BESTuners Tryout Report II: Blake has been accepted!

[DuckRacer]

NISMO 270R ’94



Deep Forest Raceway: 1'09.397

BESTuner: Blake​

Exterior
At first glance the 270R doesn’t look that special – definitely beautiful, but not particularly special. The first time you hear the high-ptiched scream of the 519BHP ground-tearing engine, however, you realise that this car is something special.

​

Stats
Engine: 1998cc L4
Power: 519BHP at 6000rpm
Drivetrain: FR
Mass: 1091kg

Parts to buy
Exhaust
Racing exhaust & air filter: $4,600

Brakes
Racing brakes kit: $4,600
Brake controller: $10,300

Engine
Port polish: $5,250
Engine balancing: $11,000
Racing chip: $1,250

Drivetrain
Transmission / Fully customisable: $10,200
Triple clutch: $4,600
Racing flywheel: $1,000
Variable LSD: $6,300
Carbon driveshaft: $2,750

Turbo
Stage 3 turbine kit: $41,500
Large racing intercooler: $2,750

Suspension
Fully customisable suspension: $16,000

Tyres
Racing / Qualifying: $47,250

Other
Weight reduction stage 1: $1,100
Weight reduction stage 2: $5,300
Weight reduction stage 3: $21,000
Increased rigidity: $30,000

Total tuning budget: $226,700

Set up
Brake Balence
Front: 6
Rear: 5

Suspension
Spring Rate: 15 / 14
Ride Height: 83 / 85
Damper (Bound): 8 / 8
Damper (Rebound): 8 / 8
Camber Angle: 1.2 / 0.6
Toe: 0 / -1
Stabaliser: 6 / 6

Gear Ratios
Auto setting: 17
1st: 2.203
2nd: 1.429
3rd: 1.056
4th: 0.842
5th: 0.705
Final: 4.111

Downforce
Front: 30
Rear: 25


LSD
Initial: 5
Acceleration: 25
Deceleration: 15

Driving Aids
ASM Oversteer: 0
ASM Understeer: 0
TCS: 0

​

Pros on track
The NISMO 270R is a very fast car with a lot of power, good handling, and great brakes. It will stop on a dime, if you need it to, and definitely isn’t sluggish on the uptake once the turbo kicks in.

This car is generally very stable, and is able to handle the small bumps very well. The great part about this car, however, is the pull you can get out of corners – put the throttle down mid-corner and you will have no trouble getting the tail out!

​

Cons on track
The biggest problem with car, however, is its ability – or lack thereof – to handle big bumps, such as those found on the Nurburgring. As it was set up around Deep Forest, there was no real need to take into account the bigger bumps, and if the car is unstabalised it will often snap into heavy oversteer.

Also, unfortunately, the car was a little slow from a standing start. Once you get the engine up to 5000RPM, however, it is all go! Fortunatly, because of the close gearing, you will never really find the car outside of the power-band, so this is not a problem – apart from the standing starts.

​

Verdict
If you drive this car you will find that it is a joy to drive: the look, the sound, it all makes for a beautiful driving experience. Although this car can’t handle the bigger bumps and curbs so well, it is still a lot of fun and, if anything, this small problem only adds to challenge of taming this elegant beast.

​

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

Now this is much shorter, and although I liked the previous one, I think this one is way better.

It's short but it feels like the wrighter didn't skip anything. This is the car and this is what you get....it's a nice report, more focused on speed really...

It's awsome IMO:tup: Plus the settings first again gives you a feel "this is the car, this is what it does".

Very nice:tup:

 

[Mt. Lynx]

A bit different with the stats and setup in the beginning. Good, but a bit on the short side I think. I like the reviews long, informative and fun to read. I can´t say this was vey funny though, but quite informative, short as it is. Language is good, although there are spellingmistakes.
The pics seem actionpacked, rather than beautiful, but I have no complaints on that!
But compared to the other BESTuners, this is too plain and too short. My vote is No.

 

[Kent]

Is it ok for me to vote this time?
I wouldn't want to give feedback that results in whip-lash because I disagree and explain why.

Well, in any case, I'm going ahead with my post.

