Ben Spies a threat to Rossi's crown?

Discussion in 'Motorcycles' started by A2K78, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. A2K78

    A2K78

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  2. GTP_Deathwalker

    GTP_Deathwalker

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    i can certainly see spies at Fiat yamaha in 2011 if the Rossi - Lorenzo ultimatum does in fact happen.
     
  3. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    I wouldn't put it past Rossi saying "Spies is a threat" as simply a bit of pre-season psychological battling. Rossi's done the same thing before - he often praised Sete Gibernau as being very quick before absolutely battering him out on the circuit, and it's happened more than once. Gibernau completely crumbled after a while. Casey Stoner has done the same. Max Biaggi didn't even get close and he was regarded as being one of the best riders in the world at one stage.

    I think Spies' biggest problem is in moving from Superbikes. Only one or two riders have ever done anything remotely good in moving that direction and only then if they were given an absolutely top bike.

    I'd like to see Spies do well as he's been very impressive, but I think Rossi's comments are just a bit of polite pre-season banter...
     
  4. A2K78

    A2K78

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    While I agree with all of this, still I wouldn't count Spies out as being a real threat and condender to Rossi's crown. Overall though it would be nice to see how Spies perform with Tech 3.

    Ontop of Spies, the 250cc champ Aoyama should also be interesting to follow..

    http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/155519/1/aoyama_learning_fast_-_and_getting_faster.html
     
  5. BTH_Lacko_M47

    BTH_Lacko_M47

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    I don't think so. Spies will be one of the good riders but Rossi is the best ever. If he wants to be the world champion he will be unless he gets injured or technical problems.
     
  6. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    I can't say I agree with that. Rossi is far from unbeatable as we've seen many times before. Stoner is a serious threat to Rossi, and would have had a very good shot at the Championship last year had it not been for his illness and missed races mid season. Also, Lorenzo has shown a lot of potential so early in his career, and if he continues to gain experience as he matures, he'll likely be every bit as good as Rossi, given time.

    To say that Rossi will beat Spies simply because he is the greatest ever doesn't really mean that much either, considering you don't have much to base Spies potential ability off of (in Moto GP), other than his phenomenal riding in AMA, SBK, and two races in Moto GP where he looked quite solid. You can never count anyone out (in the case of Spies), especially before the cards have been shown.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  7. BTH_Lacko_M47

    BTH_Lacko_M47

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    timeattack07gt

    "You can never count anyone out (in the case of Spies), especially before the cards have been shown".

    It's true but up coming shining stars are there every year and they can't prove much except Lorenzo. When Rossi wasn't the champion ('06 Hayden, '07 Stoner) he had had technical problems or tyre problems. I know it's a technical sport but only blinds can't see Rossi is above everyone else in the motogp category.
    I hope too that Spies will be competitive to Rossi because races were boring a bit sometimes.
     
  8. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    The only thing is, and as I mentioned before, Rossi could have very well came in 2nd place in the Championship had it not been for Stoner's mid season illness/missed races last year, which would have brought the issue of him being head and shoulders above the rest into question. So in truth, Rossi was lucky that Casey had such problems...otherwise he would have had a very serious threat on his hands, despite having no technical problems of his own.

    Once Stoner came back and was healthy, he put on some mighty impressive performances, especially at Malaysia where he won by some 15 seconds in the wet. IMO, a healthy Casey Stoner has the potential to really take it to Rossi. Casey is only 24 and has already shown immense potential when he's healthy, on a bike that is supposed to be quite difficult to ride to.

    Either way, I'm really looking forward to next years action :tup:

    Nice avatar btw :sly: It really caught my eye :lol:
     
  9. niky

    niky Moderator

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    Rossi is the greatest ever... in the opinion of many (including mine)... but that doesn't mean it's an automatic win for him. It's like Michael Schumacher... being the best means everyone is out to beat you... and eventually, someone will... errh... again.

    Of course, Rossi's a much nicer guy than Herr Schumacher... :D ...thus, I'll still be cheering him on.

