gardner retired from driving in 1978 after back problems.
Gardner was team manager and test driver for JPS Team BMW through the end of the Group C era and through the Group A years. They were effectively the factory BMW team. They won the Australian Touring Car Championship with Jim Richards as driver in 1985 and 1987. They contineud with moderate success until the end of the Group A era and the early years of the V8 formula. In 1994 the team prepared four cars for the Bathurst 1000. Three BMWs and one Commodore. All four cars finished with the Commodore being the best finisher in fourth place.

Eek! I knew that. I wonder how...

I think I agree with the top three places on the list. I am glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read Blake's post, as I would surely have spurted it over the keyboard. I really do not see that Webber is anything special at all. I suspect that Brabham edges Brock because of a greater track record of versatility, in both formula and venue. Sure, Brock's Aussie touring car record is without peer, but I think that to be "the greatest" he really required more in the way of international success, and also success outwith the touring car arena. A worthy second to the mighty Sir Jack, however.
 
My thing with Webber is that he matched and beat Nick Heidfeld at Williams in 2005. He beat a man who at various times in his F1 career has beaten Räikkönen, Massa, and Kubica in the same car (and who is one of the most underrated drivers in F1, IMO).
 
Paul Radisich
Greg Murphy
Possum Bourne
Tomas Mezera
Chris Amon
Why did Auto Action put these guys on the list anyway, when they aren't Australians?

If the list is top 100 Australian racing drivers, then the list is broken.
If the list is top 100 Australasian racing drivers, then the list is not. Except for Tomas Mezera, who isn't Aussie or Kiwi.

Just me nitpicking :guilty:
 
Why did Auto Action put these guys on the list anyway, when they aren't Australians?

If the list is top 100 Australian racing drivers, then the list is broken.
If the list is top 100 Australasian racing drivers, then the list is not. Except for Tomas Mezera, who isn't Aussie or Kiwi.

Just me nitpicking :guilty:

im surprised noones meationed allan moffat yet :lol: hes canadian
 
Good one, I over-looked Moffat too.
How about Denny Hulme and Bruce McLaren. Two more drivers from New Zealand not on the list. Supports my theory that they included only the NZ drivers who have raced in Australia for extended periods, fair enough in my view.
My thing with Webber is that he matched and beat Nick Heidfeld at Williams in 2005. He beat a man who at various times in his F1 career has beaten Räikkönen, Massa, and Kubica in the same car (and who is one of the most underrated drivers in F1, IMO).
I agree with Giles about Webber. As far as I'm concerned, he hasn't done anything Larry Perkins, David Brabham, Paul Hawkins, Tim Schenken, Vern Schuppan, Frank Matich or Frank Gardner hadn't done.
 
My thing with Webber is that he matched and beat Nick Heidfeld at Williams in 2005. He beat a man who at various times in his F1 career has beaten Räikkönen, Massa, and Kubica in the same car (and who is one of the most underrated drivers in F1, IMO).

He only beat Heidfeld after the latter was injured and subsequently went to BMW. To the point in the season where Heidfeld suffered his injury, it was Nick who was ahead. At the time, it was apparent that whilst Webber was very good at qualifying the car, he was not so good at racing it, and therefore in spite of being behind at the start, Heidfeld was usually ahead at the end. As Peugeot's Le Mans squad will tell you, quali is not so important.
 
During the races that they both finished it was actually a 3-3 draw as to who finished ahead. And Mark should have finished ahead of Nick at Monaco if the team didn’t put Nick ahead at the final stops, so you could even say it should have been 4-2 Mark’s way. ;)

But I’ll stop, because I’m not trying to put Mark on a pedestal like it probably sounds. I do think he is better than one current driver on the top 10 list who I feel is way too high, and that skewed my original comment.
 
i agree with you, i reckon webber was jipped in the year he was with heidfeld at williams by some dodgy team decisions, i do beleive he outperfomred heidfeld that year. but also, he couldnt get the job done around alonso at monaco the way heidfeld could (which he backed up this year when he went around the outside of alonso). so maybe the thing about his racing skills is true. he drives possesed when he has clear air, but he doesnt battle well.
but, with all the bad luck he has had (i dont beleive he is a car breaker, coultard's car broke down again today at spa to back that up) im suprised he hasnt dropped the ball completely. many a lesser man would have. id have put him in the top ten, but then, i really want to see him do well.

dont he remind u of hugh jackman????
 

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