I am not sure how this review should be judged. That is primarily because it is not the first review to be viewed as an appllication, and furthermore, it is very similar with the exception of a few things that were suggested in the other applicant's review.

The total tuning budget... Great idea, it's something I asked for or suggested in the other applicant's review. But that makes me wonder, should this person get extra credit for that?

This person's review, if anything, should be judged harder than the previous attmept since the applicant had the advantage of seeing how people reacted to the first application.

That said...

Grammar seemed fine.

Photos were excellent in style and quality, but pictures of other courses seem out of place in a review of a car tested and reviewed based on a deep forest run.

The specs and price listings were well done but I still didn't see the all important PWR listed with the power and weight (I mean, who wants to do the math ).

The settings are one spot where I am hesitant to give a thumbs up.
It seems like the driver couldn't determine what the car did in stock form and adjusted the car to settings that seemed appropriate.

For example...
(quoted from above)

(reasonable)
Brake Balence
Front: 6
Rear: 5

(odd... see bottom for explanation)
Suspension
Spring Rate: 15 / 14
Ride Height: 83 / 85
Damper (Bound): 8 / 8
Damper (Rebound): 8 / 8
Camber Angle: 1.2 / 0.6
Toe: 0 / -1
Stabaliser: 6 / 6

(must assume they are fitting for the track and so, 👍 )
Gear Ratios
Auto setting: 17
1st: 2.203
2nd: 1.429
3rd: 1.056
4th: 0.842
5th: 0.705
Final: 4.111

(odd... see below)
Downforce
Front: 30
Rear: 25


(no comment)
LSD
Initial: 5
Acceleration: 25
Deceleration: 15

(just what it should be for a review like this 👍 )
Driving Aids
ASM Oversteer: 0
ASM Understeer: 0
TCS: 0

First, remember that settings can be opinion based and my views of what works and doesn't work, might not be the same as your views.

Suspension = odd?
Springs: 15/14...
High settings for deep forest but in relation to one-another, the f/r seems to establish a slight understeer bias (which is fitting for the 270R on DF). (still very high springs for deep forest even when using 500+ hp)

Ride Height: 83/85...
This seems odd since the trend with the springs was to counter-act the 270R's natural tendancy to drift and in this RH setting, the rear will more easily drift than at an even 83/83 or 85/85.
Why not just even out the springs and lose the tail-wagging rearward height bias?

Bound and Rebound: 👍 👍
Not only do I agree, but I give the applicant credit for avoiding the cliche "rebound > bound" (especially on this course where digging down into the up hill and bouncing down hard on the down hill can be a danger for the handling).

Camber: 👍 👍
Another big credit earner for this applicant is the use of low camber.
With springs that stiff and RSS tires, the camber needs to be reduced so contact is higher for more of the lap... If the camber were increased there is a chance it wouldn't be used.
Furthermore, the applicant shows once again that they have the ability to avoid the cliche and use what works. 👍

Toe:
I never use toe. Only on the F1 car do I adjust the toe (to a lower level).
With proper tuning on the other settings toe adjustment is unnecessary and only serves to slow the car down (assuming toe has the same effect as it did in GT3).

Stabilizers: 👍
The stabilizers seem too high for a track like deep forest (although we all may disagree on that).

LSD: No Comment

Down Force: 👍
I worry that using 30/25 df may create instability at high speed and on high speed turn-in as well as during high speed braking.

Over all:
I feel like this applicant showed the ability to present material well, create interesting photos, and avoid using cliches from other members' settings.

However, I also feel like the reasons for the settings used were not clearly presented (this is a concern to me since I still feel like "BESTuners" implies you are one of the best tuners around).

With a little work, this applicant could be a real winner.

Now, since he got the chance to see our responses to the first application, maybe the first applicant should get another chance?

 

[Boundary Layer]

I'll agree that this report is superior to the previous audition, but it still rasies concerns for me.

First - it is very brief. There's nothing there to convince me to try the posted settings. Something in the writing is lacking the creative whallop to really get me excited about the car.

Secondly (and this by far outwieghs the first for me) - the tuner seems relatively inexperienced, or unclear on some of the settings.

