B13 or S13...

[exigeracer]

Holla folks. This summer I'll be dropping into the car ownership scene. I'm currently cut down to two cars, the B13 Sentra or the S13 240SX.

Either way, a longtime friend of mine is at my disposal, he has a SR20DET 240SX pulling decent numbers, works at a performance shop, has done a couple swaps and generally knows the KA and SR's pretty thortoughly. Both S and B cars both can handle SR20's, so that's a big plus.

I'd like to get into a Sentra for the fun, balanced ride, something I can live with and also autocross from time to time. I've heard that driving at 9/10ths, the B13 will be a better handler than the S13 (the Sentra also has better brakes stock?). Above that, the RWD shines through the Sentra's FWD.

Both cars are cheap where I live (about a thousand dollars) and I can hop them up to SR's if I feel slow eventually. Like I said, I have help and knowledge down the street from me if problems come up.

Right now, I'm leaning 75% towards the Sentra. I know everyone here will most likely vote for the RWD, but a dialed FWD with good tires can be a ton of safe fun. Any comments?

 

[niky]

Just one. Watch those gearboxes. If you're going for a DET swap, the B13 might eat up gearboxes if you use it on the track. Had a friend who was actually eating axles, too, until he got a limited slip... but then with good axles available on the mainland, that won't be your primary problem.

The B13 is definitely very light and chuckable, and a fun car to drive. It was the last Sentra with IRS, which is a plus, but it's got poor suspension travel, and from experience, on stiff springs, it's a little skittery because of that. Otherwise, it's a sweet daily car, and if you go for the non-turbo SR route, probably dependable enough as a daily driver.

The S13 would get you a few more thumbs up, though, both online and in the real world. Not sold on its daily useability (space), and you'll be lugging more car per horsepower than with the Sentra, for sure.

There are neater swaps for the S13 if they're legal in your area... RB, perhaps? Or Chevy?

 

[exigeracer]

Just one. Watch those gearboxes. If you're going for a DET swap, the B13 might eat up gearboxes if you use it on the track. Had a friend who was actually eating axles, too, until he got a limited slip... but then with good axles available on the mainland, that won't be your primary problem.

The B13 is definitely very light and chuckable, and a fun car to drive. It was the last Sentra with IRS, which is a plus, but it's got poor suspension travel, and from experience, on stiff springs, it's a little skittery because of that. Otherwise, it's a sweet daily car, and if you go for the non-turbo SR route, probably dependable enough as a daily driver.

The S13 would get you a few more thumbs up, though, both online and in the real world. Not sold on its daily useability (space), and you'll be lugging more car per horsepower than with the Sentra, for sure.

There are neater swaps for the S13 if they're legal in your area... RB, perhaps? Or Chevy?

As for track time... There aren't really that many tracks around here. My racing curriculum would consist of maybe 3 autocrosses per year and a bunch of healthy bootable driving.

I don't think that I'd get an SE-R, so the NA SR20 would not really be something I'd be looking at (too expensive considering I'd be doing motsly my own suspension work)... If I were to get a B13, I'd have the stock motor until I needed more power, in which case the SR20DET would be used.

I'm not the kind of guy that's out to get thumbsup whatsoever, and I'm not the kind of Chevy-swap kind of guy either. As for legality in my area, if I don't throw around my luggage like a tourist I won't have any problems with the law. This means that I can do whatever I want under the hood, regardless of laws and rules... Not to mention the fact that I'd be able to hookup a running SR20 swap in a weekend, whereas an RB swap of any kind requires a lot more work than a shoe-horn job. My frind has gotte RB-swap quotes for almost ten-grand; not my kind of money.

I think I'd have to drive both cars to decide on both fit (I'm 6'1) and driving pleasure, but the only 240 I'd have to drive is pushing 250hp...

 

[RobcioPL]

Get a B13, S13 swaps are so common now, because of the "drifting craze"

 

[niky]

Sucks that an RB-install is so much over there... here, RBs are just sitting around in surplus shops waiting for buyers. But then, given the power-per-doller' ratio, the SR20DET is just right.

If we're talking chuckles on a daily drive, I think the B13 would be about right, but I'm not so sure about an SR20DET B13 if you plan to autocross it... unless you can get one with an LSD-equipped tranny (which also helps with wear and tear on the axles, I've heard).

