brake loss

nightcreature84

nightcreature84

Messages
157
i hope in endurance racing that your brakes lose their ability to slow the car. basically that your brakes fade through a race and your brake pedal gets really long. and also have your brakes get hot and possibly lock up if you not careful. but anyway your thoughts on brake fade, if it is in the game.
 
I think Brake fade (longer stoping distance) & rotor warpage (force feedback) should be more evident, as an incentive to purchase higher performing brakes. I'm not sure if I can detect brake fade in GT4:P, but I don't think its there.
 
It would be a good feature. It would be cool if cars without ABS's brakes would lock up.......But not cars with ABS. Would be realistic. Brake fade should be implemented, too. Basically, if you keep using the brakes while they are hot, the stopping power will detrimate, until the brakes cool down. Long term Brake Wear should definately be in.
 
Jalpa
It would be cool if cars without ABS's brakes would lock up.......But not cars with ABS.
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Braking at the limit is extremely difficult with a controller or even the floppy pedals.
 
You would need force feedback pedals to feel the difference between normal brakes and worn ones.
 
That would be cool, if they released a new set of pedals that were compatible with the DFP! :eek:
 
I use to have copper sintered brake pads on the front of my bike to help reduce brake fade. You only really experience brake fade, braking from a high speed for a length of time. The pads get so hot they lose their friction. They do however quickly recover and are fine next time you use them.
The loss of brake performance over an enduro race is more likely due to pad wear than brake fade.

The brakes in GT4P have been completely re-done from GT3 and I like the new system, maybe they have built in brake fade, but as daan says you'd need force feedback pedals to notice it.

@jalpa the cars in prologue lock up their tyres v easily, and you have to release the brake then re apply..its cool! First time you try brake in GT4P, you'll slide off track!!

I've gone back to Kevlar pads as they aren't as "snatchy" as copper. There was a time when I'd get through a set of tyres and pads every month.
 
whatever PD do they should make sure that different cars brake differently.....like the difference between stock steel discs and ceramic discs (like on the SLR :) ) Also they should make older cars, or cars without ABS lockup on hard braking....You could then correct it by simulating ABS be tapping the brake repeatedly......it would be really realitic.....

and PD........for god's sake change the annoying tire screeeeeeching...that sounds rubbish and the same for every car.....

Robin :D
 
robin2223
whatever PD do they should make sure that different cars brake differently.....like the difference between stock steel discs and ceramic discs (like on the SLR :) ) Also they should make older cars, or cars without ABS lockup on hard braking....You could then correct it by simulating ABS be tapping the brake repeatedly......it would be really realitic.....

and PD........for god's sake change the annoying tire screeeeeeching...that sounds rubbish and the same for every car.....

Robin :D
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some good points there... i agree that some sort of noticable difference in brakes b/w cars and upgrades would be a nice touch.

as for the tire screeching... apparently the new builds of GT4 have greatly improved the sound... from some of the videos i saw here (even though the WMV sound was crappy overall in terms of quality) it did seem like an improvement.
 
nightcreature84
i hope in endurance racing that your brakes lose their ability to slow the car. basically that your brakes fade through a race and your brake pedal gets really long. and also have your brakes get hot and possibly lock up if you not careful. but anyway your thoughts on brake fade, if it is in the game.
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That would be so bad ass man!
 
Dovesniper711
That would be so bad ass man!
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i know thats why i hope its in the game, i've been a big fan of roadracing since 1993. F1 started my love and i've been a shumi fan since and when he joined ferrari i was excited. but anyway in all or roadracing you hear them talk about brake fade, like at the canadian GP. and even in nascar when they visit walkins glen. also, the true test of brakes, at lemans where they actually change brake pads during a race. so why not put it into the most realistic driving simulator.
 
nightcreature84
i know thats why i hope its in the game, i've been a big fan of roadracing since 1993. F1 started my love and i've been a shumi fan since and when he joined ferrari i was excited. but anyway in all or roadracing you hear them talk about brake fade, like at the canadian GP. and even in nascar when they visit walkins glen. also, the true test of brakes, at lemans where they actually change brake pads during a race. so why not put it into the most realistic driving simulator.
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Yes and on that note id love for this to hapen as well in the game.
Running out of Fuel
Blowing Tires
ANd evan engine failure!

