Beware the 100% Clones

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Touring Mars

Touring Mars

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I feel I must raise the issue of the 100% Clones... I worry that GT4 online racing leagues may become swamped by those among us who feel that a 100% win ratio is the be-all and end-all, and who may create new online personas ('clones') each time they lose a race, in order to maintain their on-line 100% win ratio...

It's a subtle yet important point, that a 100% win ratio is meaningless... by that I mean that the only way you can achieve such a statistic is by design, and as such is NOT a measure of ones racing prowess.

A real measure of how good you really are at GT, is to accept your loses and race against others who do likewise. Surely it is better to be beaten by the best, than it is to beat those who you know you are going to beat?

I know that the more experienced players among us will go online with the same spirit as we played GT3... the spirit of a close, competitive race, against opponents who respect you for your skill, and not your win ratio...

I suppose this is a pre-emptive plea to those people who are obsessed by the meaningless goal of winning every race to play fair, and to abide by the spirit with which the GT series was created... to offer a genuine racing simulation... and unless you're Michael Schumacher, that means allowing fair and free competition and declaring your TRUE statistics.

Look forward to seeing you all online in August! :-)

Touring Mars
 
good call there.... i have seen the clone thing happen on other online games...

personally I belive there is more pride in loosing to the best then beating the worse...

"To be the best you have to beat the best"
 
I look forward to seeing the lot of you online, I would never do that because it is pointless, you could genuinly have a 100% win rate but that still wouldn't mean much because you ould have done 100 races against the worst drivers out there, I'm using my current user name and will continue using it. And there is a hell of alot more pride in putting up a good fight but loosiing to a good racer than hammering a crap one.
 
Instead of a win/lose ratio, PD should use some other method imo, eg. give u points after each race acording to ur achievement, have certain ranks which can be gotten after getting certain amount of points... and new leagues for higher ranks etc... well it could record ur no of race starts if that is necessary... but counting losses is pointless: 5 out of 6 in each race is theoretically a loser - and who wants to be one?:trouble:
 
i like a points system...

I think you should get more points for coming in 2nd (or 3rd or fourth) to a higher ranked player then you should get for beating newbies and poor players...

I also think you should have to run time trials before you can race others online. your times in the time trails would then determine your starting rank...
 
They should use win ratios, but not use it as the prime ranking score. A points system would be better.

I look foward to race GTP members. I'll woup all ya'll in my 3000GT. :)
 
i bet, given how they pop-up in the game itself...online one will need to pass some license test to get certian rankings and/or class designation (beginner, am, intermediate, pro, super-pro) something like that. If you passed all license test you could still race in lower leagues but would have car/hp limitations (i.e.. you couldn't go to the sunday cup online with a f094/s and blitz the newbies in their vitzs and score points, or at least the same amount of points....).

I think limiting car types to appropriate leagues/classes will solve this issue. At the same time I would love to see an anything goes area online where you can race anyone and anything....
 
I think there should be a pop-up window before a race starts for an "I agree" confirmination, if you agree about the car that a certain person chose for the race. I know that might get annoying sometimes....but i've rather go through six confirminations and have a fair race, than have a blow-out race, and an easy loss or win. If they can't do that, maybe every car should be set into a class, even if the car is from your garage, and everyone must race from the same class, otherwise the online game won't start. That could be complicated. Hopefully more people will be sincere and not cheat online.
 
Originally posted by slimer90210
i like a points system...

I think you should get more points for coming in 2nd (or 3rd or fourth) to a higher ranked player then you should get for beating newbies and poor players...

I also think you should have to run time trials before you can race others online. your times in the time trails would then determine your starting rank...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea, would require server support by Sony to store rankings/abilities/scores etc... but hopefully that wouldn't be a problem.