Still, I'd pick the B13 anyway. Might not be as competitive as the S13 on the autocross, but you'd be pretty entertaining for spectators.

But that's just me. I don't see you being disappointed in either car, though odds are the 240 will be a better stock driver. Good luck!

 

[exigeracer]

Get a B13, S13 swaps are so common now, because of the "drifting craze"

That's the worst argument I've seen in a while.

Why the hell would I buy a car to try to be unique... I'm so sick of this, I see it every day. Doing something just to go against the trend is just as lame as doing something just to go with the trend.

If you can't win, being entertaining for the spectators is what it's all about:

 

[Wolfe]

Well, between the S13 and the B13, you and niky have covered pretty much everything.

The B13 is lighter, will likely be more willing to rotate and zip around (perfect for autocross, of course). Also, the B13 has more space, and it's simply more practical in general. Not to mention the B13 is a much neater-looking car than the S13, IMO. If I were forced to drive a FWD, the B13 would be one of my top choices. 👍

On the other hand, the S13 would be a better choice if you decided to go with all-out performance. The B13's upright shape, sedan roots, and FWD layout simply can't match the S13 here. The S13 you would be getting already produces 250hp, as well. In general, the S13 is a mediocre handler, but this can be fixed with some modifications, and the sheer popularity of the car will make modifications easy to find.

You asked me in the "Ricey or Racey?" thread about E30 BMW's. Weight-wise, the 4-cylinder models are about as heavy as the Sentra, but the 6-cylinder models are about as heavy as the S13. I'm willing to gamble that the E30's, no matter which engine, handle better and are more eager to rotate than the S13, so you'd be looking at a car that handles like the B13 and is just as practical, but has RWD like the S13. Power-wise, BMW may not be known for turbochargers, but I've heard and seen that their engines take to a turbo quite well. In the early '80's, BMW plucked M10's (the 4-cylinder engine found in early E30 318i's) from pre-owned roadcars and turbocharged them beyond 1200hp for F1 racing, so matching or exceeding that 240SX's 250hp won't kill the M10, especially if you take standard precautions. The only major issue here is price -- as you said, you couldn't find any affordable E30's in your area, and parts will certainly be cheaper with the Nissans.

 

[Jay]

If the 240sx you would be getting is 250hp, then I would go for that, mainly on the basis that I have driven a few 180sx's (SR20DET's) and they are great cars, as for mediocre handling, well they seemed to handle quite well, but I didn't get to push them real hard as I would have liked too. I would personally love a B13 if it was RWD.

 

[niky]

How about AWD? Too bad the B13 doesn't have the brackets, as the Pulsar Sunny has the stampings and underchassis space to take AWD for both the GA-series and SR-series engines.

But then, in a world with RWD V8 CRXs and Accords, nothing's impossible... just improbably expensive, difficult and/or of dubious reliability.

 

[Jay]

Yeah a AWD B13 would be great and unique, its do-able but alot easier just to buy a GTi-R

 

[exigeracer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a normal SR20DET produces 205hp.

I'm really getting into the B13. I've checked out the interiors on a bunch of them, and I gotta admit they're pretty decent. I feel cramped in an S13, and the back seats look a lot more usable as well in the B.

e30 BMWs are very expensive around here. When I saw you had gotten one, I got more interested, but I really couldn't find anything decent for a reasonable price. It's certainly something I'd love to own in the future.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really was expecting it to be one-sided towards the S13.

 

[jamaican]

i like the B13... the S13 is too common, plus the B13 would be a real sleeper

 

[Jay]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a normal SR20DET produces 205hp.

Yes early SR20DET's were 205hp (but gain alot of hp for mild tuning).

 

[RobcioPL]

That's the worst argument I've seen in a while.

Why the hell would I buy a car to try to be unique... I'm so sick of this, I see it every day. Doing something just to go against the trend is just as lame as doing something just to go with the trend.

If you can't win, being entertaining for the spectators is what it's all about:

Your just being stupid. I dont like going against the trend, but when you got bunch of 16 year old ricers getting S13-S14 and trying to drift, just pisses me off.

BTW, www.sr20forum.com
Thats your best B13 forum resource, check out some rides over at member rides.

BTW, RWD is plainly better.