Make it so much fun and add 110% more stratgie to a race would you say, or am I tlaking crazy.
 
I'm not so sure about brake wear. I'll be happy with (proper) lockable brakes but not so much so with brake wear. Maybe in GT5 it would be better suited.
 
Yeah... that's nice dude, stick to the topic, we have a number of places on failures, pit stops, strategy, etc.

Brake fade is generally either a problem with the brakes or a wearing of the pads, as mentioned. However there are times when the brakes simply overheat to the point they combust, as happened to a Ferrari at Le Mans and Juan Pablo Montoya in Spain. The problem is generally the result of having too small brake ducts, hence why teams run the largest ducts available at tracks like Canada and Italy. However, if you've got proper racing brakes (which are carbon-carbon, a combination as yet unmentioned in this thread), then you shouldn't actually experience a problem. Brake pedals do sometimes go long (Rubens in Australia) but nothing overtly extreme should happen. Increased braking distance would be quite nice, and I hear the rest of the enhancements in terms turning and braking are far more realistic. I can also testify that the first time I launched into a hairpin in GT4P in a NSX at Tskuba (sp?), I went sailing off into the gravel trap, much to my embarassment.
 
Don't know how brake loss could be implemented successfully, not to say it wouldn't be a fantastic challenge. Personally I just wish something could be done in the graphic department so that glowing brakes don't fade as quickly, it'd be pretty sweet to see the cars sporting the hot brakes at the end of a 10-15 lap race. I'm not saying the game has to be realistic at how soon the discs start glowing, but at how long it takes for them to cool and fade. Just a thought.
 
I think it's very possible, but difficult, naturally. But, would PD really put it in the game, even if it was easily possible?

It depends on what kind of brake fade you're talking about. The kind of brake fade from using the breaks to long, in one particular stop. Or, the kind of brake fade when your breaks get to old, and worn. How about both?

Well, I see a problem with the firts type. Inorder to allow brake fade of this type, PD would have to make a lot of room in the brake touch sensitivity of the DS2 buttons for the fade to exist. When this type of brake fade occurs, it takes a lot more brake pressure to counter balance it. Unless you want to talk about total brake failure, which would be a stupid idea. This could make braking under normal conditions difficult. Now that most of us know, that it takes a lot more time to slow down a vehicle properly in GT4, and how you can enter a slide due to too much break pressure, I don't see how PD could actually make this kind of brake fade possible.

For the second type, I'll all for it, and it could easily be implemented into the game play. Purchasing new brakes every couple races, or between races, sounds like a fine idea to me. It makes the game a little more real. Just like how the oil change feature of GT3 made it feel more like a true car simulation.

Brake fade sounds like a interesting idea for GT4. But, if it doesn't happen, I wont cry about it.
 
See this is the thing, they either keep it simple to attract the casual gamer, or they complicate it so it turns away more.

I suppose you could buy different brakepad/disk/rotor etc depending on the race type, but then people would probably get confused. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
 
MistaY
See this is the thing, they either keep it simple to attract the casual gamer, or they complicate it so it turns away more.

I suppose you could buy different brakepad/disk/rotor etc depending on the race type, but then people would probably get confused. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
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We can already buy different brakes if we want, but I do have the feeling it's going to get more involved in the next game. Plus, the purpose of GT4p was to let first-timers get a more simple first look at the world of the game series GT. So, I don't think GT4 is being made "simple" at all. I think it is being made geared towards the more experience GT gamers.
 
