Beginner Drift Cars

[sicbeing]

I posted this in the motorsports forum, but got no reply and barely any views, so I figure i'd get more attention here.

What are some good cars to learn how to drift with? I have a little part inside me that wants to learn. somewhere later in life, and my "car list" for beginner cars isnt that much, just lookin for some suggestions.

The cars I have in mind.

300zx
RX-7 (I know nothing about rotory engines)
240sx
Miata

Anything els eyou guys can think of? I want it to be cheap (around 5-10k, or less) and mod'able (LSD, or whatever else is needed).

Thanks in advance

 

[McLaren]

I'd say the 240SX if anything.

 

[194GVan]

the 240 is probably the most popular now a days, may be harder to find someone with a reasonable asking price for one in good shape. Seems like people are catching on to the fact that every drifter wants one.

the 300zx is a real fun car, my friend has one, handles great, wide track and real low slung, I imagine if you gut out everything from behind the front seats and do some mild tuning it could also make a great drifter. Personally I think the 300 would be a more fun car all around.

 

[Firebird]

I posted this in the motorsports forum, but got no reply and barely any views.

 

[Joey D]

Fox Body Mustang, they are cheap as hell and they can be had for under a grand.

 

[JCE]

Fox Body Mustang, they are cheap as hell and they can be had for under a grand.

+1 It's cheaper and easier to work on the Mustang--and it can cost less to turn into a drag car if you wanted to. I build 2 of them and they were a blast. And not to mention the 240SX is at a premium...so expensive now.

 

[Joey D]

Hell I had a crappy old 5.0 mustang, it was awesome. I think there might be pictures of it on here some where.

 

[YSSMAN]

1) 240SX has become very expensive because of the increased demand for the car. Costs a lot to modify to get to drift-spec, and parts do come off easily. If you want, it would be the easiest to find info on...

2) The 300ZX is both a gem and piece of crap. Their turbos (if you had a turbo model, that is) blow up very easily, and the car itself isnt necessiarily the most well-built model to ever roll off an assembly line. The chassis can be full of wiggles, and the driveterrain is somewhat weak when compared to others out there.

3) The RX7 is a lot like the 300ZX. The roatary can be a good engine to use if you have a well kept one and you know what you are doing when you modify it... But pre-Renesis rotarys are known for being full of problems (along with the rest of the RX7), and do come apart when worked too hard. But, the cars are well balanced and their structures are stiff. If you have the money to play, go for it... But beware of the problems.

4) A Mazda Miata is a cheap and effective way of getting started. The early models are extremely light and agile, and with some homegrown modifications, they can become monsters pretty easily. Turbos and superchargers are the usual add-ons, and there are V8 swaps (usually of the Ford 5.0 and 4.6 variety) out there as well. You can find early Miatas for pretty cheap, but be prepared to do a lot of work under the hood...

5) The Fox Body Mustangs (1979-2004) are easy to find, easy to modify, and easy to fix. If you decide to quit drifting, they make great SCCA track cars, drag cars, and good street cars. More than anything, they are cheap. I would go with a late '80s model to begin with, preferably the 5.0GT with the 5-speed manual. Newer models are more expensive, but with the 4.6L and 5-speed manual, there are buttloads of add-ons to be had.

6) My pick would be to go with a 3rd or 4th gen Camaro/Firebird. The platforms are capable, 3rd gens accept a wide variety of V8s, and 4th gens love to take add-ons. The cars handle as well (if not better) as the Mustangs, and generally make more power post-1993. The 3rd gens have special steering design available for drifting, and if it is an early model, it will gladly accept bigger carbed V8s without issue. 4th gens have better suspensions, engines, and transmissions and generally would be an easier platform to bein with. The 1998-2002s equipped with the LS1 V8 are FAST, and will gladly spin the tires right off the rear wheels.

 

[toyomatt84]

1986 Toyota Corolla AE86. Comes in a few models (Trueno and Levin in Japan). Has quite the list of aftermarket support and certain models come with an LSD. It also has engine swap availabilities from more recent models. I think the going rate for an un-abused, rust-free, un-modifiied version is about 3.5-6.5 thousand US dollars.

 

[Ghost C]

He said a good car to learn to drift in. Twenty year old cars that put out whopping double digit wheel horsepower numbers brand new are not good cars. $3.5-$6.5k for a twenty year old economy car is just stupid, I don't care how cool cartoons make it out to be. $6.5k for an 80's car is BMW M3/M6 money, not Toyota Corolla 0mfgl33ty0initiald money.