After playing Half-Life online for such a time, its always pathetic to see one player ruining the fun of all others by simply killing them before they even spawn. Personally I don't see the fun if there isn't a challenge.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
I look forward to seeing the lot of you online, I would never do that because it is pointless, you could genuinly have a 100% win rate but that still wouldn't mean much because you ould have done 100 races against the worst drivers out there, I'm using my current user name and will continue using it. And there is a hell of alot more pride in putting up a good fight but loosiing to a good racer than hammering a crap one.
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Couldnt have said it better myself.
I would rather loose to someone who have better experience (or just better then me) then me and race me under the same circumstances then win over a "noob". But then again. Maybe the "more experienced" think i am a noob.

//Eddie
 
Hell, I thought I was good a GT3, beat all my mates with ease, then I played some online races and realised I was middle rate.
 
I may be going a little of topic here but would lik to add someything about online play. I have heard people saying they want fair racing and will hate if someone spins them out, i have experienced some online maggot spin me out while racing NFS and it's very frustraiting when they win the race due to there cheating ways...makes you feel sort of robbed inside. I think GT4 should do what NFS:HP2 had for online racing, a choice for colisions to be on or off. I personaly always have them of now and see some people try to hit me and fly straight through me to a barrier, quite amusing really. Don't complain that it's not realistic because i would rather have some guy fly through my tail end rather then spin me out.
 
LOL, I expect my record to be something around 10 wins vs. 3,451,992,983 loses, LOL.

My big American V8 may be fun to drive, but it likely isn't going to beat too many of you all, especially with my level (lack) of talent.

-- Tha Blackfish
 
+I'd be pretty far down the rankings online as well. But as long as i race against those who try to avoid all contact and don't block too much (bad sportsmanship) and those who like having as-clean-as-possible races then i'll be a happy chappy.

But i'll never be able to afford broadband so i'll never be playing any games online. :(
 
Little bit seamless thread IMHO.

Online racing will be part of arcade section of the game and it will have nothing with Gran Turismo mode, I'm 120% sure of that.

Even in future I doubt that online and offline racing and championship will do anything in terms of win ratio in GT mode and so.

And for abandoning the race, I guess that PD thought about it in one of the first places.
 
Good point, but I'm not really talking about the GT mode win ratio... I expect there will be some sort of ranking system based upon your online persona's win ratio... I suppose it's quite a common problem/issue, but I don't think PD can or will have done anything to stop you from doing it. The responsibility will ultimately lie with the racers...

I reckon, however, that it will be largely academic... as live4speed points out, just because one has a 100% win ratio doesn't make one a good racer. It just means you're not playing the game properly... so beware! Look out for the 50-60 percenters who have a couple of thousand racers under their belt, then we'll see the true value of a 100% win ratio... :cool:

P.S. Mustang Man... you will be able to afford broadband sometime surely? You've just got to prioritise your spending... food? beer? other computer games? do you REALLY need them when you're GT4 online future is at stake? :D
 
I think there should be a point system based on how bad you drive (how many collisions you cause). If you put someone to the wall, you get a point. If you rear end someone, you get a point. The ability to turn collision off should be an option for those days when you don't feel like being so clean.

Edit: also, to redeem a clean slate you must finish races w/out hitting anything or anyone.
 
Originally posted by Mustang-man
+I'd be pretty far down the rankings online as well. But as long as i race against those who try to avoid all contact and don't block too much (bad sportsmanship) and those who like having as-clean-as-possible races then i'll be a happy chappy.

But i'll never be able to afford broadband so i'll never be playing any games online. :(
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Dont be so sure, its almost known that they'll include it with arcade mode, but you never know they might stick it with simulation mode, so we could use our moded cars (doubt it but you never know) IMO I belive it will be with arcade mode but I wont say im 100% sure because I dont know that facts and it hasnt been confirmed so its more like a 50-50 chance in my book..
 
Originally posted by dunkee
I think there should be a point system based on how bad you drive (how many collisions you cause). If you put someone to the wall, you get a point. If you rear end someone, you get a point. The ability to turn collision off should be an option for those days when you don't feel like being so clean.

Edit: also, to redeem a clean slate you must finish races w/out hitting anything or anyone.
Click to expand...

