BMW May Sell Engines and Transmissions to GM

[YSSMAN]

BMW May Sell Engines and Transmissions to GM

Word out of Frankfurt from the Financial Times Deutschland is that BMW is in talks to sell engines and transmissions to both General Motors and Fiat. All three companies have declined to officially comment.

The news is interesting, but not surprising. You may recall that GM has been selling transmissions to BMW for well over a decade for use in various 3 Series and 5 Series models (the current BMW 328i automatic uses a 6-speed GM 6L45 unit). So far, however, all have been automatic transmissions.

Speculating about the details, our tipster suggests that BMW may be helping GM with their SMG-style transmission program. As for the engines? It is possible that BMW could be selling its 4.4L V8 for the Cadillac line or lending GM a twin-turbo to compete with Ford's twin-turbo direct-injected V6? Thanks for the tip Brad! [Hey! Thats me!!!]

So yeah, I sent that to them earlier this afternoon after seeing it on GMI. Like they echoed there from my origional E-mail, I'm suspecting that the next generation dual-clutch SMG transmission will be shared with GM, given that they are said to be working on a similar program for the near future. The 4.4L V8 makes sense as well, given that the Ultra V8 program has been shelved.

I think the only other stuff thats hanging out there would be the Valvetronic Peugeot setup out of the MINI for possible use in the Astra or the upcoming Delta-II cars... But other than that, its a very weird proposition indeed...

 

[JCE]

Would be the best thing GM could do. Now if BMW sells them the license to use the Diesel engines that = win.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well that had me thinking too... GM was having a bit of difficulty last I checked getting the VM Motori engines certified in the US, so one wonders if the BMW stuff would go over easier. Problem is, I don't think any of the GM vehicles these days are designed to take a straight-six.

Odd really, because BMW's #1 secret is that they use GM automatics in almost all of their cars, so one wonders how/if GM will cover this one up when it happens...

 

[TopHat]

I think that's pretty cool. But it'd be sorta awkward considering they compete with each other with Cadillac. Transmissions are one thing, but engines are a whole 'nother ballgame.

 

[Wolfe]

Odd really, because BMW's #1 secret is that they use GM automatics in almost all of their cars...

The funny thing is that it really shows when you drive them. When I drove that rental 525i touring in 2005, everything about the car was great except for that stupid failmatic. The chassis was willing, but the transmission had its sights locked onto top gear in automatic mode and took two full seconds after I clicked the paddle to switch gears in manumatic mode.

If BMW actually spent time working on an automatic, I'm sure they could create something almost-worthwhile like Porsche's tiptronic. Then again, their time would ultimately be better spent elsewhere, which is probably why they outsourced to GM to begin with.

...one wonders how/if GM will cover this one up when it happens...

I wouldn't be surprised if they advertised it, touting the "German engineering."

 

[YSSMAN]

If BMW actually spent time working on an automatic, I'm sure they could create something almost-worthwhile like Porsche's tiptronic. Then again, their time would ultimately be better spent elsewhere, which is probably why they outsourced to GM to begin with.

My guess is that its a cost/benefit ratio. The newer 6-speed units are pretty solid, and under certain programming algorithms, can perform quite well (see the Corvette), and it others, cannot (see G8, surprisingly). The thing is, you're going to be hard-pressed to find something that is going to be that reliable, that cheap, and offer that much performance.

...The likely reason why they spend the money for the good ZF stuff in the 7-series...

 

[Jim Prower]

WHAT?!

Well, I guess if GM can have a joint venture with mortal rival Toyota, they can do something with BMW. Interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[YSSMAN]

You are aware that they've already worked together on the Two-Mode hybrid system that just debuted in the Tahoe/Yukon and such, right? I believe BMW's variant appears soon-ish as well, although, I think its going in the 7-series first, right?

 

[forza2.0]

Gonna post this to some BMW friends who always seem to leak info that becomes reality. If they dont say its complete utter rubbish there is validaty to whats quoted above

 

[forza2.0]

Update.

Source says.

Q.I hope the deal concerns only the 4 Cylinders? (Question based on article above)

A.Yes. We are talking about I4 engines co-developed with PSA here. BMW want to lure as many other companies into the project to make the project cheaper & to fight VAG & Toyota economy of scale more successfully. It's a win-win situation for every company involved.

GM (Opel , Daewoo, Saturn), Fiat (Fiat, Alfa Romeo), Daimler (MB, Smart) & Chrysler are targeted.

Mind those are not "BMW engines" but I4 engines (petrol & diesel) co-developed by BMW & PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) yet BMW own the copyright for the engine know-how.

BMW are using these engines in MINI cars only since they are developed for FWD cars.

For usage in 1er, 3er, 5er, X3, X1, Z4 & Z2 BMW will develop a spin-off engine for BMW cars only - for RWD layout. Won't be the same engine used in MINI & Peugeot / Citroen (and potentialy also Fiat, MB, Alfa Romeo, Opel, Daewoo etc) cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

It was the only logical guess I'd have. My guess is the Astra and the rest of the Delta-II cars, come 2010, will be MINI-powered in most variants.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

...their Mini engine has always been seperate and unique to that car. So no real "insider info" there. Plus it just makes sense; I don't see BMW lending out their sixes or eights to a direct rival, I've always felt their engines are one of their prime selling points.

The deal is probably the best thing for GM to do, because I'd trust BMW to develop fine engines of all sizes far before I trust GM, small-block excluded. Their smaller-capacity engines, the I4's in particular, have really improved in the past 10 years. And since I'd assume that's primarily what we'd be looking at being shared, well, Valvetronic and kick-ass diesels beats Ecotec.

Brad; from what I've been reading about BMW's future plans, there will be plenty of sharing going on between the next 7 and the future 5's and 3's as well. So I'm thinking there's a possible chance the new-gen ZF 8-speed might be working its way down the line, cleaning things up nicely .

(EDIT) I wonder if we'd see it enlarged for Astra duty, Brad. Gotta match the current VXR's output

 

[YSSMAN]

Brad; from what I've been reading about BMW's future plans, there will be plenty of sharing going on between the next 7 and the future 5's and 3's as well. So I'm thinking there's a possible chance the new-gen ZF 8-speed might be working its way down the line, cleaning things up nicely .

One more secret: GM's working on an 8-speed automatic too, so I wonder what the deal will be with that?

(EDIT) I wonder if we'd see it enlarged for Astra duty, Brad. Gotta match the current VXR's output

Which is odd, because they have a perfectly good 2.0L DIG Turbo on the shelf that pushes 260 BHP as well. That, and we're due to get a 1.4L Turbo engine soon as well.

...I don't even think the GM kids on GMI know what to say about it...

 

[forza2.0]

Word is the next ibiza to be released soon will feature a 7 speed auto, seems like all the manufacturers around the world are adding another gear or two to their auto's.