Like everyone else, I'm going to recommend the Fox body, or if you're feeling different, go for the Thunderbird. 80something-97, or even the older one. Problem is finding those with a manual transmission, although there may be some guy on right here on GTP who has one and drifts it

 

[Z32]

im with YSSMAN and his opinions 👍

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

If you must drift, get a 240. It's got decent dynamics, huge aftermarket support, and it's not much of a loss when you crash it. (And you almost surely WILL crash a first drift car)

AE86, while a great car, is simply too expensive for what it is. Couple years ago, when they were 500 bucks for a decent GTS, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. They're a dream to drive, but just not worth 3+ thousand dollars.

Anyone who needs to ask shouldn't buy an RX7.

Miata's not a great beginner car. Light weight and short wheelbase make for a car that's not particularly stable in a drift, with a tendency to spin. They can also get wierd with traction loss... I learned that the hard way with my first one. Still, great fun if you decide to do some road race, drove a very nice 1st gen a couple weeks ago and loved it. (Although not as much as the hachiroku!)

The domestics... they seem to have the fundamentals, but don't really work out.

The Fox is becoming overpriced, and is underpowered. They're also old cars.

F-body is simply too big and heavy.

Drift-oriented parts for both cars are scarce and expensive (as a good deal of the really quality stuff is intended for pro racing, i.e. American Iron series.) They also both suffer from a lack of maximum steering lock.

The Z is also oversize and overweight. Only Z that's got real performance value in a street config is the 240, and they're too expensive and too rare to risk drifting.

Now, I've got my own wild-card suggestion.

Mitsubishi Starion. (AKA Chrysler Conquest) Powered by a 2.5l Turbo I4, they make decent power and buttloads of torque. Relatively heavy, but much of the weight can be stripped out (unlike some cars, like the Z and MKIII Supra, where it's essentially engineered into the chassis!), and come stock with a clutch-type 2way LSD! Suspension components are uncommon, but getting better, and the stock stuff isn't horrible. Friend of mine has four of them, great fun to slide around in. Best of all, they're quite cheap. "Flatbody/Flatside" models are about 2900lb (150-200 more than 240SX, relatively easy to drop), widebody models are 3200lb but look damned cool, and have the bonus of super-wide, low offset, wheels. (Especially in SHP models, can be distinguished by the cast maker's mark on the wheel face, which is in a "box" on SHP models) All in all, not a horrible car to start drifting in.

Just for the record, by the way, I've got personal experience with most of these cars, having driven all the listed imports, and having owned a 240SX and a Miata.

 

[JCE]

If you must drift, get a 240. It's got decent dynamics, huge aftermarket support, and it's not much of a loss when you crash it. (And you almost surely WILL crash a first drift car)

The Fox is becoming overpriced, and is underpowered. They're also old cars.

F-body is simply too big and heavy.

I disagree with the first 3 statements here, having owned all of the cars myself and having experience with real world drifting and not circuit drifting I can easily say the best car(s) to learn to drift in without costing much money either are easily the Fox body and F body. The inexperienced and unskilled need to learn HOW to drive and car control before going into the money spending benge. It's better to learn with a cheap old V8 RWD that's easy to fix and has an abundance of aftermarket performance parts--and yes I know the 240SX has a buttload of performance parts but cost vs cost it's more expensive. And frankly as much as I love 240SX's the problem is they are SO bloody expensive here in the states that it does not make sense to buy one to learn to drift in...I will say you are 100% correct on the crashing aspect...beginners will crash thier first 1 or 2 learner cars. For $1500 you can easily obtain a Fox body or F body that either runs good enough or won't cost an arm or leg fixing. It will cost $2500+ for a decent running S13 era 240SX and you still might have to do some work on the top end of the motor because they are driven HARD and almost always by people who don't take care of them or don't care. But, keep in mind I do love the 240SX for learning I just think it's more cost effective for the beginner to get a Fox body or F body. I don't think they are too big or too heavy either, the goal is to learn drifting and car control--you can easily slide those cars around. Now, between the Fox body and F body I'd go with the Fox body 1000% over the F body--it just seems less twitchy under certain conditions like smoother pavement/concrete and wet surfaces. But we'll let the people decide after all of us post our opinions.