    Aoyama for third in the championship. :D :D :D
     
  10. ripping_silk

    ripping_silk

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    I'd agree that Rossi is the greatest ever. But I don't agree that he will neccesarily win this years championship. Lorenzo has the capability to take one or two races from him when everything falls into place. Stoner is indeed a huge threat. No-one else can get what he can out of the Ducati, and as previously mentioned, if Stoner had not been ill for a good part of last year, the end result could have been a lot different.
    Spies is just another cat among the pigeons. He obviously has great skill, and I don't think it will take too long for him to come to grips with the premier class bikes. its true that few riders have made a successful switch from Superbike to the Premier class, but in most of the memorable cases, it has been when two strokes have been the premier class. And there is a huge difference between a superbike and a 500cc 2 stroke.
    So I would say that to move from one class to another is easier than it once was, and this can only be to Ben Spies advantage.
    Valentino certainly has his work cut out for him this season with the younger guys coming through, but all things being equal, I would still pick him for the title. I think the biggest threat will be Stoner, that Ducati is his, and if they get everything sorted for him, he is going to to be very very hard to beat.
    Spies? not in 2010, but come 2011, things may be a little different (IF he has the bike).
     
  11. blackjack

    blackjack

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    Lorenzo has alot of potential I think, and being on equal machinery I think Lorenzo is in the best seat to press Rossi's buttons. Clearly not as consistent as Rossi, but his skill made some of the most entertaining races in 09 possible. I think his hunger for a Championship in the Premier class is going to give him alot of motivation in 2010.

    As for Stoner, well the guy knows how to ride fast, has already convincingly won a world championship (with the pressure of rossi on his back). I can't see how he isn't going to get stronger and stronger both mentally and physically if his "lactose" issues are sorted.

    Spies is a talent, no surprises there from his history in SBK, if the top runners are fighting hard enough between themselves, his consistency will be something to look out for. but I think he still has alot to pick up in terms of riding Motogp machines on the new circuits compared to the exp that other have.

    at the end of the day the main thing I want is some close racing for the 2010 season!

    my 2 cents
     
  12. Stotty

    Stotty Premium

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    He certainly has a heap of talent, but until he's on one of the top factory bikes he'll not be challenging for the title... whether he has access to Vale's data or not, Tech 3 is not going to get all the latest Yamaha upgrades at the same time as the Fiat team.

    IMO, 2010 will be another Rossi - Stoner battle (now Casey seems to have got over his 'fatigue virus'), with Lorenzo being up there too and the occassional win or bust for Perdrosa.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  13. Drillah

    Drillah

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    If Ben challenges for wins this year on the Tech 3 bike then when he get's a factory ride he should be able to challenge for the title.
    But not this year on the Tech 3 bike.
     
  14. red7

    red7

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    Watching Ben Spies always blows my mind. He throws his body over into the corner so aggressively it's just unreal. It will indeed be interesting to see how spies adapts to the style of riding motogp requires though he has already shown good pace at valencia and in testing the tech 3 at sepang this year. The peaky 800cc engines are down on torque and require high mid-corner speeds. The bridgestones used in motogp are harder than the pirellis in wsbk and also need very high, consistent lateral loading to produce sufficient heat and grip. In wsbk riders can toss it in there and point and shoot the bike through the corners. A factory ride would surely allow spies to take the fight to rossi, but I'm thinking that when the new 1000cc rules come about in 2012 the added torque will allow riders to let their different styles shine. Rossi on a ducati and spies the factory yamaha in 2012 would be a great battle to look forward to.:tup:






    Just a great vid showing off his raw talent.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  15. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    Another thing I thought of - Spies should lose some weight to help even the playing field :scared: He's at least a good ~10-15lbs heavier than Rossi, 25lbs heavier than Lorenzo and Stoner, and over 35lbs heavier than Pedrosa...

    Of course In moto gp every bit counts, and we've seen the disgusting straightline advantage Pedrosa has had in some races :yuck:
     
  16. red7

    red7

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    I hadn't thought of that. Not to get too off topic, but motogp should implement a minimum bike+rider weight that is heavier than the heaviest rider on the grid. That way everyone would be even but the lighter riders would still have the advantage by using the excess weight beyond their body weight as strategic ballast. Minimum weight for a 4 cyl. bike is currently 148kg/326 pounds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  17. Stotty

    Stotty Premium

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    Weight can be a disadvantage, but likewise, being too small/light a la Pedrosa can also be a bit of a disdvantage... Danni is really a bit too small/light for MotoGP.
     