That system does seem to be like somewhat of a good idea, but i do'nt think many people (6 online players at one time) can go through a whole race without hitting someone at least once, even if it's not on purpose. And if someone plays dirty and decides to hit the brakes in front of you in the middle of the straightaway, and you hit them, then you would still get the point....which wouldn't be fair. I think that kind of system might be hard to implement into the game.
 
Theres really no win in any system really, only if theres people "moderating" each and every race who would then turn the win lose ratio manually, know what I mean? Because even if they do add the penatly to lose sec. its true people will stop for no reason etc.. just for you to lose, but then again if they lose too then it was worthless really, unless the count the time you bang itno the wall or someone...
 
Originally posted by Touring Mars
P.S. Mustang Man... you will be able to afford broadband sometime surely? You've just got to prioritise your spending... food? beer? other computer games? do you REALLY need them when you're GT4 online future is at stake? :D
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I only buy food every two or three weeks and even then it's only about $50 NZD ($34.95 USD) worth. (i only get $130.00 NZD ($90.85 USD) a week and that has to go to rent, petrol etc...) And i don't drink any sort of alcohol either.

I buy an average of two games a year. That's two games altogether, not two each for the PS2 and computer. (i only have about seven PS2 games and have had the PS2 since the day it launched in the country)

With that amount of money coming in i can't afford to do anything. So my point is that there will be plenty of people out there who could be excellent GT players, but like me cannot afford go go online with their PS2. :(
 
I do not like the points system too much. For people who can't be playing the game much, even less online, even if they were very good, they would have very little points due to not having enough time to put in a good number of races. So they would end up being ranked very low which seems a little unfair. Can't please everyone I guess.
 
Originally posted by Rport03
Theres really no win in any system really, only if theres people "moderating" each and every race who would then turn the win lose ratio manually, know what I mean? Because even if they do add the penatly to lose sec. its true people will stop for no reason etc.. just for you to lose, but then again if they lose too then it was worthless really, unless the count the time you bang itno the wall or someone...
Click to expand...

True....maybe they could tie everything together :odd: They could have ranking for who wins the most, a point system for who collides other cars the most (not walls), and another referral point system...like comments from other racers. I'm sure people will lie but you'll have other things to help find a good oppenent.

Another thing they should have is a records section divided into classes w/ specs of the cars (like HP and Power to weight). That way we won't need to input it on-line.
 
Ranking should be done like so:
Everytime there is an event or a tournament, the people entering the tourney will have some sort of ranking which based on tornament wins. When a player enters the tournament, he will be ranked on how far he went on the tournament. When you check the stats of players, you'll be able to see their how far they got on every tournament they went on, which could be an average... My point is that if there is a ranking system, it should only be counted in tournaments, that way the ranking will have more sense since you can't clone a result when you can only enter once in a specific tournament, and the players you play with are randomly chosen so that will eliminate playing players not so good because at the end, only the best collide. This will also help bringing better tournaments. Players with high rankings wont play on first rounds they will be put in a way so that the players that have the better chance to win would meet up at the final rounds in the tournament.
 
That's cool but I would like to know who the trolls are in the race so that I can stay away from them, givem room to fu<k up then cut in or go around them.
 
I don't think PD would keep track of anyone's win/lose ratio. It just seems so trivial, it doesn't show a driver's skill.
 
I think they should keep track of everything, including how many user accounts have been created on each machine, if you see someone with 2 or 3 thats fair enough but if you see someone with 8 or more, you can pretty much gaurantee they've been changing to keep a 100% record. If they track everything, wins losses, number of pole positions for any race that has qualifying, date the account was activated ect.
 
i dont know if this was mentioned but as for the point system (if ever) it should really be based on your guys opinions. the point system shlould be based on a percentile as to how much percent of the time you are off the dirt and how fast you do your laps and etc. although somone may come in first they can have a lower percentile than you and you can have a higher percentile by being more "perfect" as opposed to wreckless driving and both the ranking and percentage should be combined somehow....

hmmm do you guys understand what i mean... i think i got a little off.. im not sure :D :confused:
 

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