 

[sicbeing]

Thanks for the opinions guys, love to open up my mind a bit when available. This will most likely become a porject when I'm done with college. The SCCA idea is still there, as well as the drift idea. I don't like to drag race though, not my cup of tea.

But for the remainder of my college time, I'll stick with the DFP. 👍

 

[toyomatt84]

He said a good car to learn to drift in. Twenty year old cars that put out whopping double digit wheel horsepower numbers brand new are not good cars. $3.5-$6.5k for a twenty year old economy car is just stupid, I don't care how cool cartoons make it out to be. $6.5k for an 80's car is BMW M3/M6 money, not Toyota Corolla 0mfgl33ty0initiald money.

Like everyone else, I'm going to recommend the Fox body, or if you're feeling different, go for the Thunderbird. 80something-97, or even the older one. Problem is finding those with a manual transmission, although there may be some guy on right here on GTP who has one and drifts it

Considering the history of drifting was founded on the Trueno, I think it's safe to say that it's AT LEAST good. You may not know it, or by the looks of things you just don't know it, but the car of choice for the Drift King himself, Tsuchiya, is a Trueno. Must be that double digit hp output... or the fact that it's just an all around good car to drift.

 

[Dorifto]

I own a 240sx.

 

[Joey D]

The Fox Bodies are by no means expensive or hard to maintain. I think I got mine for like 500 bucks.

 

[Ghost C]

Considering the history of drifting was founded on the Trueno

No it wasn't.

I think it's safe to say that it's AT LEAST good.

No it isn't.

You may not know it, or by the looks of things you just don't know it, but the car of choice for the Drift King himself, Tsuchiya, is a Trueno.

Big deal. Some guy with an overhyped title with an overhyped car in a sport that's an overglorified trend. It's not that I don't know, it's that I don't care.

Must be that double digit hp output... or the fact that it's just an all around good car to drift.

Consider this, the car itself costs more than triple what it should. Then you have what? Something that's worthless. You have to then add parts, which cost triple what they should thanks to the drift fad, and about $15,000 later you have something that you could've achieved easier, faster, and cheaper with a better car to start with.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Hmm, have things turned around that much? When I bought my 240, S13s were all over the place, with mileage in the low 100k, for around 1000. When I looked at Foxes they were much more expensive, at least with similar mileage/condition.

I've seen Foxes and Fbodies used as drift cars, they just don't generally have much success in the role.

By the way, if I remember correctly, Tsuchiya had a Levin, not a Trueno. As I say, I love Hachis, I'm dreaming for quite a while of a black kouki APEX Levin on gold/polished lip meshies, with a 20v motor...

The other thing I do have to say is that I'm somewhat biased by my canyon experience, which is somewhat different from track drifting. (Although the closest I ever came to canyon drifting (on purpose, anyway) was sliding around cones we set up at the parking lot at the base of a local spot.)

 

[JCE]

Hmm, have things turned around that much? When I bought my 240, S13s were all over the place, with mileage in the low 100k, for around 1000. When I looked at Foxes they were much more expensive, at least with similar mileage/condition.

I've seen Foxes and Fbodies used as drift cars, they just don't generally have much success in the role.

With the populatization of drifting as well as tuning in general the 240SX exploded in price. When I bought mine I spent $1200 for it it had 140k miles when I bought it and put 35k miles more on the clock of hard driving and it never had a problem. 👍

While I will conceed that Fox and F bodies aren't the BEST cars to drive they are some of the best to LEARN car control and basic drifting techniques. Once you learn good car control you should have saved up the money to get a better car to drift with--unless you want to do SCCA...if that's the case the Fox body is perfect for it.

 

[Poverty]

The trueno is infact a very good drift car. My dads friend had one back in the late 80's early 90's and to this day theyhave said that it was a very fast little car and alot of fun to drive.

In the UK you can get S14's for peanuts but alot of people start out with E36 BMW's. Dont know how much they cost in the states but if theyre cheap check out a 328i.

 

[sicbeing]

I was also thinking an older MR2, but I had a friend tell me they tend to understeer and when you get sideways, they straighten out instead of staying sideways.

 

[Boz Mon]

I was also thinking an older MR2, but I had a friend tell me they tend to understeer and when you get sideways, they straighten out instead of staying sideways.

Ive heard that it's actually the opposite of that. They overseteer and spin easily. But I could be wrong.

 

[sicbeing]

Well I figured an Mid Engine car would come with loads of oversteer, but I heard differently, I'd have to try for myself.

