Brake pedal

[zjn]

A few days ago I read in a post that braking muscle memory is more pressure-based than position-based. I would like to understand this concept better.

On my G29 I find the brake pedal soft to almost the bottom and then suddenly very hard, so much so that I set Gt7 to give me 100% braking when I start to feel the pedal hard.

The post gave me pause for thought.

I brake using pretty much only ankle rotation, without using my leg.

Using the leg gives me the impression that it is a slower movement, as well as more tiring, and I imagine it to be less effective.

How do you guys do it?

 

[TumeK5]

I push the pedal with my foot to brake.

 

[super_gt]

I always drive with ABS Off, using 75kg load cell brake pedal with very short 20mm travel.

 

[FPV MIC]

A few days ago I read in a post that braking muscle memory is more pressure-based than position-based. I would like to understand this concept better.

On my G29 I find the brake pedal soft to almost the bottom and then suddenly very hard, so much so that I set Gt7 to give me 100% braking when I start to feel the pedal hard.

The post gave me pause for thought.

I brake using pretty much only ankle rotation, without using my leg.

Using the leg gives me the impression that it is a slower movement, as well as more tiring, and I imagine it to be less effective.

How do you guys do it?

You really need to have a load cell based brake pedal for the best chance at using muscle memory. Most lower end brake setups are like you described as soft and are based on the brake pedal position rather than the force used to press the brake pedal like the higher quality ones.

Load cell based ones are far more realistic as the work similar to a real car, i.e. pressure sensitive.

 

[Whookid570]

You also saying ankle rotation makes me think you are right foot for braking. Use your right foot for gas. And left foot for braking.

 

[TheNormsk]

As one that recently transition from the standard G29 to one upgraded with the Ricmotech load-cell (it may have been my post you were reading) this is what I found:

For the original pedal, the braking action though my foot was a rotation through my ankle. I would initially rotate my ankle to get more pedal travel and hence braking force until you hit the rubber. Then I would start to transition from ankle rotation to pushing (hence pressure) to push through to the last 100% brake pressure.

That transition did not feel great and was hard to judge making braking inconsistent. I then upgraded the spring to be more progressive and modified the bumper to make that more progressive. This felt better but was still a transitional leg movement from ankle rotation to pushing. Again as you are performing two different actions with your leg, consistency was hard.

Now with the Ricmotech load cell the brake pedal barely moves. There is still a (minor) amount of ankle rotation as I transition from resting to braking but that rotation is not really about braking now. As soon as you feel resistance in the pedal you are now into pushing with your leg and applying braking force to the car. The push and application of pressure on the pedal is everything you do to brake the car. The initial ankle rotation to braking is so slight it is almost instantaneous and it does not factor into the feel. In fact I would not have realized this was even happening until I sat here and thought about the process. Once you are using leg pressure alone it be more much easier to control your braking.

Where I have found it to improve my lap times in that as you start to apply pressure, I've tuned my settings so a "comfortable" pressure is only about 50-60% braking. I then "over push" my leg to get to 100%. What this means for the car is that when I first hit the brakes to my comfy point, weight shifts to the front allowing the tires to grip while not over braking. Then, within fractions of a second, I push to 100%, as the tires have now already gripped, the braking will come on strong, while not sliding. If you go 0 to 100 in one step then you are apt to lock up and slide out. With the load cell, while you can do that, I more consistently apply the brakes in a sine wave so they progressively get stronger until I hit max, and then progressively get weaker as I let off. Trail braking is much easier. The application of leg pressure to do this feels much more natural (it's like driving a real car) than the ankle rotation of the original pedal.

 

[zjn]

Thanks everyone for the answers

I always drive with ABS Off, using 75kg load cell brake pedal with very short 20mm travel.

wow, 75Kg, it's a ton (see my concern later)!

Load cell based ones are far more realistic as the work similar to a real car, i.e. pressure sensitive.

I'm not necessarely looking for realism as first objective, but I'm happy to have it as a side product

You also saying ankle rotation makes me think you are right foot for braking. Use your right foot for gas. And left foot for braking.

No, I'm braking with the left. Rotation meaning that the heel is staying in concact with the floor of the device, the left foot rotates on the ankle to generate pedal pressure.

As one that recently transition from the standard G29 to one upgraded with the Ricmotech load-cell (it may have been my post you were reading) this is what I found:

For the original pedal, the braking action though my foot was a rotation through my ankle. I would initially rotate my ankle to get more pedal travel and hence braking force until you hit the rubber. Then I would start to transition from ankle rotation to pushing (hence pressure) to push through to the last 100% brake pressure.

...

I took a look at Ricmotech load-cell, It's very interesting but very out of budget for me.
I found this on the net 3DRap, it for sure cheaper, and probably for sure a smaller upgrade.
Even with this though, I concerned with the figures shown below.
With the standard G29 you reach a max load of 10.4Kg. So 10,4Kg in the zone that I on purpose decided not to use (remember my 100% happens as soon as I start feeling a harder pedal response).
3DRap for console stuff (blue line) requires more than the original (orange line) since the beginning, to double it at the end of the braking range.
I'm wondering how my leg will handle it. I still want to enjoy the game, not having a gym session.

 

[morfei1]

TrueBrake is amazing for the G29, also their TruePedal for the accelerator combined with the magnetic shifter mod, completely transforms G29.

 

[AmyUD06]

You also saying ankle rotation makes me think you are right foot for braking. Use your right foot for gas. And left foot for braking.

How to say you've never driven a real car without saying you've never driven a real car.

 

[TheNormsk]

I found this on the net 3DRap, it for sure cheaper, and probably for sure a smaller upgrade.
Even with this though, I concerned with the figures shown below.
With the standard G29 you reach a max load of 10.4Kg. So 10,4Kg in the zone that I on purpose decided not to use (remember my 100% happens as soon as I start feeling a harder pedal response).
3DRap for console stuff (blue line) requires more than the original (orange line) since the beginning, to double it at the end of the braking range.
I'm wondering how my leg will handle it. I still want to enjoy the game, not having a gym session.

View attachment 1234122

Careful if you order the 3DRap through Amazon. I ordered one, supposedly from 3DRap yet what I received didn't match the pictures and looked like one of those generic ones for 1/3rd the cost. I returned it.

 

[zjn]

I did't apply any HW change by now, but I did changed the upper limit configuration in GT7.
Before my 100% Brake was reached at 60% pedal travel, now at 80%, where I see the resistence coming from the rubber of my G29.

It was actually an improvement, I can better understand what I'm doing the the foot recognising the pedal resistence.
It still have to get used to it. Sometimes I "forget" to hard push the pedal having maybe just a 90% of braking power, but I definetly see the potential of braking by pressure over braking by position.

I want to give myself some more time to figure out a good balance between cost and rewards, but will much probably do some upgrade to the brake pedal of the G29