 

[niky]

I'd have said nissanforums also, but they've split into that and allnissans... anyway, most of the hardcore B13'ers are on sr20 and SE-R.net.

Be sure to check out the V6-swap, though... it's a gas... but probably no good on the autocross.

Good luck finding a nice B13... I've got lots of fond twisty, mountainous, life-endangering memories of that car. Kudos!

 

[Wolfe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a normal SR20DET produces 205hp.

I'm really getting into the B13. I've checked out the interiors on a bunch of them, and I gotta admit they're pretty decent. I feel cramped in an S13, and the back seats look a lot more usable as well in the B.

e30 BMWs are very expensive around here. When I saw you had gotten one, I got more interested, but I really couldn't find anything decent for a reasonable price. It's certainly something I'd love to own in the future.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really was expecting it to be one-sided towards the S13.

Yup, it does.

Yeah, I've only sat in an S13 once, but I was stunned at how..."Japanese" it was, size-wise.

Where have you looked, and where do you live? If you're still thinking about getting one, maybe I could help you find better resources.

D00d, g3t t3h 240, 1tz b3tt3r 4 dr1ft1ng, y0!!!!1!!1!!1!11eleventy-one

 

[exigeracer]

I live in Montreal, Quebec.

I've mostly lookerd online and in the papers, but my best bet would still be looking around local used lots.

When it comes down to it, the Nissan will end up being a lot more reasonable to own than an e30 (parts etc).

I was checking out some B13 forums a while ago and there was a little comparo between the S13 and B13, but I was still left with quesitons.

 

[Jay]

I was checking out some B13 forums a while ago and there was a little comparo between the S13 and B13, but I was still left with quesitons.

Have you got a link handy? Interesting what they thought.

 

[exigeracer]

Here you go.

Sort of goes with the level of driving you're at. Below or at 8/10ths the B is funner/faster, but when going all out, 10/10ths, the S13 is quicker.

 

[Jay]

Thanks, we only got the NX in Australia not the Sentra, a distant friend of mine did a GTi-R SR20DET swap into one just to be different. (not the norm overhere)

 

[niky]

NX=not bad... some people are complaining of rear suspension failures due to rust, though... (of course, that's up in the snowy acres of the US) how's his holding up?

 

[Jay]

how's his holding up?

Broken or damaged all the time, he really doesn't take care of it and thrashes it hard.

 

[luftrofl]

Your just being stupid. I dont like going against the trend, but when you got bunch of 16 year old ricers getting S13-S14 and trying to drift, just pisses me off.

I'm not clear how the fact that a relatively small amount(though I can relate, as a suprisingly abundant where I live) of people who have a certain type of car is reason for not choosing that car.
Also, are you really one to talk about 16 year-olds when your profile says you're 15? Just kidding, I don't care really.

Offtopic: I don't like to be picky, but the phrase "Your just being stupid" is sort of a contradiction. I'll let you figure out how on your own.

 

[RobcioPL]

I'm not clear how the fact that a relatively small amount(though I can relate, as a suprisingly abundant where I live) of people who have a certain type of car is reason for not choosing that car.
Also, are you really one to talk about 16 year-olds when your profile says you're 15? Just kidding, I don't care really.

Offtopic: I don't like to be picky, but the phrase "Your just being stupid" is sort of a contradiction. I'll let you figure out how on your own.

I dont care what you think, i know my **** when it comes to nissans, and when it comes to sentras, i know the most. I have been reading forums since i was 9-10. My older brother is a certified technician. I probably know alot more about them then you do, so stfu.

BTW, i own a B15 with an SR20 in it

 

[Syntax error]

I dont care what you think, i know my **** when it comes to nissans, and when it comes to sentras, i know the most. I have been reading forums since i was 9-10. My older brother is a certified technician. I probably know alot more about them then you do, so stfu.

BTW, i own a B15 with an SR20 in it

Wow dude, your e-penis must be huge!!!





Anyway, back on topic, I'd go the S13. I've had a little experience in them, they are easy to drive, fun handling, If you decide to upgrade anything on it, or just need parts... the market is flooded with all the goodies you'll ever need for the S13. Easy to work on too… plenty of room in the engine bay etc…. bu if you’re a big guy you’ll find it a tad uncomfortable to drive. I’m by no means large but at 6 foot and weighing about 85kg’s, I felt as if I’m sitting in a toy car, it was just a tad undersized for my liking. Even the relatively low powered NA models are fun... even if they are slow.