  18. Neal

    Neal Premium

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    One of the things that makes Rossi so good is the way he moves his weight around on the bike to generate grip where he wants so there is quite a good argument that too little weight can be a disadvantage in controlling the bike. Pedrosa's speed down the straights is also due to his extremely small size and the aerodynamic advantage of being able to disappear behind the fairing. I don't think Spies is as big as Edwards and his size doesn't hold him up too much so I guess....err, what was my point :confused:

    ;)
     
  19. GTP_Deathwalker

    GTP_Deathwalker

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    Like the 125cc are currently required to be all the same weight (rider/bike combined)?
     
  20. red7

    red7

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    Yes like the 125s as a quick thought of mine. However evilneal's point of using more mass to balance and load the tires to your advantage does make sense to me. Being that motogp seems to be about keeping up corner speed to make the bridgestones work right, whatever power/weight and aero advantages lost on the straights could be made up for or overcome with crafty use of mass.
     
  21. Neal

    Neal Premium

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    Looks like Spies is going to have his work cut out to beat Rossi as he's already on great form in pre season testing, He's broken his own pole position record at Sepang in testing. Looks like the old guard is still on top for now, I find it odd to think of Rossi in that way as he's still a kid in my mind!

    Roll on Qatar and 11th April

    Below is the test results, Lorrenzo is missing due to a hand injury.

    Malaysia MotoGP pre-season testing times:

    1 V Rossi (Ita) Fiat Yamaha 2:00.271
    2 C Stoner (Aus) Ducati 2:00.512
    3 N Hayden (USA) Ducati 2:00.703
    4 C Edwards (USA) Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.988
    5 B Spies (USA) Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.014
    6 L Capirossi (Ita) Rizla Suzuki 2:01.320
    7 A Dovizioso (Ita) Repsol Honda 2:01.439
    8 D Pedrosa (Sp) Repsol Honda 2:01.478
    9 H Aoyama (Jpn) Interwetten-Honda MotoGP 2:01.692
    10 A Bautista (Sp) Rizla Suzuki 2:01.732
    11 R de Puniet (Fr) LCR Honda 2:01.980
    12 M Melandri (Ita) San Carlo Honda Gresini 2:02.078
    13 H Barbera (Sp) Aspar Team 2:02.080
    14 M Kallio (Fin) Pramac Green Team 2:02.082
    15 A Espargaro (Sp) Pramac Green Team 2:02.367
    16 M Simoncelli (Ita) San Carlo Honda Gresini 2:03.689
     
  22. red7

    red7

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    Lol, yeah me too sometimes, funny that we're actually about the same age.:sly:

    Tech 3 yamies certainly looking rapid, better than factory honda?!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  23. Neal

    Neal Premium

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    Indeed! Many a time I've said a footballer or racer is getting on a bit only to realise they're younger than me :lol: I guess it's partly because I forget I'm not as young as I used to be! I think it hits home when I drive down a familiar mountain road and remember when I rode it on my bike at more than twice the speed…with my brother on the back! Sounds like the well know biker phrase “The older I get, the faster I was” :D


    Tech 3 are looking very promising, I hope Edwards has a decent season this year. He's been one of my favourites since the WSB Troy Bayliss days but always seems to be the underdog. Repsol Honda are well off the pace so far, I'd imagine there's some long hours being done in Japan to sort that out before the the season starts!
     
  24. RickyRacer

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    As much as I love Ben, I'd be shocked if he finishes the year in the top 3. If Ben had a factory bike my prediction would change but being on a Tech 3 I look for him to finish around 5th or 6th.
     
  25. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    Ben having ridden on much of the MotoGP tracks in SBK will be a benefit to his chances, however he has not ridden in such an aggressive pack as he will in MGP. I agree, 3rd will not surprise anyone, but 4-6th is expected. Especially since he is riding a satellite team bike.