As an illustration of this: observe the dampers - they are left stock at 8-8, 8-8. Then, there is this quote about 'Track Cons':

The biggest problem with car, however, is its ability – or lack thereof – to handle big bumps, such as those found on the Nurburgring. As it was set up around Deep Forest, there was no real need to take into account the bigger bumps, and if the car is unstabalised it will often snap into heavy oversteer.

It seems to me that no effort was made to get the car to handle the larger bumps at all. It is only addressed in the form of a complaint. Infact, I find it likely that the settings that were changed made the ride worse (ie - stabilizer settings of 6-6).
I realize it is customary of BESTuners to create their settings primarily for DF - but I think some effort should also be made to creating a car that can be driven relatively well on a variety of track surfaces.



The pictures are interesting though. Perhaps a bit repetitive by the 3rd or fourth 'big air' type shot. But still interesting.

- - - - - - -

With BESTuner's best interests in mind, I'm going to put up another 'no' on this one.

 

[Scaff]

Short and sweet report, well written but a bit short and light on content. However the content is at least relevent.

The pictures are also well done with a good range of shots.

Now I will reserve my judgement on this one until I have tested the settings, but in this area I have my doubts.

From a quick glance the car just looks far to stiff and the write up and pictures would tend to support this.

The spring rates, Damper settings and Anti-roll bar settings all look far to stiff, much stiffer than I have ever needed to use at Deep Forest.

As far as the relationship between bound and rebound, I believe that testing is the only way to determine the correct relationship. Also that as the bound / rebound ratio has a huge impact on how a car feels, I can't agree with Kent that this is a cliche.

I find my damper settings feel 'right' for me with rebound firmer than bound. This does not mean I go straight to this setting, nor that I always use it. Anyone who knows my posts should know the rather anal level of detail I go to in testing.

However these are the default damper settings for Race suspension and as such have the feel of being left alone for fear of making things worse.

The ride height looks a little on the low side, the slight raise at the rear does seem a little strange given the small degree involved.

Toe I find has a large role to play in GT4, particularly in regard to initial turn-in grip (before the weight has transfered to the outside front tyre) and controlling lift-off oversteer (rear toe). -1 rear toe may be helping to slow some of the power on and lift off oversteer.

Camber is a tricky one, and I have no intention of passing comment until I have driven the car, Deep Forest is a track that can need a good level of camber, but it does depend on the car.

Downforce looks far to high for a bumpy old circuit like this and may be the reason why such stiff settings are being used, that doesn't make it right, in fact it may be a major part of the problem with the cars inability to handle bumps.

I will try and give this set-up a run tonight and see what the end result is, holding off on my vote until then.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Kent]

As far as the relationship between bound and rebound, I believe that testing is the only way to determine the correct relationship. Also that as the bound / rebound ratio has a huge impact on how a car feels, I can't agree with Kent that this is a cliche.

Regards

Scaff

I suppose "Cliche" does have a negative implication attached to it, I apologize for me error.
(I always try to think of cliche in more of a "popular culture" kind of way).

Regarding the general skepticisms of suspension tuning and whatnot...
This has all been coming with someone who chooses to race on Semi-Race, Original, and Full Custom Susupensions in a bias for the cheap stuff. :crackhead:

My tuning habits can be strange but they seem to work well.
The "Original" carried me to a "silver" mid-pack D1 positiion last week (lucky week ) on Deep Forest. 👍

Great week for the tuners out there too.
Any Used S2000
285 HP / Weight Reduction Stage 3
All Full Custom Race Equipment or worse.
No turbo/ NA tuning
N-Tire (any combo)

It was one of the best combos I've run in a long time. Very interesting too... 💡
Did you all know the S2000 Type-V '01 at Stage 3 weight reduction weighs less than a Normal Stage 3 weight reduced S2000 '01?
(even though they start with the type-v heavier)

Anyway,
Even in a race like that I was running with the original for the sake of using an "equalized" suspension system (while saving money).
Maybe I'm just a fool.

Now I just wish I had more of a bank account for tuning.
(or an editor for, amongst other things, wheels! )


Catch you all later.

Btw, I've finally made my vote on this contestant's worthiness of "BESTuner" status. 👍 👎 (guess ).

 

[DuckRacer]

Now I just wish I had more of a bank account for tuning.