Unfortunately I can't comment on the Sentra, as being in Australia as well... we don't have them here. But from what I’ve seen, they look pretty tidy for a daily driver.

 

[RobcioPL]

Wow dude, your e-penis must be huge!!!

Ok..........that was uncalled for, and random...........

Anyway, back on topic, I'd go the S13. I've had a little experience in them, they are easy to drive, fun handling, If you decide to upgrade anything on it, or just need parts... the market is flooded with all the goodies you'll ever need for the S13. Easy to work on too… plenty of room in the engine bay etc…. bu if you’re a big guy you’ll find it a tad uncomfortable to drive. I’m by no means large but at 6 foot and weighing about 85kg’s, I felt as if I’m sitting in a toy car, it was just a tad undersized for my liking. Even the relatively low powered NA models are fun... even if they are slow.

Unfortunately I can't comment on the Sentra, as being in Australia as well... we don't have them here. But from what I’ve seen, they look pretty tidy for a daily driver.

Being around 6'3, i dont have a problem sitting in a B13. Lets not talk about the rear seat, because both cars have little space there.

The B13 is faster stock, and has a better mod friendly engine.

 

[Syntax error]

Ok..........that was uncalled for, and random...........

Not really considering how you talk your self up....

when it comes to sentras, i know the most.

and not to mention the most convincing argument i've ever heard...

I probably know alot more about them then you do, so stfu.

oh and your qualifications are mind blowingly amazing....

I have been reading forums since i was 9-10.

in any event, I’m done ridiculing and I’m going back to backing the S13 as a great choice of car... actually I'll go further than that and I’ll say that any Nissan (with the possible exception of the EXA) is a fantastic car and be it daily driver or what ever you do with it... it won't let you down.. well to much anyway...

 

[RobcioPL]

Not really considering how you talk your self up....



and not to mention the most convincing argument i've ever heard...



oh and your qualifications are mind blowingly amazing....




in any event, I’m done ridiculing and I’m going back to backing the S13 as a great choice of car... actually I'll go further than that and I’ll say that any Nissan (with the possible exception of the EXA) is a fantastic car and be it daily driver or what ever you do with it... it won't let you down.. well to much anyway...

You just come randomly into our arguement, i just dont get it. You cant prove what you know either, its the internet, no ****. Both the B13 and S13 are great cars, but the best bang for the buck would be a B13, no doubt.

BTW, when i said "when it comes to sentras, i know the most" i meant that as in from all the cars i know, not that i know the most from all people.

 

[luftrofl]

RobciPL- Calm down please. You've somehow managed interpret my post as a personal attack on your knowledge of cars. I did not mean to be offensive at all, but please do point out to me where I offended you.

Edit: A comment on your statement:
"BTW, when i said "when it comes to sentras, i know the most" i meant that as in from all the cars i know, not that i know the most from all people."
-You should probably state the original phrase differently, as I would(and probably most people aswell) interpret that as "I know the most about Sentras" as opposed to what your statement actually meant: "Of all cars I know, I know the Sentra the best."

 

[exigeracer]

Robcio, please stop swearing in this thread, and take on a little more maturity before posting your little comments. No matter how old you were when you read your forums, nothing adds up to actually driving and owning and working on a car. You simply don't understand anything you read unless you can practically apply it to something physical. Harness diagrams for a motor don't mean anything unless you've got a voltmeter and an open engine bay to look into, something you did not have when you were 9. You act your age, and your credibility on this topic went out the window with your first post. Pick it up or refrain from posting useless junk.

I got a job, so the Nissan ownership will start sometime later this summer. I'm still leaning towards the B13, but some rides in both cars might change that.

Here's that S13 my friend drives. New BOV and front mount all installed and working beautfiully. He got some free wheels/tires, so tried 'em out at the strip. He's working on 13s, with around 210hp at the wheels. The paint, along with absolutely everything else, was done by himself in his garage (I don't know if he read the forums when he was 9 though). The paint is actually barbecue paint and is far cheaper than the real stuff, and gets that nice matte finish. I'm his official photog now too . I'm sure I'd be able to drive it if I just asked.