 

[Wolfe]

With mid-engined cars, you have less weight on the front wheels, which can lead to understeer, but you also have a heavy engine and transaxle sitting behind you, ready to swing out like a pendulum if you aren't careful. The same goes for rear-engined cars like the 911, to an even greater extent.

As for beginner drift cars, I'd stay away from anything big, heavy, or powerful. You're going to want something light and relatively low-powered to start with, as it'll be more managable, and much less likely to get you into trouble.

AE86 - It used to be a great choice, but it's overrated now, and as a result, horribly overpriced.

240SX - See above.

Miata - This one would be excellent. Extremely balanced, with a small 4-cylinder, but wouldn't be capable of high horsepower numbers for the future, when you're better at drifting.

Old Mustang - I know I said to avoid anything big, heavy, or powerful, but the older ones from the 80's and early 90's were actually rather skinny, and the V4/V6 ones aren't very powerful.

Old BMW 3-series - Another great choice. Great handling, and not very powerful, but can be made plenty powerful down the road.

Mercedes 190E - An old 3-series rival. Won't accept power mods as well as a 6-cylinder 3-series or Mustang, though.

Old MR2 - Small, light, and relatively weak, but with its MR layout, it's arguably more difficult to drift than an FR.

Pontiac Fiero - See above.

I would also recommend that you first learn how to drift on rainy days. Not only does it make losing traction simpler and easier to deal with, it also saves tire tread.

 

[sicbeing]

Thanks for the information.

Right now on rainy days (a few months ago used to be everyday was a rainy day here in FL) I try to learn how to control myself in either my Civic Sedan or my Focus Sedan. On dirt roads I can swing the Focus around pretty nicely (or I'd think so, anyway) and keep it sideways throughout the turn (not really drifting, but controlling it sideways).

Rain is still a different story, I just go down deserted roads at about 30-40 mph and try to feint and swing just a tiny bit, just enough to throw out my back end and then swing it back into grip. Fun, but scary.

I really don't do it that often though, just kind of screwing around when I get the open chances.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I was actually considering suggesting a 190E myself, but the 2.3s are positively anemic, and even they're expensive (relatively) in 5spd models.

 

[sicbeing]

I don't know why I am asking when I'm sure the answer is no, but are there any older cars like the one's we're talking about that come in 4wd/Awd? I know that FR would probably be best to learn with, but I'm just curious.

EDIT

Actually, about the AE86, I've seen it in the 3 episodes of Initial D that I own, (Evo vs 86) they call it the Eight-Six. I did a Google image search on it looking for info. Is it a Toyota Corrola AE86 or something like that? I've never seen one on the roads or anything.

 

[194GVan]

The ones you will find here in the states are just Toyota Corollas. AE86 refers to the chassis code for the car. (like FC3S and FD3S for RX-7s) The best one you could get in the states was a Toyota Corolla GTS, but there were also lesser models (SR-5) without an LSD and a few other differences (different motor I think). I am far from an expert on the cars but thats what (I think) I know, and I agree that in the current market they are horribly overpriced compared to other RWD cars you could get instead.

Just a quick search on autotrader, pulled up a Corolla SR-5, carbed engine with 200k miles, an unpainted jdm zenki bodykit, a mismatched fender (red fender, white car) and hardly a handful of very small upgrades and the guy is asking $2500!

 

[sicbeing]

The ones you will find here in the states are just Toyota Corollas. AE86 refers to the chassis code for the car. (like FC3S and FD3S for RX-7s) The best one you could get in the states was a Toyota Corolla GTS, but there were also lesser models (SR-5) without an LSD and a few other differences (different motor I think). I am far from an expert on the cars but thats what (I think) I know, and I agree that in the current market they are horribly overpriced compared to other RWD cars you could get instead.

Just a quick search on autotrader, pulled up a Corolla SR-5, carbed engine with 200k miles, an unpainted jdm zenki bodykit, a mismatched fender (red fender, white car) and hardly a handful of very small upgrades and the guy is asking $2500!

Thanks for the info, AE86 being the code makes much more sense now. I'm not familiar with any codes except for my old honda (EGb16 or something).

2+k for something like that is ridiculus, I'd pay maybe 300-500 for something that needs OEM Fascia and fenders and a paint job, maybe even less than that, like 100-200 . I'd have to know what the minor upgrades were to go from there.