AR MAX + Max Cash = 4,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 Cr. (at least)

And the cool thing is that I don't have to wait for B-spec Bob to finish the same race over and over again, just to build up some wealth. 👍

 

[zefff]

I actually thought it was a wrong move of the 'Tuners to give their own opinions because of the advantage gained by later entrants, but I voted no for this one too. It needs depth, spirit and it doesnt convey anything that captures my interest. The photography also seems disjointed and hurried - like an afterthought. If I'm going to spend $226,700 on a car I want more info on the investment and sexy pictures that turn my head.

Anyway (Yes I know its called BEstuners but...), its weird because a lot of emphasise has been given to the settings here recently. Settings which have been crafted by 'the reviewer'. I think there might be a tendancy to lose impartiality as the work becomes less of a review and more of a PR article for the 'Tuners product.

This is why Scaff is my top man. Because he breaks it down elaborates on the traits and nuances of a base car before mentioning any modifications - and then its in a descriptive, detailed manner with reasons given and analysis made which provides interest and gives insight for the reader. I find the depth inherent in his style of reviewing miles better than a "yeah its hot, yeah its slammin', its a sweet ride" type of affair.

Enough butt kissing, all I wanted to say was that the reviews need to be kept in context. The reader wants to be intelligently informed while being entertained...well I do!

peace bros

P.S. <BLATANT ADVERT HIJACK> ZAsylum 500's long awaited RX7 '00 Type RS will be unveiled tommorrow!

 

[Scaff]

I suppose "Cliche" does have a negative implication attached to it, I apologize for me error.
(I always try to think of cliche in more of a "popular culture" kind of way).

No problem at all Kent, not so much an error, more a misunderstanding (on my part) as to the use of a word. No big thing.

This is why Scaff is my top man. Because he breaks it down elaborates on the traits and nuances of a base car before mentioning any modifications - and then its in a descriptive, detailed manner with reasons given and analysis made which provides interest and gives insight for the reader. I find the depth inherent in his style of reviewing miles better than a "yeah its hot, yeah its slammin', its a sweet ride" type of affair.

Damn, now how am I going to keep living up to that. Joking aside, its always good to get feedback (and even better when its possitive).


Anyway onto the Nismo 270R now I've had a chance to drive it with these settings.

As I suspected this particular set-up is far stiffer than I personally like, a lot of that seems to be down to the maxed out downforce. The additional load from this requires it to run very stiff springs and dampers. Which in turn cause the problems with the bumps and rumble strips.

I also found the Anti-roll bars were causing a few issue with me when turning the car in.

The rear toe setting did help, much as I suspected, to quell the onset of oversteer. But, as alwasy the laws of physics can't be removed and when it did come the hard settings brought it on with a vengance.

For me this car needs a lot less downforce and a bit of a softening up, but remember this is all personal.

One area that really did shine in this set-up was the gear ratios, they did an excellent job of taming the turbo. 👍

I must confess I am still not 100% sure how to vote on this one, as the member responsiable for this set-up has a lot of potential, but it still smacks a little of 'formula' tuning (i.e. max the springs, drop the ride height, etc), on which my views are generally quite well known.

Going to have to sleep on this one.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Kent]

AR MAX + Max Cash = 4,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 Cr. (at least)

And the cool thing is that I don't have to wait for B-spec Bob to finish the same race over and over again, just to build up some wealth. 👍

I've got ubersaves but I use a personal account.
As much as I enjoy the advantage of a game save device, I still don't find it as helpful without the MKS garage editor.

Oh well.

Btw, I use the old Xport to move my game saves so if the AR Max can add credits to your personal account I may have to buy one (although I don't think they can do that).
(rather, they just transfer a pre-made "cheated" account onto your mem card)

=========
Edit:

Scaff posted while I was waiting to post and I didn't see his words.

True they are. 👍

I'm thinking I need to spend some more time in the tuning forum because I just love testing and reviewing.

 

[ekmatt9]

Good report. Good settings. Good pics. I vote yes 👍

 

[DuckRacer]

I've got ubersaves but I use a personal account.
As much as I enjoy the advantage of a game save device, I still don't find it as helpful without the MKS garage editor.

Oh well.

