Brake balance again

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Finflash

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I'm still trying to figure out few of the effects here that hasn't been discussed before. If anyone has more observations I would be glad to hear them.

Yesterday I tested few things regarding acceleration out of corners and how brake balance effects the grip level. It definitely does something else too than just change of brake force in front/rear. I've generally though brake balance mostly changes weight distribution but does it effect something else too?

I have been assuming more weight in rear tends to give more grip to the rear and bit better acceleration. Now I just got different results and I'm not sure what causes it. Driving style and load added to front and rear makes a difference too butbnot so much in long corners. In Dragon trail there's a lot of long acceleration periods when you're turning at the same time so it's good testing ground.

Now what I noticed is that acceleration grip gets better when I tweak brake balance to more negative. Should this be other way around? This is when turning at the limit and accelerating just so that I don't get wheelspin. I checked my wheel rotation also and it seems just the same in both cases.

Does the game physics reduce front grip with positive brake balance regardless how you load the car? Like when you push the car and as soon as you get even a slight front tire slide it instantly reduces rear grip? Is this what effects it or what?
 
Firstly, Dragon Trail is probably not a good place to test brake balance, there are only four braking zones and I wouldn’t necessarily say they are heavily reliant on trail braking. I would suggest Suzuka, as nearly every corner requires heavy trail braking right up to the apex and flat out again. A better driver might disagree though.

As for where to set your brake balance, using Gr.3 cars as an example, I find big engine FR cars (viper, corvette, Lexus) require setting forwards, on a trail brake those final few metres you’ll find the car pull into the turn so you’re pointing the correct angle to go flat out again.

I find it varies with MR cars but personally my cars would be set a couple of ticks to the rear, I think the 911 RSR is the only car I have set rearwards to 5, assuming due to the engine position.

Hope that helps.
 
I've begun to notice that if I adjust the bias to the front I'm getting more grip at that end and can turn in quicker. Or at least it feels like that. But heck what do I know.
 
Finflash
I'm still trying to figure out few of the effects here that hasn't been discussed before. If anyone has more observations I would be glad to hear them.

Yesterday I tested few things regarding acceleration out of corners and how brake balance effects the grip level. It definitely does something else too than just change of brake force in front/rear. I've generally though brake balance mostly changes weight distribution but does it effect something else too?

I have been assuming more weight in rear tends to give more grip to the rear and bit better acceleration. Now I just got different results and I'm not sure what causes it. Driving style and load added to front and rear makes a difference too butbnot so much in long corners. In Dragon trail there's a lot of long acceleration periods when you're turning at the same time so it's good testing ground.

Now what I noticed is that acceleration grip gets better when I tweak brake balance to more negative. Should this be other way around? This is when turning at the limit and accelerating just so that I don't get wheelspin. I checked my wheel rotation also and it seems just the same in both cases.

Does the game physics reduce front grip with positive brake balance regardless how you load the car? Like when you push the car and as soon as you get even a slight front tire slide it instantly reduces rear grip? Is this what effects it or what?
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More rear bias will free up grip for the front tires for turn in and consequently can overload the rear and cause rear slip (less grip). This also balances the weight transfer and keeps the car from pitching as much. But based on Newtons laws of motion 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' and that means that with less forward weight transfers (action) there is less rear weight transfers on acceleration (reaction)_

A more forward balanced brake bias will give you more weight transfer to the front end which also means more weight transfers to the rear of the car upon acceleration and you should get more grip to to accelerate with in theory. But this is very dependent on the way you modulate the throttle through the corner. If you stay a bit on the throttle you will balance the weight distribution a bit more evenly and get less pitch

I typically like to put as much front bias as possible while still maintaining a comfortable amount of rotation which is car/corner/track dependent.
 
First of all I was trying to figure out brake balance effects elsewhere than the braking itself as it clearly does effect car in many ways. Regarding braking I have no questions.

John Crellin
More rear bias will free up grip for the front tires for turn in and consequently can overload the rear and cause rear slip (less grip). This also balances the weight transfer and keeps the car from pitching as much. But based on Newtons laws of motion 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' and that means that with less forward weight transfers (action) there is less rear weight transfers on acceleration (reaction)_

A more forward balanced brake bias will give you more weight transfer to the front end which also means more weight transfers to the rear of the car upon acceleration and you should get more grip to to accelerate with in theory. But this is very dependent on the way you modulate the throttle through the corner. If you stay a bit on the throttle you will balance the weight distribution a bit more evenly and get less pitch

I typically like to put as much front bias as possible while still maintaining a comfortable amount of rotation which is car/corner/track dependent.
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This is actually helpful, thanks. I just think adjusting suspension would make this effect not brake balance? I can indeed benefit a little in acceleration whether it's because of this or something else. I'm still not sure what this game does physics wise in some situations.

With some cars when adjusting brake balance, one click too much to one direction makes the car undrivable for me. I wonder if the brake balance thing is just kind of quick tune of the car? Maybe with the physics engine used here, the car behaviour would not change that much or in a realistical way by just changing the brake force in front/rear? So the developers used a quick fix and added mixed tuning change when you change your brake balance? This way it would result in more realistical outcome...

Or I might be overthinking this? :D
 
From my experience, the default setting (0) in GTS is incorrect, it's not 50/50.

In order to get a clear, raw, unfiltered idea about where the break balance ACTUALLY is, turn off ABS. If you do that, you'll quickly notice that on 0 setting, the front tires will lock instantly if applying more than 40% breaking power. This basically behaves like it would in AC and PC2 if the break balance would be set 80-90% to the front, which tells me the setups is flawed and does not represent the actual balance.

After some testing, I managed to get a similar breaking behavior (which means driveable with ABS off) with AC and PC2 when setting the break balance to 3-4 to the rear. In this setting, the breaking characteristic in GTS behaves to 60% front bias in AC/PC2. Which seems to be correct, as this is the ONLY way you can properly drive a car with ABS off without constantly locking the front.
 
barkohba
From my experience, the default setting (0) in GTS is incorrect, it's not 50/50.

In order to get a clear, raw, unfiltered idea about where the break balance ACTUALLY is, turn off ABS. If you do that, you'll quickly notice that on 0 setting, the front tires will lock instantly if applying more than 40% breaking power. This basically behaves like it would in AC and PC2 if the break balance would be set 80-90% to the front, which tells me the setups is flawed and does not represent the actual balance.

After some testing, I managed to get a similar breaking behavior (which means driveable with ABS off) with AC and PC2 when setting the break balance to 3-4 to the rear. In this setting, the breaking characteristic in GTS behaves to 60% front bias in AC/PC2. Which seems to be correct, as this is the ONLY way you can properly drive a car with ABS off without constantly locking the front.[/QUOTE

So it means you feel good racing with aBS off and 3 4 to the rear??? (most of the time?)
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