Solid Lifters
We can already buy different brakes if we want, but I do have the feeling it's going to get more involved in the next game. Plus, the purpose of GT4p was to let first-timers get a more simple first look at the world of the game series GT. So, I don't think GT4 is being made "simple" at all. I think it is being made geared towards the more experience GT gamers.
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I don't think that's strictly true, if it was you'd probably have an American Prologue. Well I know it's not going to be made simple, but it's not going to be made on the level of PC games. Although you are right about it getting more complex, because now the wheels weight is taken into account so we should see some slightly more complex elements added.
 
I don't think there is a need for a US Prologue. I think the gamers here in the US are going to buy it, and adapt to it, regardless of the games difficulties, and PD knows this. So, why the need for a US Prologue game? Plus, PD really doesn't care for Americans anyway. That part is very obvious.
 
If we can buy different brakes, and they make a performance difference, that means there's code in place to take brake performance into account. So brake fade is technically possible. Something true purists seem to have overlooked is the way to counteract this problem - ducting. Gotta race 90 laps around Laguna in the bright afternoon sun? Biggest ducts you can find. 1 lap dash around SSR5 Wet at night? Probably have the things close to completely closed to try and generate some temperature. Pick the wrong ducts, performance suffers. However then you'd have to throw in environmental variables for heat or just have a different value for each circuit with respect to brake performance. Gets complex.
 
Tacet_Blue
@jalpa the cars in prologue lock up their tyres v easily, and you have to release the brake then re apply..its cool! First time you try brake in GT4P, you'll slide off track!!
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Tacet, you must have a very positive fantasy, some cars indeed turn less well while braking, but they still turn in, and in a replay I never saw one locked wheel. Did you?
 
I wasn't talking about watching them in replay, you can certainly hear them, and if you release the brake and re apply it you stop quicker. :)

...only the back wheels actually stop rotating when you pull the e-brake
 
Tacet_Blue
...only the back wheels actually stop rotating when you pull the e-brake
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Yes, I noticed that too. :) Therefore I wonder if the brake lock that seems to happen, really is meant to be lock. In that case I'd say that PD would have made it visible in the replay too.
 
Well now you've metioned it, a car shouldn't really be able to steer if the front wheels are locked...

And in replays it would be nice to see a front wheel stop and throw up a puff of white smoke. PD's own staff must be able to spot these things too. :confused:
 
Just to be perfectly clear, what I meant by fade was how the brakes cool and fade visually, like how they stop glowing orange-red after a couple seconds. In F1, Le Mans, or sometimes even in the WRC, you must have seen the discs inside the tires glowing as they go by a camera. All I'm saying is maybe they could remain lit up longer than they do in GT3, a purely cosmetic suggestion but nobody can say it wouldn't look great, just picture it.

Brakes aging (and maybe even screeching a bit as they age) would however be pretty damn cool too.
 
The only problem is (and don't get me wrong cos I love the disc brake glow) is that stock cars with stock brakes just don't glow like that! hell some don't even have back disc's (drums) even under hard braking.....all they would do is burn in blue rings onto the disk eventually distroying them.....only high performance brakes glow.

From a cosmetic point of view they look amazing.....but I doubt a vitz's disc's light up when you brake hard! They will get hot, but not that hot.

So.....either go for realism or visuals.....if they do keep disc glow for all cars...then make it last longer as has been said......but if they don't then it would be somewhat annoying to not see them light up on a stock car.......but it would be realistic......

what do you think???

Robin ;)
 
Well yeah, that too. It chould be done so that it happens only on race cars (the game will know how to identify them) GTP/LMP cars, WRC cars, JGTC, etc. If you want to get even more technical, then have the game allow heavily modified cars with sport brakes installed the same feature (beats me how 'high performance' sports brakes are though)

Of course when it gets down to it, how fast you're going and how hard/long you brake will have to take part, as it did in GT3.

I'd say that the best chances of seeing the discs on the Vitz light up would be at the first turn of the Complex String with a completely modded RS 1.5, and I'm not even sure about that.
 
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