Btw, I use the old Xport to move my game saves so if the AR Max can add credits to your personal account I may have to buy one (although I don't think they can do that).
(rather, they just transfer a pre-made "cheated" account onto your mem card)

Yes, you can use the AR MAX to put max cash on your personal save.

 

[DuckRacer]

Anyone else like to comment?

 

[Scaff]

Edit:

Scaff posted while I was waiting to post and I didn't see his words.

True they are. 👍

I'm thinking I need to spend some more time in the tuning forum because I just love testing and reviewing.

Thanks Kent, gald you enjoyed my ramblings, and the more the merrier over in the Tuning and Settings furom, I need a bigger audience for my rantings.

I've cast my vote on this one, part out of mischief and part out of potential (this report is not quite the write-up it could have been and the setting sare to my mind a mixed bag - some good, some bad).

Any way my vote levels the score at 50% each way.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Mike Rotch]

I like this one better then the previous one. Firstly it doesnt have ASM on and secondly makes mention of more handling characteristics - specifically about ability to hanlde bumps and curbs.

Again, I would have prefered a write-up without a wing, but . With some more elaboration in pro and con sections, it would be great.

It gets my vote.

 

[DuckRacer]

Ok, my review.

I tested the settings. The brake settings looked good. The ASM and TCS being off is good. When I was adjusting the suspension values, though, the settings semmed a little... weird. For example, lowering is completely to minimum, and the springs being so stiff as to reach it's maximum. As well as the stabilizers being so stiff. When I went to the LSD, everything looked good. The accel value being low enough to help cornering, but it helps get a good grip when accelerating out of the corner. Speaking of accelerating, I thought the tranny values were weird. This person says that it takes a while to get the power on when going from a standstill. This could've been fixed if this person would've shortened the first two or three gears, instead of completely stretching them. If this person was tuning the tranny so you won't have to worry about wheelspin, well, having R5s on cures it immediately. But, this person could've had people who use S2s in mind, like me. Anyway, I'm going to test the car.

I started out with the default set-up in use, with R5s, full downforce, no aids, and fully modded. It handled bumps fine, but when I went to turn through Turns 1 and 2 on Midfield, it understeered. Not much, but it did. Using this guy's set-up, turning through turns 1 and 2 hasn't been easier. You already know by this point that the car won't have a single problem through the course. And it didn't. Heck, I went through Turn 3, the kink, full throttle. Without even braking. Granted, I got into the grass on the left some, but making it through full throttle is an impressive feat, by itself. I felt invincible.

I took it to Deep Forest, and it wasn't completely stable. It wasn't bumped around as much as my cars (which is usually a lot), but it got a jolt or two.

I felt the Nurburgring unstableness wasn't needed. You need a seperate set-up to go there, anyway. It's a rare occurance to make a set-up optimized for a relatively flat track that works well with the Green Hell (hey, I'm a poet, and didn't know it!).

I thought the pics were good. Not overly professional like the PS masters (like Div, 440 Charger, VR6), but they weren't lousy, either.

The review was decent. If I had 300,000 Cr, and I could only spend it on one car, it wouldn't convince me to buy the 270R. But it does me me think about it. Pretty hard, too. I felt there was stuff that needed to be spoken. The Nismo 270R is a big dog, and it definitely wants some steak. Maybe if the report could have a lot more detail, but with the same good flow it's carrying already.


My vote? Yes.

 

[DuckRacer]

Ok, this thread will be closed. The report was by Blake. We haven't decided to let him in yet, but we're thinking about it. Thank you for your votes.

 

[DuckRacer]

Ok, Blake has been accepted to BESTuners! Please leave your final comments.

 

[DonS1mpson]

So does that mean the Competition is over?

 

[DuckRacer]

So does that mean the Competition is over?

No, not really. If both 95VR6 and kennythebomb don't make it, it still goes on. If one or both make it, it's over.

 

[Kent]

Congratulations Blake.

Job well done. 👍

I'll be looking forward to your upcoming reviews.
I suggest you put a link to your newest reviews in your sig (then update accordingly).

Good luck with your future reviews.
Until next time,
-Kent

 

[Blake]

Thanks Kent! And just for you I&#8217;ll put the link in my sig.